Tyre Sealant Issues

[Wheelie_King]

Hi All

I’m new to tubeless and have used the Muc-Off sealant recently to convert. I’d read it out performed all rivals and even sealed substantial sidewall tears.

First time I’ve had an issue tonight. Very wet and muddy UK riding conditions.

Looks like I’ve pressed the tyre against the rim and ended up with a 1-2mm hole in the edge of the tyre (still between tread so not sidewall) and next to it where the bead meets the rim some air/sealant escaping there. Both were what you’d call a slow puncture, and sealant was very slowly escaping both areas.

Trouble was neither sealed despite orienting the wheel to pool sealant in the right place, and then pumping up and riding on.

Is my sealant crap? Did the 0 degrees temperature affect the sealant? Did the muddy water prevent it sealing?

I know there’s no firm answers here but looking for the benefit of peoples’ experiences.

Thanks

 

[outerlimits]

Sealant should seal 1-2mm hole in the tread area no dramas. Maybe you burped the tyre and got a bit of crap stuck in the bead and that’s why it’s leaking there. Sounds like you were running too low a pressure.
Sealant can be good when it works and pure crap when it doesn’t. Always topping up sealant and plugging larger holes with a plug so it can do its job. It will lose air at some stage between rides and even during a ride when it’s been repaired by sealant. It’s messy to put in a tube trail side if need be too.

Sealant can be hit and miss and I’m over it.
I have changed back to tubes running Tannus Armour for protection. It’s 100 times better and basically maintenance free.

 

[Wheelie_King]

I’d pumped the tyres up before riding. I was at about 25psi.
I’m hoping to love tubeless but it failed at the first hurdle!

 

[steve_sordy]

I’d pumped the tyres up before riding. I was at about 25psi.
I’m hoping to love tubeless but it failed at the first hurdle!

Be patient, don't give up. I have had many years of trouble free tubeless running. But then I had two faulty tyres on the trot. Both failed in the exact same place on the tyre and at very similar mileages, both replaced under warranty, no difficulty. If that had been my first experience of tubeless running, I'd still be on tubes. (But the tyres would still have failed).

 

[KennyB]

I had a problem a few years ago, dented the rim and burped the tyre, sealant had dried up and the tyre wouldn't properly seal due to lumps of sealant getting between the bead and the rim. Shop had used Stan's Race sealant to set it up which dried up very quickly. Cleaned it all up, straightened the rim and redid it with 80ml of normal stuff. I check the quantity and quality every 3 months, milkit makes this easy. Quite a few puncture but no flats since.

 

[Akiwi]

Maybe your sealant is too liquid. You could try Gmbn's Hack / Trick of adding ground pepper into the mix. Helps block the holes. and most importantly in this day and age is fully Bio!!! ;-) I use FinishLine stuff which is full of chopped strands of Kevlar. Seems to do the trick.

 

[118]

i've been running Orange Seal in my hoops. Only had one issue, when I burped a tyre and ripped out a valve in the process. I now run a tubeless tyre insert, to try and prevent future burps..

 

[GrahamPaul]

Trouble was neither sealed despite orienting the wheel to pool sealant in the right place, and then pumping up and riding on.

Is my sealant crap? Did the 0 degrees temperature affect the sealant? Did the muddy water prevent it sealing?

I've no experience of such low temperature punctures - in this part of the world, heat drying out the sealant in the tyre is the usual problem - but I would think that the combination of all of the above was probably at fault:

• The sealant needs to react with air. I'm pretty sure that it will be temperature dependant to some degree (no pun intended!)
• Any water will affect the sealant before it goes off - it's water based after all. I witnessed a tubeless tyre going flat in a muddy hole recently. There was so much slimy mud everywhere that there was just no way for the sealant to get air at the tyre before bubbling through the mud.
• Orientating the hole to pool the sealant can force too much sealant through the hole before it has a chance to react with the air - especially if you have pumped the tyre up hard again. As I understand it, the usual advice is to spin the wheel. I've always done this - and not reinflated the tyre until the leak has stopped.
• Pumping up the tyre and riding off before the sealant has had a chance to work? Not sure about this: I had one tricky leak which sealed when I rode off - but it was warm and dry conditions. I can imagine that wet conditions wouldn't allow the sealant a chance to react with air before it gets washed away. Also, tests done by the lads at GMBN seemed to show that anything above a 2 bar pressure would probably unseal a significant leak.

I carry a plug kit for those bastard leaks which just won't stop. At least with a bike tyre it's not the same as my motorbike days, where once I'd plugged the tyre I had to throw it away.

