Levo Gen 3 Turbo Levo Gen3 Sprag bearing/clutch failure - FIXED

[Mind]

Hi there,

First post for me here but I have been visiting this forum for a long time and it has been really useful to me on many topics, big thanks to the community here

I have a little enigma for you guys : I own a Turbo Levo Gen 3 Comp Carbon and i'm very happy with it, however, for the past month, a rather strange phenomenon has been occurring and I am looking for some help to isolate and fix the issue.

Here is the bike incriminated...

The problem :

A very distinct “CLAC” noise occurs right after the crankset/chainring has stopped spinning (1 sec after you physically stopped pedaling).This is not a creaking noise but a distinctive “CLAC” coming from the engine area.

The noise occurs once in 2 and its growing but only just after you stopped pedaling

The noise can also occur when initiating a bunny hop, but again, only if you have just stopped pedaling and only occurs once each time you stop pedaling.


Its a bit wierd so here some details :

Case 1
Pedaling... (even very hard) (no noise) > I stop pedaling > “CLAC” 1 sec after stopping (50% chance ) > I start a bunny hop right after the noise > no more "CLAC" until i pedal and stop again.

Case 2
Pedaling... (even very hard) (no noise) > I stop pedaling > No noise (50% chance) > I start a bunny hop > “CLAC” when i pump the bike > I throw a bunny again without pedaling > no more “CLAC” until i pedal and stop again.

• The origin of the noise is clearly identified in the engine area.
• No difference if standing/sitting.
• This is the original engine of the bike (3044 miles).
• The bike has never been desrestricted
• No motor error within the diag.
• The motor is generally very quiet.

Here is what was checked / dismantled

Pedals (DH mallet), cranks (stock), chainring (stock) > Disassembled / changed / greased > Not the source of the noise
Bearings > Not the source of the noise > the rear triangle has been re-greased other bearings checked as well
Transmission (GX eagle / XX1) > Test with another transmission and different rear wheel > Not the source of the noise
Engine bay fixations > Dismantled and re-greasing of the screws > no mark or wear symptom> Not the source of the noise
Fox 36 Factory Ebike Opt > Dismantled and re-greasing of the fixations > Not the source of the noise
Fox X2 Factory > Dismantled and re-greasing of the fixations > Not the source of the noise
Fox Transfer > Dismantled and re-greasing of the inserts > Not the source of the noise

The bike has been inspected by a Specialized shop and is still sitting here, they obviouslsy found the noise but not the origin of it.

Maybe the freewheel inside the motor is displaced / broken ?

Any clue of what is going on ?

Thanks

 

[Mind]

Update :

My local Specialized shop acknowledged that is has to come from the engine (inside) which seems to be obvious now that they have dismantled the whole bike exept this.

But i've a feeling that i'm not done yet....

My Specialized LBS don't have another motor to make a test so they told me that they were hesitating to order a new one from Specialized because they gonna have to pay for it.... or I could pay in advance the motor price to accelerate the process.

Id like to precise that my bike is brand new, registered on Specialized services, has less than 6 months and obviously still under warranty. So if the problem is declared in the motor they won't have to pay for it...

WTF is that kind of support ? Am I dreaming or Specialized is trying to scam me ?

 

[Pauliemon]

That would piss me off. Call Specialized Rider Care.

 

[ebikerider]

It's probably just the motor engaging and driving forward from chain tension. It basically thinks it needs to drive forward but has been fooled by a slow sensor. Mine does it occasionally too. Nothing to worry about if it is that.

 

[Mind]

It's probably just the motor engaging and driving forward from chain tension. It basically thinks it needs to drive forward but has been fooled by a slow sensor. Mine does it occasionally too. Nothing to worry about if it is that.

Hey thanks for the reply,

Could be, but i guess i would feel in the pedals the motor rush or lag.

And the keypoint is that the noise is also here when the motor is OFF wich almost invalidate all the potential sensor problems.

Its not an occasional noise or something very quiet, its loud and repeatable in every situation (wet/dry/when the bike is clean or dirty/low temp / high temp)

 

[ebikerider]

Hey thanks for the reply,

Could be, but i guess i would feel in the pedals the motor rush or lag.

