Suspension setup / swap as your riding improves

[dobbyhasfriends]

well Ive always hated the rear shock on the 2020 levo and as my riding improves, im finding it a lot worse..
the Lyrik up front is still ok for me, I think nothing that a big of setup adjustment wouldnt fix but.
the rear shock, what ive noticed is:
its fine on smooth trail centre type stuff, I can live with it but on my regular rocky trails its harsh and what I think im feeling is when the rear is already compressed, another hit will make it feel very harsh, almost like a hardtail but its not bottoming out.
im running 30% sag on the rear and 25% on the front.
the front feels a little wallowy on occasion but like I say, im hoping to get that from the setup.

so suspension guru's out there, can I make the rockshox deluxe select+ work for my 100kg gelatinous mass or should I be looking for something else (yea I know ive asked before but its a lot of cash).
having looked around, the rockshox super deluxe ultimate is £400 brand new whearas the Fox X2 is nearly double that.. would a 50 year old noob tel the difference between them, would the RS ultimate be THAT much better than the one I have?
sorry but ive never ever swapped out MTB suspension so ive no experience of the results..

 

[RustyIron]

the rear shock, what ive noticed is:
its fine on smooth trail centre type stuff, I can live with it but on my regular rocky trails its harsh and what I think im feeling is when the rear is already compressed, another hit will make it feel very harsh, almost like a hardtail but its not bottoming out.

What you describe is indicative of excessively slow rebound. When you're going fast over stutter bumps, the shock compresses, but it doesn't fully rebound before you hit the next bump. When you hit that next bump, the air spring is partially compressed at a higher pressure, and it feels harsh. The fix is easy: back out your rebound adjustment so the suspension is back to normal when you hit the next bump. When your rebound is too quick, and you come down harshly, there might be a tendency to buck you off. Don't worry about that at this time, just don't back the rebound out all the way.

Another thing to think about is the volume spacers in your air can. Volume spacers affect the progressivity of your air spring. They make the spring rate go up rapidly when the shock/fork approaches maximum travel. The factory might put in a lot of spacers for those Redbull Wannabe riders. That leaves a suspension that is way too harsh for those of us whose tires usually stay within a couple feet of the ground. I think your shock has a stack of small spacers. You can remove some or all of them. If you remove too many, you'll loose progressivity, and there will be a tendency to bottom out on modest hits. Attached is a picture of a spacer that I made last week for my Fox DPS. The original (yellow) is 0.6" tall. Mine is 0.3" tall. The result is a MUCH plusher shock. I've yet to decide whether to keep it, or go to 0.4". Playing with suspensions is always an experiment. Removing them isn't difficult. Youtube can be your friend.

Other ideas... I'd first try riding with your three-click "threshold" lever all the way open (CCW) and the other adjustment, which I think is a three-click low speed compression adjustment, fully CCW as well.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

What you describe is indicative of excessively slow rebound. When you're going fast over stutter bumps, the shock compresses, but it doesn't fully rebound before you hit the next bump. When you hit that next bump, the air spring is partially compressed at a higher pressure, and it feels harsh. The fix is easy: back out your rebound adjustment so the suspension is back to normal when you hit the next bump. When your rebound is too quick, and you come down harshly, there might be a tendency to buck you off. Don't worry about that at this time, just don't back the rebound out all the way.

Another thing to think about is the volume spacers in your air can. Volume spacers affect the progressivity of your air spring. They make the spring rate go up rapidly when the shock/fork approaches maximum travel. The factory might put in a lot of spacers for those Redbull Wannabe riders. That leaves a suspension that is way too harsh for those of us whose tires usually stay within a couple feet of the ground. I think your shock has a stack of small spacers. You can remove some or all of them. If you remove too many, you'll loose progressivity, and there will be a tendency to bottom out on modest hits. Attached is a picture of a spacer that I made last week for my Fox DPS. The original (yellow) is 0.6" tall. Mine is 0.3" tall. The result is a MUCH plusher shock. I've yet to decide whether to keep it, or go to 0.4". Playing with suspensions is always an experiment. Removing them isn't difficult. Youtube can be your friend.

Other ideas... I'd first try riding with your three-click "threshold" lever all the way open (CCW) and the other adjustment, which I think is a three-click low speed compression adjustment, fully CCW as well.