 

[Wheelie_King]

Thanks all. Guess what?? It sealed itself!! At the end of the troubled ride I put the bike on the rack, drove home, hosed it down and put away. Next day the tyre was soft but still up. I’ve pumped it up and now it’s stayed up.
The integrity of the sealant must therefore be fine, and from the comments:
1) The cold wet muddy conditions must have played a part,
2) Pumping it up to 30+ psi and riding on was the wrong thing to do.
In that situation again I‘m taking from the helpful advice I should have rotated the wheel until sealant bubbles through in the right place, then given it time to dry?
p.s. is burping a tyre breaking the seal between the bead/rim?
Thanks

 

[KennyB]

Re: burping, think so, it's certainly what I meant.

 

[GrahamPaul]

p.s. is burping a tyre breaking the seal between the bead/rim?

AIUI (and I've only been running tubeless for a year, so am more than happy to be corrected), a burp on a tubeless tyre is pretty much the equivalent of having had a snake bite puncture on a tubed tyre: you've hit something on an edge which has deformed the tyre into the wheel. Basically the tyre material has no way of deforming to that extent and the bead peels away from the rim - giving a burp. It should seal quickly, but a massive burp may leave you short on air pressure. So check you tyre pressure as soon a possible thereafter. A burp is also possible on tubeless running low pressures when you hit a bend hard and the tyre wall basically squirms off the rim - a reason to not go too low with those pressures if you are pushing hard in corners.

BTW, having had a burp and a puncture which was slow to seal, you probably need to top up your sealant. I usually add about 50% of the usual amount "just to be sure".

 

[118]

" Burping air happens when lateral forces on the wheel distort the tire and momentarily unseat the tire’s bead. The tire loses about half its pressure and then the bead magically reseats, leaving the hapless rider with a tire that is neither full nor flat – and absolutely useless for riding purposes. "

obviously, I know how to spell tyre, correctly..

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I think its the muc off, ive never had a problem using stans but the shop I bought my levo from said that the muc off stuff was the mutts nuts and fitted the tubeless with it.. first puncture I got I just watched the stuff seeping out of the tyre failing to seal a tiny hole.. spun the wheel etc but its just rubbish..
to make sure I cleaned up the tyre and checked it for punctures and it really was just one small hole. the stuff is junk, stick to stans

 

[grantini]

Sealant should seal 1-2mm hole in the tread area no dramas. Maybe you burped the tyre and got a bit of crap stuck in the bead and that’s why it’s leaking there. Sounds like you were running too low a pressure.
Sealant can be good when it works and pure crap when it doesn’t. Always topping up sealant and plugging larger holes with a plug so it can do its job. It will lose air at some stage between rides and even during a ride when it’s been repaired by sealant. It’s messy to put in a tube trail side if need be too.

Sealant can be hit and miss and I’m over it.
I have changed back to tubes running Tannus Armour for protection. It’s 100 times better and basically maintenance free.

Me too,i put tannus armour in yesterday as I'm sick of cleaning the bike thoroughly after every ride and ruining my riding gear with the sealant.

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That’s crazy. I’ve had great luck with orange.

 

[Wheelie_King]

That’s crazy. I’ve had great luck with orange.

Orange is what my local bike shop sold me as better than the rest so we’ll see!

 

[Wheelie_King]

It's not that the muc off does not work, it's the small rock cuts in the tyres that let it all spray over me and the bike, not anymore!!

Your photos add a whole new meaning to the expression “Bike porn” ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Me too,i put tannus armour in yesterday as I'm sick of cleaning the bike thoroughly after every ride and ruining my riding gear with the sealant.

You know you can put air in the tyre as well as just sealant ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Your photos add a whole new meaning to the expression “Bike porn” ?

I did wonder just how excited @Levo19 gets as he hangs off the back of the bike ..

"ohhh, this feels soo good ... sooo soooo good ... TOO GOOD .. a shite, not again "

Some of these, in waterproof might help ??

MTB Shorts & Baggy Cycling Shorts | Free Delivery | Endura

Though if you hang low you might need the trousers instead.

 

[outerlimits]

You know you can put air in the tyre as well as just sealant ?

Some people also put foam in as well as the sealant and air ?. You can put tubes and foam in now days too. The combinations seem endless. I’ve also heard of other stuff too like glitter, shredded rubber, grass, unicorn dust, nitrogen, slime, bananas, milk, old jeans, latex, some bloke named Joe, and even old Stan ?

