steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Happy New Year at Wanapop
The Best ebikes for 2024
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Plummet
Flash Git
Oh man. You could not be further from the truth. I am a tech and steep riding specialist. That is my happy place. I only ride fire roads to get to the tech. Stand over height is never, ever and issue when riding.
I also don't always ride a. E-bike. I'm 50/50 with my mtb. Here's s few shots of some mtb tech done recently.
I will be to differ. If you are slamming your nuts on the top tube when it goes wrong you will slam them High tt or low tt. I personally am not short, but my 15yo boy is and i have a few short mates who rip. None of them are limited but tt height in any excessive way.
Also when. You look at the voima design you notice that's optimized about as well as it can be given the travel. It's simply physics. You need extra height for the extra travel. All big travel bikes are like this. When you add e in to the mix you have motor and battery to shoehorn in there too. It significantly reduces placement of the Pivots and massive 250x75 shock that's required for that amount to travel.
Pole have optimized this bike as well as practical for tt height. I guess their Is a possibility to mount the shock onto the down tube and get a couple of cm more of tt stand over. But then you would give away drink bottle storage.
Plummet
Flash Git
Very nice.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
@Plummet Wow! That second pic has an abrupt transition from drop to level. The steepness of that drop doesn't put me off, but that transition sure does! 
My suspension is just not set up for that sort of transition at the speed you would be going at.
That third pic looks daunting; it is probably one of the few pics I have seen where I can see that it is definitely "a bit of a bugger". Even the alternate route available looks challenging, but that may be distortion of the lens. I would have to scope it out in person.
Your last pic looks more like the sort of thing I would do without too much bother, but the camera nearly always lies.
Great pics though!
My suspension is just not set up for that sort of transition at the speed you would be going at.That third pic looks daunting; it is probably one of the few pics I have seen where I can see that it is definitely "a bit of a bugger". Even the alternate route available looks challenging, but that may be distortion of the lens. I would have to scope it out in person.
Your last pic looks more like the sort of thing I would do without too much bother, but the camera nearly always lies.
Great pics though!
I wouldn't consider that particularly steep or abrupt from the photo, having certainly learned that photos rarely give terrain justice.
There is a local drop with a terrible lead in and it's about 14' down. To top it off the trails leading to this drop are easy XC trails, meaning that's usually the bike you are riding there. In a video I saw online it looked 7' at the most and totally easy.
Still Plummet's terrain is different than mine. It's wet with loam soil in some places, smoother overall, more elevation. Just different and I'm sure I'd be intimidated by the stuff he finds if I ever was lucky enough to ride there.
My terrain looks much closer to 'mustclime's spots in NJ. Mostly slow going, but chunky, ledgey, slippery, skinny, hard to keep momentum going, etc.
There is a local drop with a terrible lead in and it's about 14' down. To top it off the trails leading to this drop are easy XC trails, meaning that's usually the bike you are riding there. In a video I saw online it looked 7' at the most and totally easy.
Still Plummet's terrain is different than mine. It's wet with loam soil in some places, smoother overall, more elevation. Just different and I'm sure I'd be intimidated by the stuff he finds if I ever was lucky enough to ride there.
My terrain looks much closer to 'mustclime's spots in NJ. Mostly slow going, but chunky, ledgey, slippery, skinny, hard to keep momentum going, etc.
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Sounds like a couple of my ex's all merged into one sentence ..
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
We know that the camera lies. But the terrain can lie too. There is a feature on the red trail in Gisburn Forest in the UK. It is actually to one side of the red and is rated black. From memory it is called "The Slab" at Whelpstone Crag. From the top it looks like a 70-degree rocky drop-off, opening out onto rock slabs. It is not very high, maybe 20' high. You can't roll into it as the entrance is a sharp right angle between two rock pillars. (Well, I couldn't!) So there you are, stationary, looking down, psyching yourself out. Crowds gather to watch because the red trail passes by the feature. They are all looking for blood!