And the keypoint is that the noise is also here when the motor is OFF wich almost invalidate all the potential sensor problems.

Its not an occasional noise or something very quiet, its loud and repeatable in every situation (wet/dry/when the bike is clean or dirty/low temp / high temp)

Ah right, missed that. What rear hub have you got? Have you checked that?

 

[Mind]

Ah right, missed that. What rear hub have you got? Have you checked that?

Hope pro 4 (Fortus 35 wheels)
The bike has been tested with another rear wheel, same noise

 

[ebikerider]

I rode my Levo for the third time today (I only picked it up a few days ago) and it has the same noise. Sounds like the motor catching up the free play and hitting a metal stop. Seems to occur when I pedal after freewheeling over rocks.
Good luck in your search. It’ll get fixed when the motor blows

 

[Mind]

I rode my Levo for the third time today (I only picked it up a few days ago) and it has the same noise. Sounds like the motor catching up the free play and hitting a metal stop. Seems to occur when I pedal after freewheeling over rocks.
Good luck in your search. It’ll get fixed when the motor blows

If it's the same problem, the noise has become more and more frequent no matters the roughness of the terrain you ride on. It's now always there, it became louder and louder and very distracting.

The noise is exacly like you described : something hitting a metal stop inside the motor.

I would have preferred to have a broken belt like everyone else, at least the diagnosis and the replacement would have been done quickly :/

 

[Snrbrtsn]

Have you tried pedalling along, then stop pedalling and watch the chain ring for over run ?

I say this as I have a slight intermittent ‘clac’ similar to your description on my late gen2 with 200 series motor!
My over run is getting worse and now effecting the gear change (I back off pedalling whilst up or down shifting and the motor over run is causing changes under load)
I’ll continue to run and hope it blows,

My understanding, it’s a sticking sprag clutch and shall eventually fail!
Its my second motor, so hopefully my next change will be as Seemless!

From above, I’d suggest your bike shop is poor, from my dealings, Specialized warranty Is pretty Dahm good and claims are very well handled

 

[Pauliemon]

You know my Gen 3 motor did the same thing while in the workstand. Freewheeling and then catching up. I had changed wheels and was having trouble with the magnet. I had to use two magnets to get it to work. When I tried a single magnet it would do the freewheel thing. Both the rotor and lock ring have magnets.

 

[Mind]

That would piss me off. Call Specialized Rider Care.

Update:

I contacted Specialized Rider Care support yesterday, explained the problem and the exchanges I had with the local Specialized store.

They contacted the shop and sent a brand new engine, they also waived the troubleshooting fees.
So I have to say : Amazing support from the Specialized rider care program.

I hope its going to definitly fix the problem. I'll keep you informed.

Thanks to everybody here for the replies.

 

[Snrbrtsn]

Thanks for feedback!
From my experiences with Specialized, I’m not all surprised at the resolution.
The support is second to none and after much research prior to my purchase, it was bias on the strength of warranty as opposed to the product, though now, the bike and warranty are on equal merit!

 

[High Rock Ruti]

High Rock Ruti

I was immediately suspicious of the Sprague clutch the sudden stop would be indicative of a pawl catching, although the how and why the motor is spontaneously moving does not add up, also I have lost so many motors to Sprague clutch failures I'm sensitized so might just be my next motor failure paranoia. One common problem is motor run on, not the normal tenth of a second but the one second blast, however this is when the motor continues to drive after I stop pedaling, what you described is the motor starting to drive after stopping, without pedaling. Any chance you're activating the drive inadvertently, a bunny hop could do that if the pedals were slightly rotated?

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Mind]

High Rock Ruti

I was immediately suspicious of the Sprague clutch the sudden stop would be indicative of a pawl catching, although the how and why the motor is spontaneously moving does not add up, also I have lost so many motors to Sprague clutch failures I'm sensitized so might just be my next motor failure paranoia. One common problem is motor run on, not the normal tenth of a second but the one second blast, however this is when the motor continues to drive after I stop pedaling, what you described is the motor starting to drive after stopping, without pedaling. Any chance you're activating the drive inadvertently, a bunny hop could do that if the pedals were slightly rotated?