View attachment 67298

yea sounds right to me mate, I watched a video from mojo suspension after posting this and they said something similar about the rebound so ill try that first front and back then ill start messing with other settings after test riding.. cheers.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

well Mr @RustyIron, I checked my shocks and I can only assume that ive come to this conclusion before because my rebound was already one click off fastest setting..

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Dude, get yourself over here again and you can try out my 2022 Float X on your bike for the day. It is in between the DPS and the X2. Have a look at the online reviews for more info.

 

[Clubby]

I find that rear air shocks come with too many spacers for heavier riders. The increased air pressure we need for the correct sag causes excessive ramp up and stops full travel.
If it is the problem it’s an easy fix. Empty all the air out of the shock, open it up and see how many red spacers there are inside. At your weight remove them all. Refit shock and set correct sag then go for a ride. Could be you’ve removed too many and bottom too easily but then just put another one back in and try again.
Videos on SRAM website on how to do this. It’s pretty easy, you just need to make sure everything is meticulously clean before opening it up. Can be done without even removing shock from bike. You may need a strap wrench, as the air can can be difficult to unscrew, but mine was £8 on Amazon.

 

[steve_sordy]

Take a look at the DVO Topaz T3. I have had one for a couple of months now and they are amazing. Loads of adjustment. Don't just take my word for it, read the reviews.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Dude, get yourself over here again and you can try out my 2022 Float X on your bike for the day. It is in between the DPS and the X2. Have a look at the online reviews for more info.

ah mate, another shock I was looking at cos its like the X2 but without the faff !!!! I would love to do that and will take you up on it asap..

I find that rear air shocks come with too many spacers for heavier riders. The increased air pressure we need for the correct sag causes excessive ramp up and stops full travel.
If it is the problem it’s an easy fix. Empty all the air out of the shock, open it up and see how many red spacers there are inside. At your weight remove them all. Refit shock and set correct sag then go for a ride. Could be you’ve removed too many and bottom too easily but then just put another one back in and try again.
Videos on SRAM website on how to do this. It’s pretty easy, you just need to make sure everything is meticulously clean before opening it up. Can be done without even removing shock from bike. You may need a strap wrench, as the air can can be difficult to unscrew, but mine was £8 on Amazon.

hmm, good shout, ive never opened it and even though im not that heavy, I do have to use 275 psi.. if I use less I use full travel constantly.
fortunately I have a strap wrench so one less thing to worry about, cheers !!

 

[Mikerb]

I replaced the RS Deluxe on my Comp with the Fox DPS and it was a significant improvement. It also has the 3 position lever and I invariably use the soft setting for ordinary singletrack and the middle setting for gravity runs with more hits, drops and small ramps. Never found the need to use the hard setting. The biggest difference between the DPS and the RS was that it is nice and plush especially on the soft setting but ramps up pretty rapidly so that I do not bottom out. The RS had to be set somewhat firmer on the initial stroke so was not as plush....OK apart from that.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

well, I opened up my shock and there were the max amount of tokens in it.
removed the gnar dog and pumped it back up but now its losing air pressure ????
yea, I lubed the seal with sram better etc etc.. FML

 

[Zimmerframe]

well, I opened up my shock and there were the max amount of tokens in it.
removed the gnar dog and pumped it back up but now its losing air pressure ????
yea, I lubed the seal with sram better etc etc.. FML

View attachment 68505

Just put some tubeless tyre fluid in there

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Just put some tubeless tyre fluid in there

oh I see, this is tit for tat unhelpfulness isnt it !

 

[Zimmerframe]

oh I see, this is tit for tat unhelpfulness isnt it !

Maybe you twisted the o-ring ? or over tightened it ? Plumbers do that all the time

 

[Mikerb]

If it was holding pressure before you removed the tokens it is unlikely to be losing air now. More likely you have not equalised it by cycling the shock every 10 psi added. The way you described your problem with the shock originally sounds like it is packing...ie too much rebound not allowing the shock to return before the next hit.
Overall, I think it difficult to get a shock to deal effectively with varying conditions............manicured bike park v natural/forest trail........unless you have greater user tuning options and that is what you get with the more expensive shocks. A shock with more limited control of lsc and hsc as well as rebound is bound to be a compromise, more especially if you are towards the upper limit of the rider weight the shock has to support.
That said as I pointed out previously I found the Fox DPS far more capable than the RS ( Deluxe in my case) but I have the X2 on my Whyte E 180 and that is a league apart from either in terms of performance and tuneability for different terrain.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