But it is an optical illusion! It is not steep at all. The descent is made from big rock slabs. Each slab is wider at the top than the bottom, and they follow each other. So, the perspective from the top makes it looks as though the drop is steeper than it is. In actual fact it is only about 30%, tops. This can be seen from the many videos shot from the side. Spectators sit there wondering what the problem is! For those at the top for the first time however, it is another matter!
My first time was in 2012 and I remember shaking as I launched off on my spindly 32mm forks. I was surprised at how easy it was, so the later second attempt was a doddle. I haven't bothered to do it again, not worth the effort of getting to it!
This is the best YouTube vid I could find. It is from 2010, it shows the awkward drop in and the appearance of steepness. You only need to watch the first 30 seconds or so.
This is the best YouTube vid I could find that clearly shows how easy it is, but the first rider gives the game away by his comment after he had completed the drop. This was also shot 13 years ago. I couldn't find anything more recent. It is less than 30 seconds long.
Finally, this pic is me 12 years ago.
Doesn't it look easy! But I too could smell my own fear! I hadn't been riding for very long.
And again the following year on a different bike. No full-face helmet this time.
But it is an optical illusion! It is not steep at all. The descent is made from big rock slabs. Each slab is wider at the top than the bottom, and they follow each other. So, the perspective from the top makes it looks as though the drop is steeper than it is. In actual fact it is only about 30%, tops. This can be seen from the many videos shot from the side. Spectators sit there wondering what the problem is! For those at the top for the first time however, it is another matter!
My first time was in 2012 and I remember shaking as I launched off on my spindly 32mm forks. I was surprised at how easy it was, so the later second attempt was a doddle. I haven't bothered to do it again, not worth the effort of getting to it!
This is the best YouTube vid I could find. It is from 2010, it shows the awkward drop in and the appearance of steepness. You only need to watch the first 30 seconds or so.
This is the best YouTube vid I could find that clearly shows how easy it is, but the first rider gives the game away by his comment after he had completed the drop. This was also shot 13 years ago. I couldn't find anything more recent. It is less than 30 seconds long.
Finally, this pic is me 12 years ago.
Doesn't it look easy! But I too could smell my own fear! I hadn't been riding for very long.
And again the following year on a different bike. No full-face helmet this time.
Dude Sends videos of himself doing drops, pictures of him rolling over a bone dry rock and thinks he's a legend... Likes to put people down, No idea of there background, skill set. Propper plonker...
To your point, theres a reason my trials bike is no higher than my knee, and my enduro bike sits lower than my gsxr 1000, but your flogging a dead horse mate
Plummet
Flash Git
I can confirm bottom out on the minimal transition.... both fork and tire to rim!... it was harsh. Also tilt your phone until the post is vertical. That gives the actual steepness.@Plummet Wow! That second pic has an abrupt transition from drop to level. The steepness of that drop doesn't put me off, but that transition sure does!
That third pic looks daunting; it is probably one of the few pics I have seen where I can see that it is definitely "a bit of a bugger". Even the alternate route available looks challenging, but that may be distortion of the lens. I would have to scope it out in person.
Your last pic looks more like the sort of thing I would do without too much bother, but the camera nearly always lies.
Great pics though!
Plummet
Flash Git
Yeah, photo's only give a snap shot.
Amusingly, none of those photos are at my local. 2 are from my recent Tasmania trip and the other is Alexandra 1000km away from me. I do also ride a lot of slow tight sometimes wet and slippery jank aswell. Just don't have any images in my phone at the mo.
Plummet
Flash Git
Solid!We know that the camera lies. But the terrain can lie too. There is a feature on the red trail in Gisburn Forest in the UK. It is actually to one side of the red and is rated black. From memory it is called "The Slab" at Whelpstone Crag. From the top it looks like a 70-degree rocky drop-off, opening out onto rock slabs. It is not very high, maybe 20' high. You can't roll into it as the entrance is a sharp right angle between two rock pillars. (Well, I couldn't!) So there you are, stationary, looking down, psyching yourself out. Crowds gather to watch because the red trail passes by the feature. They are all looking for blood!
