Powerfly TRL Bontrager rims losing 10 lbs a week?

[Expidia]

I have two Powerflys. The first one I've already had the Trek company store convert it to tubeless last season. It came with the Tubeless Ready Bontrager Line Comp rims (no tape needed). But before I convert my 2nd bike over to the XR3's (I really like these tires) . . . I have done 2 Stan's 2-3 oz top offs since last summer before I brought it back to Trek again.

On 7/26/23 I told them I'm still losing about 10-12 lbs over a week or two (both wheels evenly) I have to re-inflate to 40 lbs each time. He did a recharge $12 (using my own large bottle of Stan's which I had purchased from them) and he also said he did tighten one of the valve collars that was a little loose, yet after another recharge over the past 2 months, I still lose 10 lbs every week or two with each tire. Is this normal? Should I have them tape the wheels and order better quality valve stems?

Thx

 

[steve_sordy]

Have you tried immersing the wheels in water to see where the leaks are?

Despite topping up with fresh sealant, my tyres lose air steadily (about 3-5 psi per week). I can't see where its coming from. It's not really a problem because it doesn't affect a ride and I check psi before every ride as standard. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that it is all the accumulated punctures over the life of the tyre and the sealant hasn't really 100% sealed the holes. There are probably so many punctures that they accumulate to a steady and measurable loss.

 

[Expidia]

Have you tried immersing the wheels in water to see where the leaks are?

Despite topping up with fresh sealant, my tyres lose air steadily (about 3-5 psi per week). I can't see where its coming from. It's not really a problem because it doesn't affect a ride and I check psi before every ride as standard. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that it is all the accumulated punctures over the life of the tyre and the sealant hasn't really 100% sealed the holes. There are probably so many punctures that they accumulate to a steady and measurable loss.

Thx for that reply Steve. I'm in the same PSI weekly loss as you are but as you says yours is probably accumulated and sealed punctures. My concern is it's done this since the tires were new. This is why I'm leaning towards these TRL Bontrager rims are not holding air well enough or it might be the valves.

 

[irie]

Our (wife and my) Rails wheels also lose about 3-5 psi per week, but since I pump our wheels before every ride it's not an issue. Both bikes wheels are Hunt Trail Wide V2, but IIRC the stock wheels also leaked pretty much the same. Tubeless tyre sealing to rims is pretty basic. Both bikes have Maxxis Assegai Maxxgrip DD front and rear.

 

[Stihldog]

A spray bottle with a dishsoap/ water mixture may help.
The original Bontrager wheels can be problematic. If air bubbles are occurring on the rim then the plastic rim seal could have a very small hole in it. I have found that any amount or type of sealant will not stop this slow leak. I eventually used proper rim tape and applied it myself. Problem solved.

 

[Expidia]

A spray bottle with a dishsoap/ water mixture may help. View attachment 125821
The original Bontrager wheels can be problematic. If air bubbles are occurring on the rim then the plastic rim seal could have a very small hole in it. I have found that any amount or type of sealant will not stop this slow leak. I eventually used proper rim tape and applied it myself. Problem solved.

Thx Stihldog. I'll give the wheels a spray. I know I can locate the leaks myself but I shouldn't have to if I bring it to a qualified company owned Trek shop! I wanted them to convert to tubeless and then I can do it myself there after. I've read these Bontrager rims can be problematic, so I figured let them do it the first time incase they also need to be taped.

I was just curious if my PSI loss over 1-2 weeks is typical?

 

[Stihldog]

Thx Stihldog. I'll give the wheels a spray. I kow I can locate the leaks myself but I shouldn't have to if I bring it to a qualified company owned Trek shop! I wanted them to covert to tubeless and then I can do it myself there after. I've read these Bontrager rims can be problematic, so I figured let them do it the first time incase they also need to be taped.

I was just curious if my PSI loss over 1-2 weeks is typical?

I have a shop air compressor, park tool inflator, Assigia tires, Raceface rims, stans rim tape, Filmore valves and use muckoff sealant. I ride (almost) each day. Once every few months I add a few psi to bring the pressure back up to 24psi. I don’t know why the psi in my tires last so long. Maybe it’s the Filmore valves. .