 

[Jeff McD]

Been tubeless ever since it first came out. I feel I have now perfected the technique: always carry a Genuine Innovations Tubeless Tire Repair Kit, cost $8, with one or two plugs pre-fitted on to the applicator tool that looks like a small screwdriver, wrapped up in saran wrap and put in your pocket for quick access. As soon as you realize you have the flat, just ignore whether or not sealant is working or standing there and giving it 5 to 10 minutes to seal. Grab one pre--fitted plug and force it in the hole immediately. Pump your tire back up and you're on your way in five minutes or less. Even for a slow leak, you don't want to just keep riding and hoping it will seal while spraying sealant everywhere on you in the bike.
For small holes no sealant leaks pass the plug. For larger holes the sealant will seal the edges around the plug as you ride. For even larger tears and sidewall tears I have also had to put in a larger plug used for pick up trucks. These are harder to get onto the applicator tool and absolutely must be pre-assembled ahead of time at home where you have other tools to help out. Trying to put it on the little screwdriver in the field is usually not successful. As time goes by you will accumulate extra screwdriver applicator tools to make pre-assembled plugs.
Sometimes you can't tell what size plug you need, but when you put the small mountain bike tire plug in, it goes in too easily, and that is a dead giveaway that you had better put the larger truck plug in instead. This technique has always worked, foolproof unless of course there's a 1 inch or 2 inch tear in the sidewall in which case you will need a boot and put a tube in obviously. This has never happened to me but I have been riding for 30 years off road & have learned to avoid the nasty stuff pretty well.
I haven't had to put a tube in for a flat in 8 years. I have not found anything else quicker and simpler. Before you give up on tubeless, at least try this method. It will make a believer out of you.
Many of the newer sealants with the more friendly biodegradable formulas just don't seal as well as the older formulas, even after standing there and letting it puddle and then spinning the tires for 20 minutes! Just plug it and go. Don't waste time whining endlessly about the shite sealant.
The only way you can get caught is if you don't check your sealant levels periodically and the plug is not quite enough all by itself to give a good seal. Then you are in trouble. Got to check sealant! Mark your calendar or you will forget it! Over here it's very hot so I check every two weeks.

 

[CjP]

I’d move to a different country!

 

[Wheelie_King]

Been tubeless ever since it first came out. I feel I have now perfected the technique: always carry a Genuine Innovations Tubeless Tire Repair Kit, cost $8, with one or two plugs pre-fitted on to the applicator tool that looks like a small screwdriver, wrapped up in saran wrap and put in your pocket for quick access. As soon as you realize you have the flat, just ignore whether or not sealant is working or standing there and giving it 5 to 10 minutes to seal. Grab one pre--fitted plug and force it in the hole immediately. Pump your tire back up and you're on your way in five minutes or less. Even for a slow leak, you don't want to just keep riding and hoping it will seal while spraying sealant everywhere on you in the bike.
For small holes no sealant leaks pass the plug. For larger holes the sealant will seal the edges around the plug as you ride. For even larger tears and sidewall tears I have also had to put in a larger plug used for pick up trucks. These are harder to get onto the applicator tool and absolutely must be pre-assembled ahead of time at home where you have other tools to help out. Trying to put it on the little screwdriver in the field is usually not successful. As time goes by you will accumulate extra screwdriver applicator tools to make pre-assembled plugs.
Sometimes you can't tell what size plug you need, but when you put the small mountain bike tire plug in, it goes in too easily, and that is a dead giveaway that you had better put the larger truck plug in instead. This technique has always worked, foolproof unless of course there's a 1 inch or 2 inch tear in the sidewall in which case you will need a boot and put a tube in obviously. This has never happened to me but I have been riding for 30 years off road & have learned to avoid the nasty stuff pretty well.
I haven't had to put a tube in for a flat in 8 years. I have not found anything else quicker and simpler. Before you give up on tubeless, at least try this method. It will make a believer out of you.
Many of the newer sealants with the more friendly biodegradable formulas just don't seal as well as the older formulas, even after standing there and letting it puddle and then spinning the tires for 20 minutes! Just plug it and go. Don't waste time whining endlessly about the shite sealant.
The only way you can get caught is if you don't check your sealant levels periodically and the plug is not quite enough all by itself to give a good seal. Then you are in trouble. Got to check sealant! Mark your calendar or you will forget it! Over here it's very hot so I check every two weeks.

Thanks Jeff, good to know.
Topping up every two weeks? You’ll have a solid tyre in a few months!!

 

[grantini]

Me too,i put tannus armour in yesterday as I'm sick of cleaning the bike thoroughly after every ride and ruining my riding gear with the sealant.

i don’t think you are doing it right


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