The smallest Pole ever? Voima K0 as small as possible ;)

[THA]

I think Pole Voima K0 is the smallest bike pole ever made. Probably the smallest long travel eMtb on the markets. This is loooong bike, but the geometry makes it plausable to someone like me, although some shrinking process was necessary...

I finally got everything together:
- 35 mm Stem
- 720 mm handlebar
- Cube saddle, very much in front
- RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil DH with 250 lbs/in coil
- 190 mm Zeb with 30 lbs/in coil
- Magura MT7 brakes
- Shimano trigger
- OneUp 120 mm (OEM)
- Mullet with Deemax wheels (OEM)
- Pepi's inserts and 0,8 bar pressures

With Voima there just wasn't any need for lock-up, so I chose DH shock. HBO adjustment needed customized allen key
Now it fits to OneUp EDC mini's tool holder
And how this beast behaves in trails? This in incredible!

 

[Plummet]

Nice.

I'd council you to cut the steerer down. That looks like a knee smasher if you crash.

The stupid long rear chainstay is bound to be limiting for shorter people. At 5,11 on a k1, I find it too long. I cant help but think the K0 bike will be a bit unbalanced because the haven't shortened the chainstay to match the reduce size of the rest of the bike.

 

[THA]

Nice.

I'd council you to cut the steerer down. That looks like a knee smasher if you crash.

The stupid long rear chainstay is bound to be limiting for shorter people. At 5,11 on a k1, I find it too long. I cant help but think the K0 bike will be a bit unbalanced because the haven't shortened the chainstay to match the reduce size of the rest of the bike.

My knee barely reaches 10 cm behind the +/- button I normally keep my phone sideways below that and this far (198 km) I never hit the phone

But I understand Your point. I'm just not yet ready to cut the steerer, still looking for the optimal setup. Now when I have set up the fork lenght-wise, I can start narrowing down best height for the stack. At the moment handlebar lies too low even with 29er and my other front wheel is 275.

About chainstay I disagree. It's actually shortish for as long as 190 mm travel. You guess You might mix chainstay and virtual pivot point. Latter makes Voima "swallow everything" - among other Sensei features. Something I love in this bike. When I try to manual (suck on any ebike), I get the front end about 0,5 m up - best this far on the category. But technique is somewhat different: with Voima You need focus more on pushing the bike forward (that's just I have figured this out).

I've lost rear end in uphill sections on every ride at least once. Then I tell myself "stop leaning forward You stupid - this isn't gonna throw You on Your back" - and try again -> fantastic grip, front wheel "planted", yippee
I'm 1,5 m and You're like 1,77 correct? I don't think K0 would be Your choice, even with very long stem and saddle.

 

[Plummet]

My knee barely reaches 10 cm behind the +/- button I normally keep my phone sideways below that and this far (198 km) I never hit the phone

But I understand Your point. I'm just not yet ready to cut the steerer, still looking for the optimal setup. Now when I have set up the fork lenght-wise, I can start narrowing down best height for the stack. At the moment handlebar lies too low even with 29er and my other front wheel is 275.

About chainstay I disagree. It's actually shortish for as long as 190 mm travel. You guess You might mix chainstay and virtual pivot point. Latter makes Voima "swallow everything" - among other Sensei features. Something I love in this bike. When I try to manual (suck on any ebike), I get the front end about 0,5 m up - best this far on the category. But technique is somewhat different: with Voima You need focus more on pushing the bike forward (that's just I have figured this out).

I've lost rear end in uphill sections on every ride at least once. Then I tell myself "stop leaning forward You stupid - this isn't gonna throw You on Your back" - and try again -> fantastic grip, front wheel "planted", yippee
I'm 1,5 m and You're like 1,77 correct? I don't think K0 would be Your choice, even with very long stem and saddle.

Good stuff, your happy and thats all that matters. and hell no ko would be too small for me.

Re spinning the rear uphill over technical features. Try lower cadence higher gear and speed up to the feature then low cadence over the roots/rocks.

 

[THA]

Today some Sappee bike park rides. In berms this "machine" temps me to increase the speed well above my skills. But I also noticed how significantly Voima is tempting rider to lean in on curves - any kind of curves. I didn't figure this out yet, but there is definitely something in the geometry that's makes leaning in so natural. And that's kind of funny feature, because mtb bicycles are normally quite opposite... so need to go deeper on physics with Voima... or I just ignore physics and focus on riding - what a beast he is <3 (sorry gents, not "she" from my point of view )

 

[Mabman]

If as you say the natural tendency of the Volma is to want to lean into corners then you might explore the use of countersteering? Or maybe you already do but I know it works on motorcycles that like to lean and I have used it to good effect on bikes with + tires on the front.