Or…

 

[Expidia]

I have a shop air compressor, park tool inflator, Assigia tires, Raceface rims, stans rim tape, Filmore valves and use muckoff sealant. I ride (almost) each day. Once every few months I add a few psi to bring the pressure back up to 24psi. I don’t know why the psi in my tires last so long. Maybe it’s the Filmore valves. .

Or…

Thanks. You’ve mentioned those Filmore valves in the past. I think they were $50 on Amazon. I don’t mind buying them if I have too. But I’ll first spray the wheels down to see where I’m losing air.

And as to the Hollies:

 

[RustyIron]

I'm still losing about 10-12 lbs over a week or two (both wheels evenly) I have to re-inflate to 40 lbs each time.

Losing a pound a day is perfectly normal. I check my tires before every ride. Sometimes I don't notice a difference after 24 hours, sometimes I do. Expecting your pressures to remain unchanged after a week or two isn't realistic.

 

[Expidia]

Losing a pound a day is perfectly normal. I check my tires before every ride. Sometimes I don't notice a difference after 24 hours, sometimes I do. Expecting your pressures to remain unchanged after a week or two isn't realistic.

OK, that’s what I wanted to be assured of in that I don’t want go back to the Trek store a third time and bust the guys chops that he can’t stop the air from dropping 5-10 lbs a week. My tubed PF holds the pressure for months so thats got me thinking not to go tubeless when the current LT4 Experts wear out On my 2nd E-bike. And maybe put the tubes back in my PF FS9. I have to carry a spare tube on each bike anyway.

Tubeless might be overkill for me anyway as I’m mostly single track, Xcountry and use paved roads to get to the trails.

I’ll pump the tubeless tires up over 55 lbs and spray them down to see how bad the leaks really are before I go back to the store and complain.

I have all the tools to mount tubeless tires. I already own the Bontrager TLR Flash Can air pump which I purchased after I found how hard it can be to get the beads to pop even with soap and water or CO2 cartridges . . . I found it difficult the first time I mounted them myself and had to bring them down to a local bike shop to pop the beads with their compressor.

I also read a post suggesting to first pop them in place with a tube inside then remove one side and pull out the tube and then it can be easier to pop and seat the bead on just that one open side. But even the Trek shop can’t seem to stop the beads or the valves from slowly leaking?

 

[steve_sordy]

When tubeless tyres first came out, I bought proper tubeless tyres, ie UST (Univeral System Tubeless) ones to suit my Mavic rims (the inventors of UST). I had zero problems and had no problems with steady leaks either. Sealant was not necessary to keep the tyre up, the rim/tyre combo did that perfectly well all by itself. Sealant was however required to stop punctures from becoming flats. I used a non-latex sealant called Puncture Guard (can't get it now). It never went off and it left a bright green dot where a puncture had occurred. I also could inflate the tyre onto the rim with an ordinary track pump.

As I got more adept with tubeless, I tried tyres that were not UST. I discovered that air did indeed leak out of the carcass, because I could see it as it foamed the soapy water lying on the tyre into thousands of white mini-volcanoes. The Puncture Guard sealant I was using wasn't good at sealing all those micro holes, so I switched to a latex sealant. That did a fantastic job of sealing the sidewalls of tyres that were not UST or the Maxxis equivalent, LUST (Lightweight Ultimate Sidewall Technology). But as we all know; latex sealants go off after 3-6 months. I also discovered that my track pump wasn't man enough for the job and I needed something that exploded the tyre onto the rim, so I bought an Airshot; brilliant bit of kit!

I have no idea whether UST or LUST tyres are even made anymore, or whether they have been replaced by TLR (tubeless ready) tyres and rims. Edit: I have just Googled that and to my surprise they are still made.
I also haven't checked for many years whether air leaks from the sidewalls of new tyres, it might do, it might not, I just don't know.

 

[Expidia]

Thanks Steve. I've read your similar comments before on tubeless. From what I've seen the tires that hang on a store rack have floppy thin sides now as compared to tires that are sold as a whole round tire (not folded). I found those floppy sides are like balloon material and are tougher to seat the bead. I've also found the 120 TPI sidewalls (which is the XR3) are harder to seat the bead. I'll lay the bike on the ground on each side and spray the beads and valves to see if I can spot the miniscule leaks.