But it is an optical illusion! It is not steep at all. The descent is made from big rock slabs. Each slab is wider at the top than the bottom, and they follow each other. So, the perspective from the top makes it looks as though the drop is steeper than it is. In actual fact it is only about 30%, tops. This can be seen from the many videos shot from the side. Spectators sit there wondering what the problem is! For those at the top for the first time however, it is another matter!
My first time was in 2012 and I remember shaking as I launched off on my spindly 32mm forks. I was surprised at how easy it was, so the later second attempt was a doddle. I haven't bothered to do it again, not worth the effort of getting to it!
This is the best YouTube vid I could find. It is from 2010, it shows the awkward drop in and the appearance of steepness. You only need to watch the first 30 seconds or so.
This is the best YouTube vid I could find that clearly shows how easy it is, but the first rider gives the game away by his comment after he had completed the drop. This was also shot 13 years ago. I couldn't find anything more recent. It is less than 30 seconds long.
Finally, this pic is me 12 years ago.
View attachment 132257
Doesn't it look easy! But I too could smell my own fear! I hadn't been riding for very long.
And again the following year on a different bike. No full-face helmet this time.
View attachment 132256
Plummet
Flash Git
I call it how I see it. Then back up by calls with evidence. The only person name calling here is you.
Your quite right, and i apologise, lowered myself for a min.. It's good to be confident and a bit cocky, Especially To race, or fight. But... you really shouldent presume, your better or even more knowledgeable than the next man, then post it and not expect a reaction. the so say evidence youve posted definitely didnt back up your mouth re crestline.. Also a lower Top tube, Seat height is definately better for steep tech, it's the reason bikes are built low...
Plummet
Flash Git
I accept your apology and will take on your comments. If we were having this conversation on the trail head it would be a completely different vibe. One of my limitations is that i'm not that good at getting what is in my brain into written words. So usually i stuff it up or it sound harsher than I intend.
I agree that low seat is a must for steep tech. Low TT is less important. The point I was trying to make is that Pole has the designed the voima as well as they could given the dimensional limitations of a 190mm E bike. The front end and bb will be higher than a lower travel bike. It is what it is. Its not a poorly design bike for tall people only as mustclime was trying to proclaim. Also once you spend time on the bike you realize its actually kick ass at steep tech.
I don’t think that 160/170 qualifies as long travel. I think 160/170 is more mid travel. The Standard Voima is 190/190, (mine is 190/200). I think anything 180/180 or over would be considered long travel. And that Unno has a low top tube, but more importantly, the seat tube is too long. So you can’t really get it as low as you would want on super steep tech. The seat tube is higher than the top of the rear wheel! Now go back and look at Plummets mullet Voima and you’ll see that the seat tube is lower than the top of the rear wheel. That is a much more relevant measurement.
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Where are you getting that measurement? At the head tube? Who ever stands with the bike between their legs at the head tube? Look at the height just in front of the seat, that is where you would be standing on the bike, and the Voima is much lower than most e-bikes at that spot.
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When you start thinking about suspension design, things get get locked down pretty quickly. You set the bb hight, that sets lower pivot point, then you set the rear wheel location….. from there you have to workout the type of suspension it’s going to be. As a short legged old man, I have found suspension designs that mount the shock to the bottom toptube end up having high stand over numbers. My Kenevo has a stand over of 799mm, the shock location is the reason specialized can’t make a S1 size. The shock location on the pole is the limiting factor on standover, the only way the could lower the top tube with out redesigning the suspension is do what Yamaha did in their bikes. They split the top tube and put shock in it.
jbrown15
Well-known member
So do you have to arch your back when you're standing to get your ass to get under the front of your saddle to be able to realistically meet these supposed standover heights that your showing?.....lol
Why don't they show that standover height at the middle point of the reach which is usually where you're standing over the bike. If I measure my Voima with a mullet setup at the same point I would say that the standover is 760mm, which is kind of inline with the Ferrari Timp Peak ebike's geo that you've posted.