If it was holding pressure before you removed the tokens it is unlikely to be losing air now. More likely you have not equalised it by cycling the shock every 10 psi added. The way you described your problem with the shock originally sounds like it is packing...ie too much rebound not allowing the shock to return before the next hit.
Overall, I think it difficult to get a shock to deal effectively with varying conditions............manicured bike park v natural/forest trail........unless you have greater user tuning options and that is what you get with the more expensive shocks. A shock with more limited control of lsc and hsc as well as rebound is bound to be a compromise, more especially if you are towards the upper limit of the rider weight the shock has to support.
That said as I pointed out previously I found the Fox DPS far more capable than the RS ( Deluxe in my case) but I have the X2 on my Whyte E 180 and that is a league apart from either in terms of performance and tuneability for different terrain.

I equalised every 50psi.. and it seems to have settled now, ill check it tomorrow.
as much as I would love a high end shock, assuming this doesnt keep leaking, I will persist with trying to get a half decent setup on it.
I've had to pump it to 270psi now to get the sag right, it was 240 before.

 

[apac]

I equalised every 50psi.. and it seems to have settled now, ill check it tomorrow.
as much as I would love a high end shock, assuming this doesnt keep leaking, I will persist with trying to get a half decent setup on it.
I've had to pump it to 270psi now to get the sag right, it was 240 before.

if you take out the volume spacers you will need more air to reach sag.
I have fox DPS elite rear shock 210x52.5 which I have just taken off my levo SL. You would be welcome to try it. We could meet up in Cwmcarn in the near future and I could install itfor you and help set it up. At least then you could see if there is any noticeable difference to your current shock. I'm busy this week, but next week I'd be around.
I feel your frustration. I'm currently fiddling with my new fox that has been added to my SL.
Message me if you want to try it out. It's not sale btw, so I'm not trying to push it onto you. It's really good being able to try back to back equipment. I love trying out different suspension parts.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

if you take out the volume spacers you will need more air to reach sag.
I have fox DPS elite rear shock 210x52.5 which I have just taken off my levo SL. You would be welcome to try it. We could meet up in Cwmcarn in the near future and I could install itfor you and help set it up. At least then you could see if there is any noticeable difference to your current shock. I'm busy this week, but next week I'd be around.
I feel your frustration. I'm currently fiddling with my new fox that has been added to my SL.
Message me if you want to try it out. It's not sale btw, so I'm not trying to push it onto you. It's really good being able to try back to back equipment. I love trying out different suspension parts.

thats very kind @apac thanks! I would love to know what a decent shock feels like, Ive never had a bike with anything other than budget suspension on.
I read your thread with the fox X2 on your SL, I had nothing to say on it but found it interesting because thats what I would have to go through if I bought an X2 or similar.
EDIT: yea really looking forward to riding but work is intense atm, went through the weekend unable to move off the couch again which is stupid but thats how it is at the moment.

 

[apac]

thats very kind @apac thanks! I would love to know what a decent shock feels like, Ive never had a bike with anything other than budget suspension on.
I read your thread with the fox X2 on your SL, I had nothing to say on it but found it interesting because thats what I would have to go through if I bought an X2 or similar.
EDIT: yea really looking forward to riding but work is intense atm, went through the weekend unable to move off the couch again which is stupid but thats how it is at the moment.

No problem. The offer is there is you want to take it.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

well by way of an update I went to Cwm Rhaeadr today with my two red tokens and 270psi
the bike definitely felt different and the main thing I can take away from today was that I didn't "notice" the rear end like I usually would. its usually so harsh but today I just didn't notice apart from the fact that my fork now feels a little too soft.. possibly a coincidence but all in all, a big improvement.. thanks to @RustyIron because I just assumed that the shock wouldn't have been rammed with tokens..

 

[Forever Wild]

well Ive always hated the rear shock on the 2020 levo and as my riding improves, im finding it a lot worse..
the Lyrik up front is still ok for me, I think nothing that a big of setup adjustment wouldnt fix but.
the rear shock, what ive noticed is:
its fine on smooth trail centre type stuff, I can live with it but on my regular rocky trails its harsh and what I think im feeling is when the rear is already compressed, another hit will make it feel very harsh, almost like a hardtail but its not bottoming out.
im running 30% sag on the rear and 25% on the front.
the front feels a little wallowy on occasion but like I say, im hoping to get that from the setup.

so suspension guru's out there, can I make the rockshox deluxe select+ work for my 100kg gelatinous mass or should I be looking for something else (yea I know ive asked before but its a lot of cash).
having looked around, the rockshox super deluxe ultimate is £400 brand new whearas the Fox X2 is nearly double that.. would a 50 year old noob tel the difference between them, would the RS ultimate be THAT much better than the one I have?
sorry but ive never ever swapped out MTB suspension so ive no experience of the results..