 

[THA]

If as you say the natural tendency of the Volma is to want to lean into corners then you might explore the use of countersteering? Or maybe you already do but I know it works on motorcycles that like to lean and I have used it to good effect on bikes with + tires on the front.

I know I'm contersteereing, it started with my first-ever eMtb, the Haibike 9.0 Dwnhll, in 2021. When I first time ever tried lift assisted enduro /bikepeark /berms. And I just did some math, high BB + a lot of room lean. The bike gives over 15 degrees extra freedom (I tend to ride inside leg forward and a bit higher than opposite leg).
There is no need to lower the stack under handlebar - in contrarily lifting handlebar makes possible to have the same freedom with my arms as I have with the frame. Also easier to descent and ascent, because with Voima there is absolutely no issue with with uphill - except my tendency to lean forward and thus loose rear grip.

 

[Plummet]

Today some Sappee bike park rides. In berms this "machine" temps me to increase the speed well above my skills. But I also noticed how significantly Voima is tempting rider to lean in on curves - any kind of curves. I didn't figure this out yet, but there is definitely something in the geometry that's makes leaning in so natural. And that's kind of funny feature, because mtb bicycles are normally quite opposite... so need to go deeper on physics with Voima... or I just ignore physics and focus on riding - what a beast he is <3 (sorry gents, not "she" from my point of view )

Have you ridden a downhill bike before? The Voima feels like a heavy downhill bike to ride down. And so it should. It's similar travel and angles.

So yes, it should take you faster than you've gone before. It is a monster. Ride it like you stole it.

Ps I dont buy the higher stack under the stem for the Voima. It's already dh bike high. I tested and didnt like it. So slammed it back down.

 

[THA]

Have you ridden a downhill bike before? The Voima feels like a heavy downhill bike to ride down. And so it should. It's similar travel and angles.

So yes, it should take you faster than you've gone before. It is a monster. Ride it like you stole it.

Ps I dont buy the higher stack under the stem for the Voima. It's already dh bike high. I tested and didnt like it. So slammed it back down.

Yes, my first ebike too, with 200 mm Boxxer, Haibike 9.0 Dwnhll. I find very little similarities in these, steering geometry and long travel only.
I also still have my 20+ years old "historic", with -99 Boxxer - 6" travel and coils on both tubes

Voima stock wheels and tires are quite strong, and heavy. With trail wheels this Voima doesn't feel heavy at all. And in fact it isn't, it's just 25,1 kg. And I have coil Zeb - that's +340 g, RS coil 250 +435 g (shock's weight app. same) - so with stock suspension it would be only 24,3 kg. Which is, IMO very little for a 750 Wh 85 Nm 12s 190 mm long travel bike.

Optimal stack/bar height depends highly on personal preferences and body measures. I didn't mean in general and I know many are quite comfortable with lower stack.
I rose mine yesterday 5 mm and it was better, will rise 5 mm more tomorrow. And keep rising it as long as feel keeps getting better - or when I reach the point when I loose the front before back on flat. This far I've ever lost front

 

[Plummet]

Yes, my first ebike too, with 200 mm Boxxer, Haibike 9.0 Dwnhll. I find very little similarities in these, steering geometry and long travel only.
I also still have my 20+ years old "historic", with -99 Boxxer - 6" travel and coils on both tubes

Voima stock wheels and tires are quite strong, and heavy. With trail wheels this Voima doesn't feel heavy at all. And in fact it isn't, it's just 25,1 kg. And I have coil Zeb - that's +340 g, RS coil 250 +435 g (shock's weight app. same) - so with stock suspension it would be only 24,3 kg. Which is, IMO very little for a 750 Wh 85 Nm 12s 190 mm long travel bike.

Optimal stack/bar height depends highly on personal preferences and body measures. I didn't mean in general and I know many are quite comfortable with lower stack.
I rose mine yesterday 5 mm and it was better, will rise 5 mm more tomorrow. And keep rising it as long as feel keeps getting better - or when I reach the point when I loose the front before back on flat. This far I've ever lost front

Fair enough. Sounds like you are dialing into the bike. Mine is on 25.2kg k1 size

including pedals. I'm running ext arma, enve foundation wheels, renthal carbo bar/stem combo.

