You know it's not your day when...

[Tonybro]

Part #1

Yesterday, me and my better half decided to try somewhere different so looked at Delamere Forest in Cheshire.

I'd heard good things and seen a bit of footage on YT that made it look reasonable...

We expected it to be busy and it was but not a problem as it was mainly walkers and young families.

Site is owned and operated by Forest England, the same as Gisburn near me, so I thought we'd have great trail markings and maps.

How wrong was I? Lovely facilities though, visitor centre, bike hire, toilets, etc but no clear markings of where trails are or start!

To top it off, we went to bike hire and just outside was a board with a rudimentary map so we knew we could buy a map in the shop and duly did for £2 to find it was the same rudimentary map on the fu**ing board outside! What a rip-off...

Tried finding the trails, most posts were AFTER junctions not at them FFS...

Didn't find anything interesting as the marked trails were dual use and full of kids, dogs (not on leads) even though it states they should be.

Gave up after 6.5 Miles to then get charged £8 for fu**ING parking for 2 and a bit hours!

Part #2

Got home so went up to Rivington\Winter Hill. Glorious day.

Watched the paragliders playing at the top and thought I'd do the gnarly rutted drop into Belmont as conditions were great.

2/3 of the way down, punctured the rear somehow!

I don't carry spare tubes there as at most I'm only a few miles from the car, so a walk back it was. Nice walk too...

Just not my day! ?

 

[RustyMTB]

Three quid & a bit of tape, Tony.

 

[Tonybro]

To be honest by the time I've sorted it I can usually be back at the car there so only bother if it is a big or group ride...

Thinking of trying tubeless... ?

 

[RustyMTB]

I've found a deep dislike of riding with a rucksack has made me all kinds of creative when it comes to secreting tools & spares around the bike. The handlebar tubes are stuffed to the gunnels with anti walk of shame devices. ?

 

[Doomanic]

I have no idea why people are still using tubes these days... ?‍

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I have no idea why people are still using tubes these days... ?‍

completely concur. Total game changer and so easy to do

 

[Doomanic]

I’d expect a new bike to come set up TL these days.

 

[RustyMTB]

TL isn't infallible, a tube is a cheap get out of jail card. No reason not to carry one imo.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

If it didn’t I’d ask the shop did it out the showroom tbh

 

[flash]

I carry a Tubilito. Stupidly expensive but I can fit it under the saddle on my bike. You'd have to look for it to see it. Mount a CO2 cartridge next to the water bottle and a OneUp tool in the headset and you can get out of almost anything.

More often than not though I end up using my tools to fix some other guys bike who was too lazy to sort out their own.

#beselfprepared

Gordon

 

[The Hodge]

I’d expect a new bike to come set up TL these days.

You would think they would ..but its another way for the shop to extract more cash from your pocket ..( valves , sealant & labour )

 

[Gary]

its another way for the shop to extract more cash from your pocket ..

*sigh*

( valves , sealant & labour )

All of which cost the shop money.

It's not some sort of conspiracy mate. You seem to have completely misunderstood how high street retail business works.

 

[Peaky Rider]

You would think they would ..but its another way for the shop to extract more cash from your pocket ..( valves , sealant & labour )

The last few new bikes I've had have all come with tubeless valves in the accessory bag. Sealant is around £20 but will do or replenish many wheels and as for labour, you really do need to learn how to do it yourself, it's not that difficult.

I know it's not quite the case at the moment as bikes are flying off the shelves, but I can't imagine sealant likes lying in a puddle at the bottom of the tyre for any prolonged periods whereas a tube is less temperamental.

 

[The Hodge]

*sigh*
All of which cost the shop money.

It's not some sort of conspiracy mate. You seem to have completely misunderstood how high street retail business works.

