Tubed or tubless

[Xman]

Hi Guys
Could do with some advice, /shared experience.
I've been e biking for about 18 months. I have a cube touring hybrid pro fitted with schwalbe big ben plus tyres which have done 2.2 k miles.
Just had my first puncture (the dreaded black thorn) so I thought maybe now is the time to change.
Looking at the marathon e-plus or schwalbe tubless. The wheels are tubless ready.
My biking is mainly tarmac with occasional off road, towpaths and gravel tracks.
I love the bike and the Big Ben's by the way just want avoid as many punctures as possible.
I understand that with tubless tyres you need to add a sealant in the airspace which sounds a bit messy if things go wrong or you need to change the tyre, plus the sealant needs to be replaced every six months or so.
Love to hear experiences

 

[The Hodge]

If you look below there are quite a few threads on this subject..

 

[urastus]

I would say that tubes are better for intermittent riders. My partner for example does not ride enough to bother with tubeless.

If you've only had one puncture that is pretty good. Tubeless with sealant is no guarantee against punctures; small holes may seal (in 10mins or so), larger ones won't. If the hole is not too big you may be able to use a plug, which is easier than swapping or repairing a tube and finding the cause of the puncture so that it doesn't re offend.

 

[Landy Andy]

For me I would always run tubless now. The only other option would be anti puctire tyres, and then slime filled tubes. Before swapping I was constantly getting thorn punctures. Now with tubless I don’t notice them at all, but have seen the evidence of still collecting the thorns, just not the problems. .

 

[steve_sordy]

...........................
I understand that with tubless tyres you need to add a sealant in the airspace which sounds a bit messy if things go wrong or you need to change the tyre, plus the sealant needs to be replaced every six months or so.
Love to hear experiences

I have been using sealant in my tubeless tyres for over 12 years now and I can remember only 3 occasions when I had to insert a tube because the sealant didn't fix the problem. One was when I ran out of sealant in the tyre (not the sealant's fault, but mine). The other two were when the faulty tyre failed at the bead (no sealant would have fixed that).

Replacing every six months or so? Latex sealants do tend to lose their effectiveness/get used up/whatever and need renewing. I just top up; I don't remove the tyre and clean out the old stuff. But non-latex sealants can last a lot longer than six months. Slime for example claim two years. However, be aware that latex sealants are very good at sealing tyres that are not tubeless ready. Non-latex sealants need more patience when first using, so are not for the novice (in my opinion).

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[mtb-steve]

Tubeless with sealant is even more relevant to casual users who may not know how to change a tube, my wife would have a go but she'd struggling for ages and probably puncture the new tube anyway, so I've converted her bike to tubeless.

Steve

 

[Xman]

Hi
And thanks alot for all your replies.
I'm edging to tubless, being 74 this year seems to me a lot less hassle for an oldie once set up and with ebikes being so heavy.
Will post final decision and choice of tyre when final decision is made.
Thanks again very helpful

 

[steve_sordy]

Hi
And thanks alot for all your replies.
I'm edging to tubless, being 74 this year seems to me a lot less hassle for an oldie once set up and with ebikes being so heavy.
Will post final decision and choice of tyre when final decision is made.
Thanks again very helpful

Do yourself a favour and get some sort of device to help inflate the tyre. You need something that will explode a load of air in really fast to blow the beads on to the rims. You don't need high pressure/low volume. Something like an Airshot is extremely good, but some folk have made ghetto versions with 3litre coke bottles and they seem quite happy, and still alive.

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[Xman]

Good tip.
Thank you, could you achieve the same with co2 inflator, open the valve and go

 

[Xman]

To be clear, I'm talking about those emergency tyre inflators that use co2 cartridges

 

[steve_sordy]

Good tip.
Thank you, could you achieve the same with co2 inflator, open the valve and go

Don't know, never done it. I have read that CO2 doesn't react well with some of the latex sealants. I don't know which ones, or even if it's true. Mr Google should tell you.
Another tip: Remove the valve core before inflating the tyre. The key objective is the move the beads onto the rims. You can add the valve core later and then inflate until you hear the loud BANGs that indicate that the beads have fully dropped into place. 40-45 psi usually does it.
Yet another tip: If your tyres are not rated as "tubeless" "LUST" or "UST" or "TLR" then inflate to 40psi and lay on their side on a bucket or a plant pot and leave for 30 mins or so. Check the pressure, reinflate if necessary and lay on the other side for 30 mins. That is to get the sidewalls sealed.