 

[THA]

Fair enough. Sounds like you are dialing into the bike. Mine is on 25.2kg k1 size View attachment 125384 including pedals. I'm running ext arma, enve foundation wheels, renthal carbo bar/stem combo.

That's nice weight! Ok, You have like 300 g lighter shock assy, lighter wheels, heavier tires. And I've Garbaruk cassette on commuting wheel set (345 g - not a choice based on weight, I'm not politically active, but human rights... case Ukraine... really hearts me)

 

[Plummet]

That's nice weight! Ok, You have like 300 g lighter shock assy, lighter wheels, heavier tires. And I've Garbaruk cassette on commuting wheel set (345 g - not a choice based on weight, I'm not politically active, but human rights... case Ukraine... really hearts me)

Front is 2.5 assgay exo+ rather tha dd or dh wall. Back tire is big betty 2.5 gravity wall.

 

[THA]

Assegai and and 3C I suppose - I tend to finnish offroad tires on commuting wheels and this 3C really frustrates me, horrible in "coldish" conditions, impossible in freezing conditions and bad everywhere else than pure downhill.... but in roots, rocks, whatever, what a fantastic grip! I also have Exo+ + DD set (DHR) set, so I know where You're

 

[Plummet]

Assegai and and 3C I suppose - I tend to finnish offroad tires on commuting wheels and this 3C really frustrates me, horrible in "coldish" conditions, impossible in freezing conditions and bad everywhere else than pure downhill.... but in roots, rocks, whatever, what a fantastic grip! I also have Exo+ + DD set (DHR) set, so I know where You're

Apart from maybe one random ride in the snow per year i'm all roots, loam and some rocks temps typically 12-25°c. So max grip from, max terra or equivalent rear are the go too compounds around here.

 

[mustclime]

Stand over is still to high, guessing you have it at about 825mm. Anything over 775mm is not the best for tech riding.

 

[THA]

Stand over is still to high, guessing you have it at about 825mm. Anything over 775mm is not the best for tech riding.

Well there is no bike with stan dover under 650 mm - unless looking for 100 mm travel kid's bike. For me the lowest point to stand over the bike in above rear wheel (inseam 690 mm, with shoes on). Next lowest point is over the saddle. But lucky me, I lack the "external equipment between my legs"

 

[THA]

I gave him treatment he deserved, rocks and roots, mud and tight trail, smallish drops - and careful wash afterwards
Even though fork damper has way too harsh midvalve for someone my weight, it's still the best I have founs- unless Avalanche taken into account. I wonder why 190 Zeb isn't listed, but Boxxer 38 is...

 

[THA]

This is what's going on in the midvalve: 15x.15 shim has quite forgiving 0,35 mm float, after that untill 1,2 mm bends over app. 7,5 mm notch and then sudden change over app. 10 mm spring (bottoms at 1,2 mm). Regardless of exact measures, this behavior is far from continuous curve that should occur right after float stroke have been reached.
- micrometer might be as old as I, but well maintained and accurate

 

[THA]

This piece enters to my super-Zeb tomorrow... I just decided I won't care anymore, I just want my Voima to be as perfect as possible, as soon as possible. Someone might be interested to make this commercial, for me this unique piece is just what I need - so I'll continue ... proper midvalve shim setting, then compression, rebound is quite easy to get close enough... I'm all open to help anyone below any weight schedules in order to find nice suspension setup w/ coil Zeb and custom damper

 

[Zimmerframe]

Are you trying to make @Bimbleball jealous ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

This piece enters to my super-Zeb tomorrow... I just decided I won't care anymore, I just want my Voima to be as perfect as possible, as soon as possible.

You know most of us are men - therefore we struggle to even know which way to twist our knobs to make things perform better .......

But seriously, nice work !!!!! Hope it does what you want and it will be interesting to hear your feedback on it.

You previously ruled out double crown ? You don't think you could make a Dorado work seen as you want perfection ? (it's jut an example).

 

[THA]

You know most of us are men - therefore we struggle to even know which way to twist our knobs to make things perform better .......

But seriously, nice work !!!!! Hope it does what you want and it will be interesting to hear your feedback on it.

You previously ruled out double crown ? You don't think you could make a Dorado work seen as you want perfection ? (it's jut an example).

Love You (Y) - correct, double crown brings so many new issues on-board. I would love to get brand new 35 mm coil boxxer w/ Avalanche. Dorado is way too heavy. But since NZL Dougal felt offended about my questions, Craig / Ava was honest that open cartridge isn't optimal for Zeb, this is the only way left to get significant chance before winter comes.