That's funny Gary ..as I spent over 20 years selling into the High Street both as a Sales Rep ( Findus Frozen Food ) Area Manager Pic -A -Tape (Record Industry) then as one of four Regional Sales Managers covering the North of England & Eastern Scotland for the same company ..Im well aware how High Street retail works ...so if a bike shop can get away with putting a £3.00 tube in a tyre .."because that is how it comes" and then charge for a "tubeless service" then that is exactly what they will do to maximise their profits ..
I'm not that useless that I can't set up a tubeless tyre ..and have done many times ..and I do know that there is a cost involved but if you are trying to tell me that the shop doesn't make a profit from doing this for you..then sorry but I don't believe you ..?

 

[Gary]

WTF has your Findus crispy pancake selling experience got to do with a bike shop choosing not to give away an hours labour (£40) a set of valves (£15 trade +vat) and 240ml of sealant (£12+vat) for free? Nevermind the possible inconvenience of other repairs having to be put back in a busy workshop.

so if a bike shop can get away with putting a £3.00 tube in a tyre .."because that is how it comes" and then charge for a "tubeless service" then that is exactly what they will do to maximise their profits ..

FYI complete bikes come with tubes and tyres installed from the dist/supplier.
And No. Many bike shops will waive the cost of a tubeless set up completely (or do it at reduced cost) on the sale of a new bike. They're not actually at liberty to though.

 

[Gary]

I do know that there is a cost involved but if you are trying to tell me that the shop doesn't make a profit from doing this for you..then sorry but I don't believe you ..

By even just reducing the charge to the customer to cost of parts alone and waiving the labour will reduce the shop's profit on the bike. For someone with 20+ years experience in retail you do seem to have somehow failed to understand the concept of running costs and overheads.

 

[The Hodge]

If you take the time to get your head out of your arse Gary ..and actually read and understand what I've written instead of arguing over a point that I'm in complete agreement with ..I'm not expecting it to be done at no cost ..what I am saying is that some ( maybe not all bike shops ) will see it as way to sell the concept as an add on ..and make a profit on it..and that is after all why any business exists ..please don't try & preach what I may or may not know about sales / retailing ..
I've probably forgotten more than you actually know ?

 

[Gary]

Stop complaining then.

 

[The Hodge]

Stop complaining then.

Show me where..

 

[Gary]

Your very first contribution to the thread

 

[Deleted member 7464]

I see what you are saying,but I do understand where Gary is coming from.to me a bike shop is like a car dealer,they will sell you the bike/car as they receive them from the manufacturer.,any extras you want doing to it after that you have to pay for.
Just because a vehicle/bike can have an extra done to it doesn't mean it should be applied free.
I ain't a dealer of bikes or cars so I have nowt to gain from my comments,it's just how I see it.

 

[The Hodge]

Sorry but that wasn't a complaint ..I was replying to a comment made by Doomanic and from the point of view that a shop could actually charge for an additional service (parts & labour ) ..although I grant you that I didn't make that absolutely clear .
As it happens when I bought my bike at the end of October I paid for them to set it up tubeless ..and was happy to do so ..
Can we call this a draw and move on..

 

[The Hodge]

I see what you are saying,but I do understand where Gary is coming from.to me a bike shop is like a car dealer,they will sell you the bike/car as they receive them from the manufacturer.,any extras you want doing to it after that you have to pay for.
Just because a vehicle/bike can have an extra done to it doesn't mean it should be applied free.
I ain't a dealer of bikes or cars so I have nowt to gain from my comments,it's just how I see it.

Which is what I've been saying ?

 

[fenwick458]

so whats the issue here? all bike shops will convert your bike to tubeless (for a fee) if you ask them too.
if you want the brands to actually supply bikes with sealant already in, well that sounds like a terrible idea. for a bike sat still on the showroom floor or in a box, the sealant is just going to dry out. ever had to clean off dried on tubeless sealant from the inside of a tyre and rim? takes twice as long as converting a new tyre to tubeless....

 

[The Hodge]

I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about brands setting bikes up tubeless..and as for your other point I think I've answered that already ( and agree)..bike shops will set your bike up tubeless for a fee..so no issue at all mate..