 

[Binhill1]

Hi Guys
Could do with some advice, /shared experience.
I've been e biking for about 18 months. I have a cube touring hybrid pro fitted with schwalbe big ben plus tyres which have done 2.2 k miles.
Just had my first puncture (the dreaded black thorn) so I thought maybe now is the time to change.
Looking at the marathon e-plus or schwalbe tubless. The wheels are tubless ready.
My biking is mainly tarmac with occasional off road, towpaths and gravel tracks.
I love the bike and the Big Ben's by the way just want avoid as many punctures as possible.
I understand that with tubless tyres you need to add a sealant in the airspace which sounds a bit messy if things go wrong or you need to change the tyre, plus the sealant needs to be replaced every six months or so.
Love to hear experiences

I had a nightmare experience with tubless at Anoch Mor . Never again i can easily cope with six punctures a year.

 

[Vas]

I use tubes with Tannus Armour inserts and Marathon Plus MTB tires. Full puncture protection (sidewalls too).
Furthermore, since Tannus prevent pinch flats, I'm also able to use lower pressure than usual tubed tyres.
The only drawback is increased weight, but this doesn't really matter with emtb, does it?

 

[Xman]

I use tubes with Tannus Armour inserts and Marathon Plus MTB tires. Full puncture protection (sidewalls too).
Furthermore, since Tannus prevent pinch flats, I'm also able to use lower pressure than usual tubed tyres.
The only drawback is increased weight, but this doesn't really matter with emtb, does it?

Interesting reply this, didn't give this approach consideration.
Any body else used tannus armour inserts?
What's really interesting they come in two forms, tubless or tubed.
I like the idea of the run flat feature

 

[Vas]

Interesting reply this, didn't give this approach consideration.
Any body else used tannus armour inserts?
What's really interesting they come in two forms, tubless or tubed.
I like the idea of the run flat feature

The tubeless insert does NOT offer any more puncture protection than the one you get by using a tubeless set up. Their main intended purpose of use is rim protection during DH drops rather than puncture protection.
I've only used the tube version. I've ridden 4500+ km on various surfaces and haven't had any flats to this day (two years and counting).

 

[Xman]

The tubeless insert does NOT offer any more puncture protection than the one you get by using a tubeless set up. Their main intended purpose of use is rim protection during DH drops rather than puncture protection.
I've only used the tube version. I've ridden 4500+ km on various surfaces and haven't had any flats to this day (two years and counting).

Do i take it you don't use slime or any other sealants

 

[Xman]

Do i take it you don't use slime or any other sealants

And have you noticed any negative issues ref the extra weight for each wheel

 

[brizi2003]

Interesting reply this, didn't give this approach consideration.
Any body else used tannus armour inserts?
What's really interesting they come in two forms, tubless or tubed.
I like the idea of the run flat feature

@Xman I have used Tannus inserts for 3 years and found them to be excellent. On one occasion the tyre sidewall split and it didn't puncture! I used one size smaller inner tube than needed for the tyre size as recommended. Never pinch flatted or had any punctures due to thorns etc. In my opinion, easier than tubeless with sealant. Ive seen numerous people have to just fit a tube which is not always ideal when the tyre potentially has several thorns etc., which may have been in the resealed tyre for some time! I did use tubeless for some time and the lighter tyres "felt" like it improved acceleration. I also found them to be relatively easy to setup but the Tannus is easier and works better in terms of puncture protection and extra weight is less important on an ebike IMO. Good luck Brian

 

[Xman]

Out of interest, what is your preferred choice of tyre

 

[Vas]

Do i take it you don't use slime or any other sealants

That's correct. I just use tubes and armour inserts.

 

[Vas]

And have you noticed any negative issues ref the extra weight for each wheel

None at all.

 

[brizi2003]

Out of interest, what is your preferred choice of tyre

@Xman I've only used Specialized tyres: Butcher Grid front, Eliminator Grid rear and Hill Billy front - when it's really muddy. 2.6" wide. Not everyone likes these tyres but I think they work great and are reasonably priced.

