Yamaha PW-X2 or Bosch Gen 4 with new software upgrade?

[HinduKush]

Found a great deal on a new 2020 Haibike All Mountain 2.0 with the PW-X2 motor. I'm a big guy, 105 Kg, who plans on carrying some kit on my back for overnight trips in the back county of the Rocky Mountains and the Utah desert. I like the PW-X2 because it now apparently works well at a high cadence, decouples very well and is very reliable; reliability is huge here. This will be my first foray into the e mtb world. Do the new software changes to the Bosch motor now make it a better option or should I stick with my original inclination to go with the Yamaha?

 

[Jackware]

I'm looking at the same bike as it's light for an 'normal' FS non carbon framed ebike (ie under 24kg) and the ability to easily swap the battery allows long routes to be completed if you can budget for a spare battery and something like the Evoc Ebike rucksack. I'm a fan of the Yamaha motors and I've had no issues with my PW-X powered bike even though it's been though various muddy wet UK winter rides, and my other half's Haibike Hardlife has been faultless since new 4 years ago.

 

[HinduKush]

Thanks for the response. I'm waiting for the seller to give me a best and final on both the bike and a spare battery.

 

[levindown]

Found a great deal on a new 2020 Haibike All Mountain 2.0 with the PW-X2 motor. I'm a big guy, 105 Kg, who plans on carrying some kit on my back for overnight trips in the back county of the Rocky Mountains and the Utah desert. I like the PW-X2 because it now apparently works well at a high cadence, decouples very well and is very reliable; reliability is huge here. This will be my first foray into the e mtb world. Do the new software changes to the Bosch motor now make it a better option or should I stick with my original inclination to go with the Yamaha?

I have had the same bike (All Mtn 2.0) since March and I am just a bit heavier than you. Been pleased with bike and motor. The motor is certainly more powerful than the previous 4-year old Yamaha I had, which was faultless in nearly four years. Like the older motor, I never seem to get any appreciable extra power from the top power settings. This may be because I'm doing it wrong of course—too low a cadence perhaps? However, there is plenty of assistance available even in Standard.

Also see my post about auto mode: Yamaha Auto Mode. - EMTB Forums

 

[HinduKush]

Levindown, Thanks for the response. I thought the PW-X2 was supposed to have better response than the PW-X at higher cadence levels while maintaining excellent power at a lower cadence. Sounds like that might not be the case in your situation.

 

[Jackware]

In my experience of the PW-X, you can definitely feel the extra 10nm of assist in the top mode, you still have to be in the correct gear and using a suitable cadence, ie 70-90ish

 

[Jackware]

I have had the same bike (All Mtn 2.0) since March and I am just a bit heavier than you. Been pleased with bike and motor. The motor is certainly more powerful than the previous 4-year old Yamaha I had, which was faultless in nearly four years. Like the older motor, I never seem to get any appreciable extra power from the top power settings. This may be because I'm doing it wrong of course—too low a cadence perhaps? However, there is plenty of assistance available even in Standard.

Also see my post about auto mode: Yamaha Auto Mode. - EMTB Forums

Sorry to divert the topic but what size is your bike and what is the length of the dropper post's drop please?

 

[levindown]

Sorry to divert the topic but what size is your bike and what is the length of the dropper post's drop please?

13cm drop and frame size is 47cm.

As to the power cadence issue. I am a low cadence pedaller, hence why I went for a Yamaha on the old bike. I have tried a higher cadence and there is no hint of a drop-off in power that I can feel, so sounds as if they have done what they say they have. My issue is that I only notice a small difference from the maximum power output I can achieve in Standard to that in the next one up (High?), and no difference at all in Extra (if that's what's it's called). I suspect that this is just down to my style of low-cadence pedalling than any fault in the motor! The old Yamaha display had a sort of power meter on the left, but the new one doesn't, so it has to be down to feel.

 

[Jackware]

Thanks for the measurements. I agree with your conclusion as I hate spinning as well but it feels more powerful at a higher cadence. I'm guessing the PW-X2 curve doesn't drop as quickly as the PW-X shown in this graph from Specialized;

 

[levindown]

Thanks for the measurements. I agree with your conclusion as I hate spinning as well but it feels more powerful at a higher cadence. I'm guessing the PW-X2 curve doesn't drop as quickly as the PW-X shown in this graph from Specialized;

There are so many variables: weight, terrain, pedalling style, tyre pressure etc. so everyone is going to experience things differently. I'm happy anyway!

 

[Softsand]

Thanks for the measurements. I agree with your conclusion as I hate spinning as well but it feels more powerful at a higher cadence. I'm guessing the PW-X2 curve doesn't drop as quickly as the PW-X shown in this graph from Specialized; View attachment 35228

Increased cadence support was a big improvement in the new model. New Yamaha 2020 ebike motors – PW-X2 and our first ride impressions | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[knut7]

Seen my review of the PW-X2? I haven't compared it directly to the PW-X, but I believe I mention it in the vid.

