Used Bike Advice Please

[Cabby.]

How much is a mandraulic Cube to the same spec?

I've no idea but guess it's no where near 4 grand.

 

[Doomanic]

And that's the point being made. It's not snobbery, it's fact. There is a definite eBike tax by the manufacturers; the extra parts don't make up all the difference in price and the best way to get good spec at sensible money is to buy a direct sales bike.

 

[Drop_the_Mike]

For the Cannondale Moterra NEO 3, 2020 model - it says the motor is 500w.
Anyone know if it's possible to custom build with their 625w that comes in NEO 1 & 2?

 

[R120]

I think a lot of people buy bikes with components that are far more capable than what they need (me included).

We are lucky enough that nowadays mid range components are so good that you really dont need to spend a fortune to get a good quality ride, wherever you buy the bike from.

 

[Cabby.]

I think a lot of people buy bikes with components that are far more capable than what they need (me included).

We are lucky enough that nowadays mid range components are so good that you really dont need to spend a fortune to get a good quality ride, wherever you buy the bike from.

Agree 100% yet either in this topic or another someone was saying you just get "basic" suspension as if it's some £100 crap bike from Halfrauds on a four grand bike which is just not the case.

 

[Gary]

There is a definite eBike tax by the manufacturers

where are you seeing this Dom?
Bear in mind an Ebike motor system (using shimano E8000 for eg). consisting of motor, cranks, battery, charger, controller/display, switches and sensors costs more than £2200* separately.
Subtract that from most Eebs and go and look at the same manufacturers similarly spec'd normal bike and I don't think you're seeing any real extra costs. infact quite often the Eeb is the better value of the two.
look at a normal Sommet Vs the E Sommet or the YT range for direct sales examples.
But it's a pretty similar price difference between them with non direct sales manufacturers
even looking at the Santa Cruz E thing everyone lost their shit over the price of.

* Yeah. I know you need to take off the price of the normal bikes crank/BB Cranks to level that figure out but cranks and BBs on normal bikes has always been a place manufacturers cut costs, fitting shitty SRAM/Truvativ/Raceface/E13 and the like parts. Most folk don't even realise these parts are shit and only fitted as they save the manufacturer money.

 

[Doomanic]

The OEMs aren't going to be paying anything like that though, in fact I'd be surprised if it was as much as 50%.

 

[Gary]

Way to miss the point

FFS

they aren't paying RETAIL for anything. The consumer is

 

[Doomanic]

So why bother quoting retail at all then? You've just argued that the difference is in fact way bigger than the retail price difference would suggest.

 

[Elover]

If you can demo the norco, I would try that. Looks a nice bike and has a 630 battery.

 

[Drop_the_Mike]

If you can demo the norco, I would try that. Looks a nice bike and has a 630 battery.

What Norco are you talking about here?

 

[Drop_the_Mike]

I'm 42 and not in great bike shape. If the battery runs out on the trail, am I basically heading down to the car? How hard is it to pedal these heavy bastards without battery?

 

[Elover]

What Norco are you talking about here?

Range vlt.

 

[Gary]

So why bother quoting retail at all then? You've just argued that the difference is in fact way bigger than the retail price difference would suggest.

You didn't actually look at the bikes I suggested to compare prices between did you?

You still haven't answered my question. Where are you seeing this Ebike price premium?

 

[Gary]

Straya pricing is irrelevant to what I said to Dom.
But..
No one buys top end 160mm Merida "normal" mtbs at all. (for good reason) here.
The reason the e9000 costs so much is its (pointlessly high for an Ebike) spec. Same deal with anything SWorks. Or indeed any super high spec "normal" bike.
You realise it's perfectly possible to buy £10k off the shelf roadbikes with no suspension, Dropper etc.?
They sell too. But only to a certain market. That market isn't you or Dom.
So yeah. You might as well both be pointlessly moaning about the price of the new iPhone.

 

[Gary]

Tldr? . Your marketing 101 applies to all bike pricing. Not just Ebikes

 

[Gary]

So how come Merida could flog the e160 900e here for 6k for more than two years?

Coz you're all a bunch of Ex crims and just rob banks n shit when you need cash?

Half of Aus bought one.

Hmm... dubious much?

Seriously tho. I wasn't talking or asking about the Austrailian Emtb market at all. I know fuck all about it. and care about it even less. The post of mine you quoted to jump in to reply to was a question asked directly to a fellow "pom"

funnily enough, certain european products have different pricing structures in different continents

 

[Gary]

There there, no need to be insulting.

I quite agree, I'd be more careful calling a Scot a "pom" in future.

The point of the conversation was whether mfg’ers were extracting a premium on emtb. My point was that they do, particularly on higher end bikes.

I guess from your massively simplistic view of international trading and retail trade you don't work within the cycle industry?
Clue: it's not just the manufacturers, extracting the premium. and the mark up percentage between super high end bikes and high end is actually incredibly similar.
You clearly have no clue what this is or how it works.
ie. there's a far smaller cost to the EVIL MFRs when specing own brand parts to the parts you typically find on super high end bikes. Hence the increased SAVINGS to YOU the punter on lower end full build bikes.
I can't actually be bothered explaining this any further, as you clearly have a chip on your shoulder about the sort of people who buy anything top end. I'm not sure why you care.
and if you do, go to Dental School yourself for 7 years and then spend 40hrs a week cleaning and repairing mingin peoples mouths.
Personally I don't care what bike anyone has or what it cost them. Their money. Their choice. Mtb has always been a hobby with a high proportion of it's participants using equipment way above their actual *need*. Emtb, having a higher price point for it's starting bar even more so.