Warm Regards Ruti

The thing is, the motor do exactly the same noise when it's on off. So even in the case of if i'm activating the drive slightly, on off mode it shouldn't catch up like this with a clunky noise.

But i've to admit still today, the bike shop and me neither has an exact idea of what causing that noise.

It's 100% from the motor and It should come from the freewheel/sprague clutch, that's the only guess.

I hope my old motor will get inspected at least to determine the problem, but i doubt I will get the feedback.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

The thing is, the motor do exactly the same noise when it's on off. So even in the case of if i'm activating the drive slightly, on off mode it shouldn't catch up like this with a clunky noise.

But i've to admit still today, the bike shop and me neither has an exact idea of what causing that noise.

It's 100% from the motor and It should come from the freewheel/sprague clutch, that's the only guess.

I hope my old motor will be inspected at lest to determine the problem, but i doubt I will get the feedback.

No inspections

a "person" gets raped by a gorilla and is asked, did it hurt?

Did hurt they didn't call they didn't write, no flowers, no chocolates!

The Sprague clutch theory works with the motor off, but so much for theories.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Mind]

The Sprague clutch theory works with the motor off, but so much for theories.

Oh ok, Is that the part you are talking about ? >
I had little knowings about bearings so I gathered some information about the sprag bearings in the Brose engines on different sources and found that "Performance Line Bearing" articles and videos is a very usefull source to understand the potential faillures of Brose Motors.

They dismantled so many Brose motors and the sprag clutch is a very common source of faillure according to them.
Given the fact that the bearing housing is made of plastic, a tooth can rotate inside the housing and cause the EXACT noise/problem that i have on my bike.

A sprag bearing involved in this kind of faillure (Not my motor, on this one, a tooth has rotated inside the housing)

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Oh ok, Is that the part you are talking about ? >
I had little knowings about bearings so I gathered some information about the sprag bearings in the Brose engines on different sources and found that "Performance Line Bearing" articles and videos is a very usefull source to understand the potential faillures of Brose Motors.

They dismantled so many Brose motors and the sprag clutch is a very common source of faillure according to them.
Given the fact that the bearing housing is made of plastic, a tooth can rotate inside the housing and cause the EXACT noise/problem that i have on my bike.

A sprag bearing involved in this kind of faillure (Not my motor, on this one, a tooth has rotated inside the housing)

View attachment 99488

That is the sprag clutch I'm sorry I was miss spelling it and calling it a bearing it's neither. The picture shows the defective pawl (at least I got "Pawl" correct). I've lost several drive belts until they beefed them up. What's outrageous is that Specialized is selling (millions?) of bikes with a glaring defect?

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Repsol]

Hi there,

First post for me here but I have been visiting this forum for a long time and it has been really useful to me on many topics, big thanks to the community here

I have a little enigma for you guys : I own a Turbo Levo Gen 3 Comp Carbon and i'm very happy with it, however, for the past month, a rather strange phenomenon has been occurring and I am looking for some help to isolate and fix the issue.

Here is the bike incriminated...

View attachment 99116

The problem :

A very distinct “CLAC” noise occurs right after the crankset/chainring has stopped spinning (1 sec after you physically stopped pedaling).This is not a creaking noise but a distinctive “CLAC” coming from the engine area.

The noise occurs once in 2 and its growing but only just after you stopped pedaling

The noise can also occur when initiating a bunny hop, but again, only if you have just stopped pedaling and only occurs once each time you stop pedaling.


Its a bit wierd so here some details :

Case 1
Pedaling... (even very hard) (no noise) > I stop pedaling > “CLAC” 1 sec after stopping (50% chance ) > I start a bunny hop right after the noise > no more "CLAC" until i pedal and stop again.

Case 2
Pedaling... (even very hard) (no noise) > I stop pedaling > No noise (50% chance) > I start a bunny hop > “CLAC” when i pump the bike > I throw a bunny again without pedaling > no more “CLAC” until i pedal and stop again.

• The origin of the noise is clearly identified in the engine area.
• No difference if standing/sitting.
• This is the original engine of the bike (3044 miles).
• The bike has never been desrestricted
• No motor error within the diag.
• The motor is generally very quiet.