 

[Gary]

Glad you've cleared that up Hodge. Thanks.
I've no idea what bike shops any of you here have experience of but I read far too many comments on here from folk quick to jump to the conclusion that bike shops just do all they can to maximise profit or worse still are out to rip them off. Which IME is just not the case in any decent LBS.

 

[flash]

so whats the issue here? all bike shops will convert your bike to tubeless (for a fee) if you ask them too.
if you want the brands to actually supply bikes with sealant already in, well that sounds like a terrible idea. for a bike sat still on the showroom floor or in a box, the sealant is just going to dry out. ever had to clean off dried on tubeless sealant from the inside of a tyre and rim? takes twice as long as converting a new tyre to tubeless....

I thought that bikes supplied tubeless just had the tyres on the bead and tubeless valves in. The the store/customer squirted the supplied sealant through the valve during set up. No harder than pumping up a tyre, really. The reason they don't all do this is they know that *we* are probably 10% of the market. 90% don't even lube their chain. It makes sense to set a bike up with tubes as there's no maintenence required. I think a few of the more top end brands, where their customers are *riders* supply bikes tubeless ready. But for the bigger brands it'll be an option.

The shop I bought my Merida e-160 actually asked me if I was riding tubeless when I bought the bike, which I appreciated. They didn't charge me the 20 mins to do it but they did keep the tubes.

Gordon

 

[fenwick458]

the problem is "tubeless ready" isn't an exact standard. eg, I bought a bike in 2017 that was sold as "tubeless ready", and I had to buy valves, apply rim tape, and add sealant. this took ages with a track pump btw, damn floppy walled snakeskin tyres were hard to seat and the sidewalls were porous too.
2019 and I bought another bike, this time I was told it was definitely tubeless ready and I just had to add valves and sealant. well I tried that, and they just kept going flat. after a few days of re-inflating them, I got some soapy water on them only to discover air seeping out of the spoke nipples, which would imply that it's not tubeless rim tape. I just changed the rim tape and that was is sorted, but when I was in the LBS I mentioned it, to which they said, "oh yeah, you still have to change the rim tape, it's just "ready to do that and the tyres are tubeless ready"
so by that same logic, my old 26" wheeled steel framed hardtail bike from the 90's that is in my parents shed still is actually "tubeless ready" also. you just have to be "ready" to put an entirely new wheelset on it first
however, my current bike (2021 Orbea Wild FS) was defo tubeless ready. it even came with the valves, just needed to remove tubes, fit valves, add sealant. infact the first wheel, I just fitted the valve and blew it up in 30 secs, then left it overnight as I got distracted with something and the next day it had still held the pressure without sealant.

 

[Gary]

I thought that bikes supplied tubeless just had the tyres on the bead and tubeless valves in.

Generally
99.9% of bikes are assembled proir to shipping with rim strips, tubes and tyres fitted to its wheelset.
Some higher end bikes come with tubeless valves included in the box.
The occasional very high end bike comes with tubeless valves and a small bottle (or 2) of sealant.
a custom build (any bike built to customers exact spec from frame up) will generally be sold tubeless if specified by the customer for no extra labour charge. but will include the cost of valves, sealant and rimstrips if required.

 

[Bobj183]

WTF has your Findus crispy pancake selling experience got to do with a bike shop choosing not to give away an hours labour (£40) a set of valves (£15 trade +vat) and 240ml of sealant (£12+vat) for free? Nevermind the possible inconvenience of other repairs having to be put back in a busy workshop.


FYI complete bikes come with tubes and tyres installed from the dist/supplier.
And No. Many bike shops will waive the cost of a tubeless set up completely (or do it at reduced cost) on the sale of a new bike. They're not actually at liberty to though.

That's right; my LBS will convert your new bike to tubeless at no extra cost as long as it's "tubeless ready" to start with. I think many new "tubeless ready" bikes come with valves in the accessory pack these days. If yours didn't they're probably in the mechanics tool box.