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jbrown15
Well-known member
The MITH has what I would consider a long seat tube length which is something else to consider if you're that worried about stand over height. It's 40mm long than a similar frame size Voima for example. The smallest S1 frame has a 440mm seat tube. Their S2 has 460mm and the S3 jumps up to a massive 490mm.
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Plummet
Flash Git
I think we need to compare apples with apples. Load up some 180mm+ E bikes and lets compare.......
More important than who is the best rider, is who wants to ride with someone who struts around trying to convince everyone he's the best rider?
Imagine... He'd have you taking pictures, Doing videos of him every 5 mins... Be like a cameraman...
You do realize you are telling someone with short legs that stand over isn’t an issue. Do you tell people that have lost a leg what’s it like to have no leg? I am glad you can ride a pole bike, I sadly find the top tube to high. Tell you what, go out and have your legs shortened so you have a 28 inch inseam, then tell me about stand over and if it’s important. Now if you will excuse me, I have tell my wife her monthly visitor is not that big of a deal.
Plummet
Flash Git
You two remind me of these Muppets.
Get out there and ride some bikes and have fun. Post of some pics of your rides. I want to see them.
jbrown15
Well-known member
You've missed the point of my post, your original statement was that a Voima is only for tall people. I'm 5'8" with a short inseam. I have zero issues riding a K1 frame size. Your post was inaccurate, then you post about a MITH saying that long travel ebikes with low standover exist. And again I'm point out that's not really true.You do realize you are telling someone with short legs that stand over isn’t an issue. Do you tell people that have lost a leg what’s it like to have no leg? I am glad you can ride a pole bike, I sadly find the top tube to high. Tell you what, go out and have your legs shortened so you have a 28 inch inseam, then tell me about stand over and if it’s important. Now if you will excuse me, I have tell my wife her monthly visitor is not that big of a deal.
How you perceive my post is up to you, a MITH is NOT what I would consider a long travel ebike and you would probably have the same issues riding it as you would a Voima. It's what I would consider standard for a enduro style ebike, but of course how much travel equates to an enduro style ebike us up for debate.
Until you've thrown a leg over a K0 or K1 ebike you can't say "they're built for tall people". It's a ridiculous statement.
Ha, Yes We talking about a muppet... When i get time to ride, i ride... iv got trophies that say i can ride a bike, Dont need to ask my mates to take pictures to try look like i can, All youve done with those pictures is tell me your mouth way bigger than your skill set. turn off the camera, get some rider coaching...
Gents, I'm the Muppet ... 
Whilst this is all amusing, maybe it's time to accept that what we write is often miss-interpreted (or sometimes we just write dumb sh1t) and that you all share the same passion. Were you all actually together on the same trail, you'd probably all just be having a laugh.
As Batman didn't say "It's not who I am underneath, but that I ride MTB that defines me"
The worrying thing is that Statler and Waldorf probably are the sterotypical image of half the EMTBers... but then Statler and Waldorf are great to watch and they can probably whip.
Whilst this is all amusing, maybe it's time to accept that what we write is often miss-interpreted (or sometimes we just write dumb sh1t) and that you all share the same passion. Were you all actually together on the same trail, you'd probably all just be having a laugh.
As Batman didn't say "It's not who I am underneath, but that I ride MTB that defines me"
The worrying thing is that Statler and Waldorf probably are the sterotypical image of half the EMTBers... but then Statler and Waldorf are great to watch and they can probably whip.
Bet your sh1t smells of roses (jk)
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