Once you’ve dialed in your rebound and still feel you need to reduce harshness… try installing cushcores. If you still need to reduce harshness… add a MegNeg can to your RS Deluxe. The large neg volume helps with suppleness.

 

[RustyIron]

usually so harsh but today I just didn't notice apart from the fact that my fork now feels a little too soft.. possibly a coincidence but all in all, a big improvement.

That's great. You might want to ride it a while before deciding whether it's too soft, or whether it feels that way because you were used to it being too harsh.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Sir. You have two options. One really.

Get a bike with longer travel.

your second option is get an EXT shock. They run crazy light springs so it’s super plush and with the hydraulic bottom out you’d never know you bottomed out. It’s not ideal for jumping tho

big part of me wishes I had bought the Kenevo!

Once you’ve dialed in your rebound and still feel you need to reduce harshness… try installing cushcores. If you still need to reduce harshness… add a MegNeg can to your RS Deluxe. The large neg volume helps with suppleness.

megneg is in my sights but as @RustyIron has said, I will ride it for a while and adjust..

 

[Zimmerframe]

He's a few days older so maybe a few kg's heavier too ....

 

[Gary]

If you're struggling to set up a fairly simple air shock I really wouldn't recommend you to go out and spent a grand on an EXT coil shock.
I could go into great detail as to why. But just don't.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

If you're struggling to set up a fairly simple air shock I really wouldn't recommend you to go out and spent a grand on an EXT coil shock.
I could go into great detail as to why. But just don't.

im not going to regardless of whether I can afford it or not, I simply wont get the value out of it as a rider.
ive only just stared setting up the shock to be fair. I had no idea all those tokens were in there and was too lazy to open it and find out, judging by today its already improved and I think it will be fine for me..
something odd I noticed was that the bike seemed more lively, I was getting more of out pumping with less tokens, it seems the wrong way round in some respects although I did put more pressure in it of course.

 

[Forever Wild]

im not going to regardless of whether I can afford it or not, I simply wont get the value out of it as a rider.
ive only just stared setting up the shock to be fair. I had no idea all those tokens were in there and was too lazy to open it and find out, judging by today its already improved and I think it will be fine for me..
something odd I noticed was that the bike seemed more lively, I was getting more of out pumping with less tokens, it seems the wrong way round in some respects although I did put more pressure in it of course.

Less tokens means larger air chamber which means more air volume which equals more compressibility.

If you get the MegNeg upgrade later you can adjust both the positive and negative air volume.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Less tokens means larger air chamber which means more air volume which equals more compressibility.

If you get the MegNeg upgrade later you can adjust both the positive and negative air volume.

What bike did you put your magnet on? I read that some bikes make more of it than others due to suspension design

 

[Forever Wild]

What bike did you put your magnet on? I read that some bikes make more of it than others due to suspension design

Trek Powerfly LT 9.7

 

[EME]

well Ive always hated the rear shock on the 2020 levo and as my riding improves, im finding it a lot worse..
the Lyrik up front is still ok for me, I think nothing that a big of setup adjustment wouldnt fix but.
the rear shock, what ive noticed is:
its fine on smooth trail centre type stuff, I can live with it but on my regular rocky trails its harsh and what I think im feeling is when the rear is already compressed, another hit will make it feel very harsh, almost like a hardtail but its not bottoming out.
im running 30% sag on the rear and 25% on the front.
the front feels a little wallowy on occasion but like I say, im hoping to get that from the setup.

Same shock bike and year ... I am whatever the opposite of a guru is as I have zero experience and even less knowledge. I felt the same about the rear shock. I added a Meg Neg (cos I could) and the ride experience was transformed . No more waiting for the next crash ... trouble is, I have no idea of course what the real improvement came from. Gary posted a great video about setting up a rear shock on a thread somewhere ( involves riding off a pavement), setting up with the Meg Neg was the first time I did that as well so may have been that simple?

 

[Gary]

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