 

[Jackware]

Thanks Knut - subscribed

 

[HinduKush]

Knut7, I did see this review and enjoyed it. Your reviews are very informative and I always look forward to watching them. Looking forward to your review on the software upgrade for the Bosch Gen4 motor.

 

[knut7]

Knut7, I did see this review and enjoyed it. Your reviews are very informative and I always look forward to watching them. Looking forward to your review on the software upgrade for the Bosch Gen4 motor.

Thanks! I have to wait a bit before doing the upgrade, wanna do a really through comparison of before and after. So it could be a few weeks before I've got anything.

 

[Akemtb]

3 year warranty with Yamaha vs 2 for Bosch, that's huge! If your Bosch fails good luck on a replacement, I've been waiting 9 weeks for mine. BTY, bought a Haibike full fatsix 10.0 and love the Yamaha but only have about 200 miles on it. RIDE ON!

 

[jerryx2000]

Hi guys I am about to buy the Allmtn 2.0. Are you guys still happy with it? Any problems I have to be aware of?

 

[HinduKush]

No issues although I would have hoped if Bosch could get 15 more Nm of torque out of a firmware upgrade that Yamaha could have gotten some with an upgrade to theirs. Did they just get it right the first time so they didn't need the upgrade? Not really sure if it needs it though. My problem isn't power getting up the steepest climbs; it's keeping the front wheel down or the rear wheel from breaking loose. I do have a problem with the display/control being as exposed as it is. Busted up a controller button on a fall. Can still shift assist levels but have to make a very conscious effort to hit the micro switch's button.

 

[levindown]

No real issues here either. Been happy with bike and motor. Have noticed that I am running through the battery a lot more recently, but I think that is probably down to the cold and dragging nobbly tyres through endless mud.

I agree with @HinduKush that the motor is powerful enough, unless one is trying insane climbs. More power is just going to run down the battery quicker!

 

[Hugh-Jazz]

No issues although I would have hoped if Bosch could get 15 more Nm of torque out of a firmware upgrade that Yamaha could have gotten some with an upgrade to theirs. Did they just get it right the first time so they didn't need the upgrade? Not really sure if it needs it though. My problem isn't power getting up the steepest climbs; it's keeping the front wheel down or the rear wheel from breaking loose. I do have a problem with the display/control being as exposed as it is. Busted up a controller button on a fall. Can still shift assist levels but have to make a very conscious effort to hit the micro switch's button.

The Yamaha buttons are way too sensitive, very easy to go up/down two modes on a single touch. They need to add a defined click like Shimano, their buttons work correctly. The PW-X2 is a great motor that pulls strongly on hills but is very controllable at the same time. I wish that I was able to adjust the modes, like with Shimano or Specialized, since the jump from ECO to STD is way too much. I haven't had trouble keeping the front wheel down, but I prefer STD over HIGH for that reason.

 

[jerryx2000]

got a super deal for 2300€.- in a bike shop ;-)

 

[HinduKush]

Excellent deal. New?

 

[jerryx2000]

Excellent deal. New?

its 10 months old. A rental from a bike shop with guaranty. I have ridden over 100km now. No issues at all. Love the 2.8 Maxxis, The MT520 brakes & the battery consumption.

 

[HinduKush]

 

[motox155]

I wish that I was able to adjust the modes, like with Shimano or Specialized, since the jump from ECO to STD is way too much.

Exactly. I've been riding a new Yamaha YDX Moro. Great bike, very happy with it but I agree with this issue. Most of my rides are a mixture of Eco and Std. I get good battery life from that (2-3 hrs, 3000-4000 ft climbing) and a decent workout. But I agree, Eco needs a little more juice, way too big a jump to Std. And the difference between Std and High is much less. If I could I would bump up Eco 5-10% and reduce Std 5-10%. That would be perfect for a long ride. If you just want to do a quick ride with your buddies put it MTN mode. It eats up the battery much quicker, but it puts out some real power!

 

[rokyluk]

Found a great deal on a new 2020 Haibike All Mountain 2.0 with the PW-X2 motor. I'm a big guy, 105 Kg, who plans on carrying some kit on my back for overnight trips in the back county of the Rocky Mountains and the Utah desert. I like the PW-X2 because it now apparently works well at a high cadence, decouples very well and is very reliable; reliability is huge here. This will be my first foray into the e mtb world. Do the new software changes to the Bosch motor now make it a better option or should I stick with my original inclination to go with the Yamaha?

max allowed weight with rider + bike is 120kg

 

[jerryx2000]

Hi mates this is my long term review of the Haibike 2.0 with the PWX2. I owned a Kawasaki ZX6R, an Aprilia 1100 Tuono & a Street Triple and have sold them for this bike. This eBike is a beast.