 

[THA]

Are you trying to make @Bimbleball jealous ?

No, I'm not. This is a huge investment to a bike, I had the similar limit 3 years ago, when purchasing my first emtb. Totally understandable, but hunger grows as You keep getting better and better...

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yup, Dorado is shocking heavy (no pun intended).

I had it on my list to try until I checked the weight.

I have a Zeb on the way, but just ordered a 38 (having actually bothered to do a bit more research on how they work). I think the 38 might be better for a lighter rider with the smaller air shaft. Though everything is ultimately compromises, so won't really know until I've tried them.

But since NZL Dougal felt offended about my questions

Didn't realise you'd had issues, thought that sounded like a positive way to go, though you may have just done the logical thing and done it yourself ?

Can't you just say "Leo - cnc me a new damper" ?

If it helps, Dougal just means this to me :

I know FAST suspension are making their own coil fork, but it's based on the X-Fusion Trace 36, so presumably will be 170 max and single crown so not really on your option list.

 

[Kimmoi]

I think Pole Voima K0 is the smallest bike pole ever made. Probably the smallest long travel eMtb on the markets. This is loooong bike, but the geometry makes it plausable to someone like me, although some shrinking process was necessary...

I finally got everything together:
- 35 mm Stem
- 720 mm handlebar
- Cube saddle, very much in front
- RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil DH with 250 lbs/in coil
- 190 mm Zeb with 30 lbs/in coil
- Magura MT7 brakes
- Shimano trigger
- OneUp 120 mm (OEM)
- Mullet with Deemax wheels (OEM)
- Pepi's inserts and 0,8 bar pressures

With Voima there just wasn't any need for lock-up, so I chose DH shock. HBO adjustment needed customized allen key
Now it fits to OneUp EDC mini's tool holder
And how this beast behaves in trails? This in incredible!

View attachment 125271 Aaaand it's still too big for you? That saddle...

 

[ebikerider]

Dorado Expert is 3.1kg
Zeb with smashpot 2.9kg

The difference of 200gms is more than acceptable as soon as you ride the Dorado's. They are better in every way.

 

[THA]

Dorado Expert is 3.1kg
Zeb with smashpot 2.9kg

The difference of 200gms is more than acceptable as soon as you ride the Dorado's. They are better in every way.

Yes, that's true, but Zeb with Smashpot felt terribly heavy already. But Dorado it's still just an air spring, right?
My Zeb with boxxer x-soft coil is only 2,720 g. And there is so much You can do with shim stacks, to make Zeb a lot better - even without any custom parts. So I would first try custom tuning, rather than add even more weight (800 g difference between the air forks...).

 

[ebikerider]

Yes, that's true, but Zeb with Smashpot felt terribly heavy already. But Dorado it's still just an air spring, right?
My Zeb with boxxer x-soft coil is only 2,720 g. And there is so much You can do with shim stacks, to make Zeb a lot better - even without any custom parts. So I would first try custom tuning, rather than add even more weight (800 g difference between the air forks...).

Honestly they don't compare. I had by Zeb's bushings sized, custom tuned damper and the smashpot and the standard Dorado destroys it. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't waste time on the Zeb if a Dorado was an option.

 

[THA]

Honestly they don't compare. I had by Zeb's bushings sized, custom tuned damper and the smashpot and the standard Dorado destroys it. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't waste time on the Zeb if a Dorado was an option.

Fair enough, You have experience indeed. I have never tried Dorado, but on the other hand, I suppose You are a lot heavier than 54 kg. For my weight getting rid of air spring added friction and progressiveness of pressure force in lower leg was the hugest improvement - Dorado might solve the latter one (depending on structure), but there will always be some added friction. And as weather is getting colder now rapidly, air springs become worse every day.
I just don't have any faith left to waste a cent more to any air system...

 

[Onetime]

Honestly they don't compare. I had by Zeb's bushings sized, custom tuned damper and the smashpot and the standard Dorado destroys it. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't waste time on the Zeb if a Dorado was an option.

How’s the turning radius with a Dorado on a Voima? I have a 40 on mine and I regularly hit the bump stops on tight turns and I imagine it would be worse with the bigger tubes up top. I was considering getting an intend shock and infinity fork, but when I inquired about the distance between the top tubes in the clamps on the fork, the distance on the infinity was 110mm which was 6mm closer closer together than my 40 which would have limited my turning radius even more than it is now. So I had to scrap my plans on the full intend suspension. But it’s ok, because I love my 40 and X2 anyway. I was just curious to try something different.