Here is what was checked / dismantled

Pedals (DH mallet), cranks (stock), chainring (stock) > Disassembled / changed / greased > Not the source of the noise
Bearings > Not the source of the noise > the rear triangle has been re-greased other bearings checked as well
Transmission (GX eagle / XX1) > Test with another transmission and different rear wheel > Not the source of the noise
Engine bay fixations > Dismantled and re-greasing of the screws > no mark or wear symptom> Not the source of the noise
Fox 36 Factory Ebike Opt > Dismantled and re-greasing of the fixations > Not the source of the noise
Fox X2 Factory > Dismantled and re-greasing of the fixations > Not the source of the noise
Fox Transfer > Dismantled and re-greasing of the inserts > Not the source of the noise

The bike has been inspected by a Specialized shop and is still sitting here, they obviouslsy found the noise but not the origin of it.

Maybe the freewheel inside the motor is displaced / broken ?

Any clue of what is going on ?

Thanks

You didn't happen to buy this from specialized Chester did you?
Had exactly the same thing on mine. Got a full refund after 3rd motor replacement within 3 months.

 

[Mind]

You didn't happen to buy this from specialized Chester did you?
Had exactly the same thing on mine. Got a full refund after 3rd motor replacement within 3 months.

Mine comes from Germany but i'm living in France, the bike was inspected by an official Specialized concept store in France

Damn, they should give you a batch of motors when you buy a Levo

Did the motor replacement fixed the issue at least temporarily ?

 

[Jedman5c]

You didn't happen to buy this from specialized Chester did you?
Had exactly the same thing on mine. Got a full refund after 3rd motor replacement within 3 months.

How long did this take to sort out? Gen 3 S-Works Levo Owner and on my 4th motor!!

 

[Repsol]

It didn't hence me getting my money back

 

[Repsol]

Mine comes from Germany but i'm living in France, the bike was inspected by an official Specialized concept store in France

Damn, they should give you a batch of motors when you buy a Levo

Did the motor replacement fixed the issue at least temporarily ?

Each motor replacement kept having additional faults. I now have a levo pro 22. Over a thousand miles on it and not a single motor issue.

 

[MiTurboComp]

Each motor replacement kept having additional faults. I now have a levo pro 22. Over a thousand miles on it and not a single motor issue.

Since I am about to receive my '22 Turbo Levo Comp, I assumed the Levo Pro, Expert, and Comp have the same motor correct?
Do you now own a Levo Pro? Not just a replacement motor from a Levo Pro.

Newbie,
MiTurboComp

 

[Mcharza]

Since I am about to receive my '22 Turbo Levo Comp, I assumed the Levo Pro, Expert, and Comp have the same motor correct?
Do you now own a Levo Pro? Not just a replacement motor from a Levo Pro.

Newbie,
MiTurboComp

Yes all the models has the same motor.

 

[Mind]

Update (Problem FIXED)

I picked up my Levo today after 3 weeks of immobilization, the bike is now perfectly quiet as it should be. It doesn't matter the terrain or what I'm doing on the pedals.

So it's confirmed it was coming from the engine (sprag clutch/bearings probably)

To be clear about the conclusion of the story :

- The motor remplacement was free (under warranty)
- The problem troubleshooting was free (covered by the warranty as well)
- The new motor feels more "solid" or tighter on the pedals and is quieter than the one I had before even when It was new. (it's like there's less gap between parts)
- In the past I occasionaly had some light rattle noises coming form the engine on very harsh terrains (even when my "old motor" was new), it's now completly gone.

So either my engine always had a fault that got worse over time and it took me some time to realize. Either Specialized gradually improves the motors on the production line over feedback. Both are possible

I'm back to riding

(ohh one last thing: the LBS changed my wheel circumference to 2000 to get me closer to the US speed limiter, that feels SOOO much better on flat sections...)

Thanks to everyone here for the support & replies

 

[smc_stefan]

Sounds good, after all the faulty motors and the sheer masses they produce, I would not be surprised if Brose would gradually improve their product to satisfy Specialized as their customer. As Brose is in the automotive business for decades, I would not be surprised if they have an automotive style contract with Spesh, which could dictate Brose to cover all cost for motor replacement.