 

[Oldrider]

I too use the tannus armour inserts in both my bike and my wife's bike. Haven't had a puncture after 2,500 kms (touch wood). Mine is running Maxxis Minion DHF with the EXO casing and max grip (softest compound) on the front and Maxxis Minion DHR2 with EXO+ casing and max terra (medium compound) on the rear. The wife's is running Maxxis Minion DHF With EXO casing and medium compound on the front and Maxxis High Roller 2 with EXO casing and a hard compound on the rear. My bike is on 27.5"/ 35mm wide rims with 2.5" tyres and wife's is 29"/30mmwide rims with 2.3" tyres. Both are using Maxxis Flyweight tubes which I honestly didn't think would do the job, but so far no problems. I run identical tyre pressures on both bikes, 26psi in the rears, 22psi in the fronts.

 

[Sherman]

@Xman On one occasion the tyre sidewall split and it didn't puncture!

This is the reason I've switched from tubeless to Tannus inserts and tubes. Couple of times I've had sidewall splits which were major pita to fix on the trail. I'm using Tannus on my DH and EMTB where weight doesn't matter that much. True fit and forget, after one year of use I'm really happy so far.

 

[steve_sordy]

To all those that get punctures without flats and those who get flats without punctures. And to those who never get either!

It's that time of the evening when I'm feeling pedantic. My apologies, but here goes.

I get loads of punctures, but thanks to the sealant I use, I hardly ever get any flats.

A puncture is when the tyre is "punctured" by a nail, thorn, bit of glass, rock impact etc.
A flat is when the tyre goes flat at the bottom because some or all of the air has leaked out, but not necessarily from a puncture (dodgy valve?)

Installing some of the available tyre inserts can often mean that even a puncture, valve failure, or tyre damage severe enough to cause a flat in a non-inserted tyre may not result in the tyre actually going flat. But I've only read about those. Yet to try, but they sound fun.

 

[Gary]

I'm not sure what you've been reading but a tyre set up tubeless with an insert but no air left inside isn't actually a lot of fun to ride around on at all. To alow you to continue after a flat without stopping and finish a race run on they may just save your day. but a flat with an insert on a long loop may just ruin your day.
and certain insert, tyre and rim combos are so difficult to mount they may go on to ruin your whole evening afterwards.

We already know you're not pushing the limits too much on your rides or the in the sort of features/terrain you ride so inserts don't sound essential for you at all. But it sounds like you do ride somewhere with a lot of thorn type sharps. Standard tubeless with no insert is great for those sorts of punctures so I'd stick with what's clearly working for you.

if your tyre is only flat at the bottom can you truely call it flat?

 

[Asemnos]

I also run tubes + Tannus armor. Never had a puncture so I suppose I'm not going back tubeless anytime soon.

 

[stonedwolf]

I use tubes with Tannus Armour inserts

There is a gazillion things I know nothing about with modern bikes... and that's one of them. But I was speculating about how to engineer such a thing and why nobody has. Thanks for giving me something to consider for my almost-here first ebike.

 

[Xman]

Guys, the feedback on this topic has been amazing, thank you all so much.
So having cogitated and inwardly digested your replies I've decided to go with big ben plus tyres (tubed) with the tannus armour inserts.
Getting them fitted next week ready for the season.
Awesome! Will post how I find the new arrangement
Great stuff Geoff

 

[Xman]

Hi Guys
Bit of an update.
Having arrived at the shop(that sold me the bike) with my mind made up(big ben plus tyres with tannus inserts)the guy suggested I go with schwalbe marathon e plus and slime.
His argument being its a much better tyre than the big ben(tougher,much better puncture protection and deeper tread for better off road grip).
His experience to date has shown that all bikes they have upgrade from BB to M they have had zero punctures which was not the case with BB, and he argued I could always fit the tannus inserts at a later date if their experience didn't follow thro to me.
No brainer then so off I rode with my new M's and wow what a positive improvement, in general handling and grip. I feel more confident with these tyres, they also seem to give a smoother ride with no loss of overall speed.
Well chuffed so far