‘nobody buys those bikes’. Well, they do - case in point being the e160 900e

FFS! Read what I typed again. Take your time this time. I didn't mention sales of their Ebikes at all. I mentioned "normal" mtbs.
Do you have any idea just how big a brand Merida are? or to put it another way, do you know how many mtb models Merida actually has in their line up?
No?
It's well over one hundred. Way more than any other MFR
and guess what? Their top end 160mm mtbs are among the least sold of their entire range.
with the popularity of Enduro world wide, why do you think this is?
Despite their size, they unlike almost all the other biggest players in the industry choose not to even figure on the international gravity racing scene (EWS/UCI WC DH, Fest/FMB etc). Why? Because they clearly don't care about high end gravity mtb sales.
Yes. those high end 160mm travel Merida bikes I mentioned that no one buys.
(They don't even make a proper high end model for you to be able to scowl at and dis the occupation of it's owner BTW)

As I said previously

Your marketing 101 applies to all bike pricing. Not just Ebikes

And not just top end bikes

 

[Gary]

Back to my original question to Dom
Just looking at UK pricing of the TREK range. Seeing as that's what you have @Doomanic.
Where would you say the Rail would equate to in the normal bike line up?
It's clearly aimed at trail/enduro riding so would it be fair to compare it to the Remedy, Slash or somewhere inbetween? I dunno. But anyway, either way...
The Cheapest TREK Rail model seems to be sold for £3700
cheapest Slash £2700
cheapest remedy £2200..(Which looks at a glance to have similar spec level to the rail)
Does £1500 more for a bike with a fully integrated top end mid motor system, charger etc. really seem like you're being taxed unfairly?
What am I missing here?
Genuinely interested as I think a lot of Emtbs offer better value than many of the latest normal mtbs.
Just look at dumb ass stuff like the price of a shitty snap happy POLE 180 stamina frame for example.

 

[Gary]

Did you get up super early or stay up late to come up with such an informative and thought provoking reply?

 

[jmulvaney]

I'm itching to pull the trigger on my first EMTB.
I am working off the Best 25 Review that many of you are familiar with:
The best eMTB of 2020: We’ve compared 25 eMTBs in our biggest group test ever | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
And I am working off of PinkBike for what is available to ship to me in Canada.
Here's what I have found:
1) Specialized Turbo Levo - 2017 - black - $1,800 USD
2) Specialized Turbo Levo Comp - 2017 - black - $4,000 USD
3) Specialized Turbo Levo Comp - 2019 - blue/neon - $4,000 USD
4) Specialized Turbo Levo Expert Carbon - 2018 - grey/silver - $4,400 USD

Option 3. 2019 Levo still has 1yr warranty left on motor. Also, this is the year that that they went to Brose2.1 and a significantly better ebike. And the Comp spec is Goldilocks for a newbie.

 

[randycpu]

I'm itching to pull the trigger on my first EMTB.
I am working off the Best 25 Review that many of you are familiar with:
The best eMTB of 2020: We’ve compared 25 eMTBs in our biggest group test ever | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
And I am working off of PinkBike for what is available to ship to me in Canada.
Here's what I have found:
1) Specialized Turbo Levo - 2017 - black - $1,800 USD
2) Specialized Turbo Levo Comp - 2017 - black - $4,000 USD
3) Specialized Turbo Levo Comp - 2019 - blue/neon - $4,000 USD
4) Specialized Turbo Levo Expert Carbon - 2018 - grey/silver - $4,400 USD

As the owner and rider of a 2016 Turbo Levo I'm going to respond to the OP's original question with this:

• I watch the eBay prices for these bikes like a hawk. First off, are these US$ or CAD$? Big difference lately.
• Assuming US$ and that these are FSRs (full suspension): The 2017 for $1800 is a great deal. The $4000 2017 is not such a great deal. The $4000 2019 is another great deal, and the $4400 2018 is just about right.
• Levos are great bikes, and well spec'd: 2016 /2017 Levos were mostly all "Expert" versions that came standard with Pike fork, Fox shock, and SRAM X01 drivetrain and cassette. Check the used bikes for their drivetrain gruppo to be sure
• The smoothness of the Specialized motor and motor software is still second to none. Ride a Levo and then ride the others
• Most Levos are completely reliable unless you get them wet. Most of the posters on this forum that report Levo motor failures are riding the newer motors (2019/2020) in "soggy" locations (Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand). The motor seals and electricals don't like being pressure washed or immersed in water. You and I live in North America with a better climate, and we can ride when it's nice out.
• Go visit your Specialized LBS to make an educated assessment of the cost of motor failures. Ask them about the cost of a motor or battery. Talk to them about your purchase options. Then weigh the price of a used bike (plus motor replacement cost) against any discount you are getting from a new bike. LOTS of COVID-19 discounts these days even a rebate direct from Spesh.
• These bikes have a BMS with memory and will report through Bluetooth and smartphone the "battery health", charge cycles, an odometer for mileage, and "motor health". Ask the seller for photos of these displays, or go visit the bike before you buy. More than 100 charge cycles or 1000 miles, you are more likely to need to spend money on repairs.
• When buying a used bike, assume that wear items (brake pads, chain, tires, etc) might need swapping. Chains tend to last 500 miles and cost US$50. Another reason to visit your LBS to talk about a service for your new toy.

Good luck with your happy dilemma!!