 

[Expidia]

Losing a pound a day is perfectly normal. I check my tires before every ride. Sometimes I don't notice a difference after 24 hours, sometimes I do. Expecting your pressures to remain unchanged after a week or two isn't realistic.

Good to know. I had nothing to judge the air loss against since my other tubed EMTB loses very little pressure over two months. Maybe a pound or two.

 

[RustyIron]

Tubeless might be overkill for me anyway as I’m mostly single track, Xcountry and use paved roads to get to the trails.

I suppose it depends on what/where you ride. In the olden days around here, it was a good day when no one got a flat. With tubeless, it's a rare day when anyone gets a flat.

I also read a post suggesting to first pop them in place with a tube inside then remove one side and pull out the tube and then it can be easier to pop and seat the bead on just that one open side.

That's true. I have one wheel and tire combo that does NOT like to seat a new tire. It's truly absurd. Installing a tube takes a few minutes extra, but the tire seats easily after that.

 

[KevinNY]

If it helps, I have 5 sets of wheels and tires and they all will lost approximately 5psi or more per week. I got used to it and it forces me to fill up before each ride.

2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + SE5 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Maxxis Assegai Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
(Spare set) 2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Maxxis Assegai Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Kovee Elite 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Bontrager XR3 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Line Comp 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Bontrager XR4 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week

 

[Expidia]

If it helps, I have 5 sets of wheels and tires and they all will lost approximately 5psi or more per week. I got used to it and it forces me to fill up before each ride.

2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + SE5 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Maxxis Assegai Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
(Spare set) 2 x Bontrager Line Pro 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Maxxis Assegai Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Kovee Elite 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Bontrager XR3 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week
2 x Bontrager Line Comp 30 with Bontrager TLR Rim strip + Cushcore + Bontrager XR4 Tires - lose 5psi+ per week

Wow thanks for that descriptive response Kevin
2 days ago I did get a chance to spray down both wheels and the valve with soapy water and saw no leaks. I’m bringing it to the Trek store after some parts they ordered for me (a 35 mm stem down from the OEM 70mm) come in around Oct 20th. I’ll as them to immerse the wheels in a tub of water. I’m still losing air at twice the rate you are.

 

[Stihldog]

When I first got my Rail it came with tubeless ready Bontrager rims and tires. Suitable for my use at the time but I soon wore out the tire. I installed a set of Pirelli tires (f/r) suitable for the terrain. The rear tire needed a slight psi top up each time I rode(daily in the mountain). There was an extremely slow leak in the tire but sometimes I could ride for three days before I had to add psi.

I wore out that tire soon and eventually switched to Maxxis Assigia. The slight air loss persisted. I then decided to go on a search for the source of the problem. Armed with the special “e-bike” soap and water formula I removed the wheel and methodically sprayed every inch or possible source … and watched carefully.

There it was. Extremely small bubbles at the rim drain hole. Easily missed if the soap/water formula was not perfectly applied. I couldn’t understand why the air wasn’t escaping through the spoke nipples or valve. There had to be a few reasons for this, and I eventually found it.

Bontrager wheels were using a plastic rim ring rather than rim tape. Bontrager’s sealant likely sealed well but the plastic rim ring had one very small tear where a spoke hole is. Almost impossible to see and behaved like a flap with different psi or sealant. Any air that was able to escape through this ver small tear would exit slowly through the rim drain hole.

My solution; I used a proper width rim tape. Carefully applied. I mostly use air to breathe now.

 

[steve_sordy]

........ I’ll as them to immerse the wheels in a tub of water. I’m still losing air at twice the rate you are.

You don't need to immerse the whole wheel. All you need to cover is the tyre and the rim, so a washing up bowl will do. I use the water butt when it's full enough. Patience. Let it settle and slowly rotate the wheel. Because you have already tried a variety of stuff to find the leak, it won't be a big one, so go slowly and give yourself time to see the bubbles - they may not be in a constant stream.

 

[Expidia]

Thanks Stihl and Steve for those tips. Good tip on the the bubbles may not be constant. I’m printing out both of these tips and letting the Trek tech read them when my other parts come in next week.
My frustration is I purposely bought this Trek “equipped” version for like $1200 more just so I didn’t have to upgrade components down the road. When one upgrades a component it cost more than just the component because I already paid for the OEM component when I bought the bike (plus installation of the new component and now the old one is usually junk (tough to resell used stuff). So what ticks me off is all parts involved to hold the air are Bontrager (or sold by Trek).

