Rail (625Wh) Trek Rail 9 upgrade Zeb to 2023 Charger 3 and Debonair+

[Dhmorelia]

Hi everyone,

I’m keen to upgrade my Rail 9 2021 Zeb Select+ internals to the new 2023 charger 3 damper and Debonair+ spring (with buttercups). I’ll stick to the same original 160mm travel. I understand that this is a straight forward process with the relevant upgrade kits.

Does anyone have experience with this? Will it balance ok with the original shock on the bike? Will there be an improvement in fork performance?

Please advise or provide feedback.
thanks in advance.

 

[Stihldog]

Not the same upgrade but I went from the Yari to Lyric upgrade kit. I also kept the 160mm travel. Noticeable difference and increased adjustment. Fine tuned the suspension with the ShoxWiz and app.

The Zeb Ultimate was my first choice but the price …oh man! I’m happy with the Lyric upgrade. At the time of the upgrade I was due for a fork service so I had them install the upgrade.

Btw, the Flight Attendant is available …it’s only $3000+. 🫣

 

[Dhmorelia]

Hi everyone,

So I upgraded my Zeb Select+ 2021 fork to both the new Charger 3 damper and the Debonair+ spring. The install process went smoothly, although I do have a very thin o-ring left over from the charger 3 kit. I suspect that it might fit under one of the control dials.

Bike feels good, but I haven’t had a chance to give it a good ride yet.

I thought others might like the info.

 

[greg_p]

Hello,
you were lucky to find a charger 3 damper upgrade, they are still out of any stock around here (western europe).
I recently changed my debonair to a debonair + (160mm) on a Zer with charger R. Very good move so far, it's way better in any sense.
The charger R version is just correct for my heavy ebike (lapierre am 7.6), and although just correct in Xcountry rides, long descent makes it very hard and bottoming a lot. Actually with a standard debonair, you are shared between giving more pressure and having hard front but just correct in busy descent, or making it more supple to get use of all the travel, with the expense of harshness when bottoming.
With the new debonair +, all is gone. Same pressure, 2 click less in rebound (that's all we have on the R damper), and I am even wondering if I will be buying the charger 3 when available.
The effects of the buttercup is also very noticeable and I like it. Actually if you don't feel it necessary, try it and we'll discuss that after.

I was also negatively impressed by the quality of factory assembly of the fork. It had just 250km when I swapped the air spring, but even if there was sufficient oil in the bottom, upper seals showed a naughty white grease unequally spread and not enough oil around the axe to allow a fluid motion on all the travel. First service after new is to be done as soon as possible...

 

[Lee c]

Hi everyone,

So I upgraded my Zeb Select+ 2021 fork to both the new Charger 3 damper and the Debonair+ spring. The install process went smoothly, although I do have a very thin o-ring left over from the charger 3 kit. I suspect that it might fit under one of the control dials.

Bike feels good, but I haven’t had a chance to give it a good ride yet.

I thought others might like the info.

Interested to hear your thoughts after a proper ride I’ve been tempted by the same upgrade

 

[Lee c]

Hello,
you were lucky to find a charger 3 damper upgrade, they are still out of any stock around here (western europe).
I recently changed my debonair to a debonair + (160mm) on a Zer with charger R. Very good move so far, it's way better in any sense.
The charger R version is just correct for my heavy ebike (lapierre am 7.6), and although just correct in Xcountry rides, long descent makes it very hard and bottoming a lot. Actually with a standard debonair, you are shared between giving more pressure and having hard front but just correct in busy descent, or making it more supple to get use of all the travel, with the expense of harshness when bottoming.
With the new debonair +, all is gone. Same pressure, 2 click less in rebound (that's all we have on the R damper), and I am even wondering if I will be buying the charger 3 when available.
The effects of the buttercup is also very noticeable and I like it. Actually if you don't feel it necessary, try it and we'll discuss that after.

I was also negatively impressed by the quality of factory assembly of the fork. It had just 250km when I swapped the air spring, but even if there was sufficient oil in the bottom, upper seals showed a naughty white grease unequally spread and not enough oil around the axe to allow a fluid motion on all the travel. First service after new is to be done as soon as possible...

Hi mate what are the differences between the old and new air spring

 

[greg_p]

Hard to tell, I didn't get a full ride on it, but I would say that with same pressure/same sag, it resist more on the big compression, slowing the dive. More progressive.
Edit:I just read that on 2023 zeb ultimate related to air spring
(You are being redirected... )

the midstroke support is way, way better if you’re running a more middle-of-the-road setup; that also means that you don’t need to make nearly the same kind of compromises in terms of small-bump sensitivity to achieve a setup that offers more support if that’s what you’re after. And that was my biggest complaint with the original ZEB — it did a lot of things well, but it didn’t stay up in its travel as well as I would have liked, particularly on steeper, moderate-speed sections of trail where you’re needing to use a lot of brake control and are putting a lot of weight on the front wheel, but aren’t actually hitting anything particularly hard.