I know full well if I went back to the Trek shop and I had installed my own better quality valves or another branded tire they would instantly blame the valve or the tire. I always worried that Trek’s TRL rims with the plastic rim strip would be a problem holding air. Now when I go back again and they tape the rims I’m going to be double charged for going tubeless.

I’ll probably have to ask for a manager. If they are not willing to work with me I’ll probably complain to Trek’s regional off and ask them to replace both wheels For not holding air with all Bontrager sold components. I’m probably over $8500 invested so far with a few upgrades and accessories . . . so I figure first and foremost the wheel and tires should at least hold air.

 

[folmonty]

I have two Powerflys. The first one I've already had the Trek company store convert it to tubeless last season. It came with the Tubeless Ready Bontrager Line Comp rims (no tape needed). But before I convert my 2nd bike over to the XR3's (I really like these tires) . . . I have done 2 Stan's 2-3 oz top offs since last summer before I brought it back to Trek again.

On 7/26/23 I told them I'm still losing about 10-12 lbs over a week or two (both wheels evenly) I have to re-inflate to 40 lbs each time. He did a recharge $12 (using my own large bottle of Stan's which I had purchased from them) and he also said he did tighten one of the valve collars that was a little loose, yet after another recharge over the past 2 months, I still lose 10 lbs every week or two with each tire. Is this normal? Should I have them tape the wheels and order better quality valve stems?

Thx

My Bontrager XR5's loose the same. Been adding 6 oz sealant every 5 months or so. Pre-ride pressure checks are just standard procedure. Most riders seem to vilify the XR5's but for me they do just fine.

 

[Stihldog]

Thanks Stihl and Steve for those tips. Good tip on the the bubbles may not be constant. I’m printing out both of these tips and letting the Trek tech read them when my other parts come in next week.
My frustration is I purposely bought this Trek “equipped” version for like $1200 more just so I didn’t have to upgrade components down the road. When one upgrades a component it cost more than just the component because I already paid for the OEM component when I bought the bike (plus installation of the new component and now the old one is usually junk (tough to resell used stuff). So what ticks me off is all parts involved to hold the air are Bontrager (or sold by Trek).

I know full well if I went back to the Trek shop and I had installed my own better quality valves or another branded tire they would instantly blame the valve or the tire. I always worried that Trek’s TRL rims with the plastic rim strip would be a problem holding air. Now when I go back again and they tape the rims I’m going to be double charged for going tubeless.

I’ll probably have to ask for a manager. If they are not willing to work with me I’ll probably complain to Trek’s regional off and ask them to replace both wheels For not holding air with all Bontrager sold components. I’m probably over $8500 invested so far with a few upgrades and accessories . . . so I figure first and foremost the wheel and tires should at least hold air.

I’ll always try to have faith in my lBS, and a few times they have surprised me with instant replacement, ignored my outdated warranty, or heavily reduced the price of upgrades.

I find that the “Mr. Nice Guy” approach works mostly for me. But if it doesn’t …

, I start fake crying infront of all their customers.

 

[Expidia]

Update: Was at a Trek company store today who got in for me a 35 mm stem (the OEM was 70mm). I asked yet another tech what could be the problem where I’m losing a pound of air a day. Two other techs there said it’s normal. I disagreed. They did the TRL tire swap last season.
This tech agreed with me that it is losing too much air. I said I read on a forum that even though the Bontrager rims come with these brown plastic inserts so no need for tape and it was also suggested to get better valves.

He agreed with me and he taped them with a wider tape and replaced the valves. He showed me where the old valves were round but the new ones he put in were a different model. They are also round but are square on the part that is in the tire.(they might have used the wrong valves last season).

He cleaned the tires all out and taped the rims, added Stan’s and they charged me $30 for all! Then they gave me a $20 store credit for future use.

The shorter stem so far turned my large frame closer to a medium frame, since I’m in the middle of frame sizes and the other medium Powerfly I also own fits me like a glove, so I figured I‘d try a shorter stem on the large.

Thanks for all the previous comments above.