The old ZEB felt prone to diving and pitching the bike forward — not what you want when you’re already hanging off the back of the bike — unless I ran quite a bit more air pressure than recommended, which compromised both small-bump sensitivity and my ability to use full travel. I’m happy to leave a bit of travel on the table to achieve the performance I want in other regards — using every possible millimeter is really not that important, as a performance criteria — but I had a hard time achieving a balance of support and sensitivity that I was happy with.

The new ZEB has thoroughly addressed that complaint.

I just can agree with that, it translates correctly my feelings about the debonair+ (i'm not a great english writer).

 

[Lee c]

Hard to tell, I didn't get a full ride on it, but I would say that with same pressure/same sag, it resist more on the big compression, slowing the dive. More progressive.
Edit:I just read that on 2023 zeb ultimate related to air spring
(You are being redirected... )

A worthwhile upgrade then mate



I just can agree with that, it translates correctly my feelings about the debonair+ (i'm not a great english writer).

 

[SandroRiz]

I did today the first test ride unfortunately on trails not in perfect conditions (snow, wet leaves, etc.)
I don't know if before I had a bad fork, or maybe if it's a placebo effect, but now it seems another Zeb!! Plush as butter!! It remembers me when 10 yrs ago I changed my orrible Fox Talas with a Pike, same level of upgrade!
I'm very light (52Kg naked... maybe 53 in these days of italian Panettone and sparkling spumante!), so I have only problem to find sensivity on small bumps and low speed because I cannot go down too much with air pressure (the manufacturer of Vorssprung told me they did special setups of very light women, because forks are built for average ~70 kg rider). But now even with more pressure (I had to go up 6 or 7 psi) as before I pass over roots and small rocks like a cushion.
Maybe I will try with a token (now I'm without) to see how it change, even if the mid support is still good with zero.

The only doubt is that it "eats" a lot of travel (1 cm ore more) when stationary and sometimes I found it with sag close to 10% without me being on the bike (basically it doesn't fully re-extend). Can it be a bad assembly of my shop?
If it was a drawback to have it so plush, I would keep it like this without problems, only having known it beforehand I would have bought the 170 shaft instead of the original 160.

Even my carbon rims, thanks to the buttercups, seem less harsh to me, but here maybe it's really placebo!!

However delighted and a nice gift from Santa! Merry Christmas to all.

 

[greg_p]

It’s strange that you have a 1cm sag when not on the bike. Do you trust you hp pump manometer? Seems that it’s just too low. Or positive and negatives chambers are isolated. Worth a check at your local shop with a techos

 

[BobMtnBkr]

I did today the first test ride unfortunately on trails not in perfect conditions (snow, wet leaves, etc.)
I don't know if before I had a bad fork, or maybe if it's a placebo effect, but now it seems another Zeb!! Plush as butter!! It remembers me when 10 yrs ago I changed my orrible Fox Talas with a Pike, same level of upgrade!
I'm very light (52Kg naked... maybe 53 in these days of italian Panettone and sparkling spumante!), so I have only problem to find sensivity on small bumps and low speed because I cannot go down too much with air pressure (the manufacturer of Vorssprung told me they did special setups of very light women, because forks are built for average ~70 kg rider). But now even with more pressure (I had to go up 6 or 7 psi) as before I pass over roots and small rocks like a cushion.
Maybe I will try with a token (now I'm without) to see how it change, even if the mid support is still good with zero.

The only doubt is that it "eats" a lot of travel (1 cm ore more) when stationary and sometimes I found it with sag close to 10% without me being on the bike (basically it doesn't fully re-extend). Can it be a bad assembly of my shop?
If it was a drawback to have it so plush, I would keep it like this without problems, only having known it beforehand I would have bought the 170 shaft instead of the original 160.

Even my carbon rims, thanks to the buttercups, seem less harsh to me, but here maybe it's really placebo!!

However delighted and a nice gift from Santa! Merry Christmas to all.

View attachment 103471

Possibly your air chambers are unbalanced. Don't fill up the air spring all at once. Add 10-15 psi and cycle the fork up and down to allow air to pass between chambers. Add another 10-15 and cycle up and down again. Repeat as necessary until you have the correct pressure.

 

[monty1991]

hello could you post the part numbers? im thinking of fitting these to my Domain forks when ther in getting serviced

 

[SandroRiz]

hello could you post the part numbers? im thinking of fitting these to my Domain forks when ther in getting serviced

I think only ZEB are eligble (nor Lyirk, neither Pike). Anyway:

Charger 3 RC2
-00.4318.063.002 AM UPGRADE KIT CHRGR3 RC2 BC ZEB A1
DebonAir+
-00.4318.066.003 AM UPGR DB+ BC ZEB A1- 160
(both have already buttercups)

In case:
-00.4318.066.002 AM UPGR DB+ BC ZEB A1- 170
-00.4318.066.001 AM UPGR DB+ BC ZEB A1- 180

 

[Planemo]

Correct, the Zeb airspring wont fit the Domain.

 

[monty1991]

Correct, the Zeb airspring wont fit the Domain.

But the damper should? Ive seen a few people upgrade ther domain to Zeb 2.1 damper

 

[Planemo]

Absolutely, damper no problem.