Specialized Kenevo vs eCrafty R+

[EVEll]

Hi all, I’m new to this forum though I’ve been reading a lot of threads. I’m currently moving to a full suspension ebike from my 26” Yt. I consider myself as a beginner/intermediate rider.

Where I ride, I’ll be dealing with a fair share of steep rocky technical climbs and equally steep dh rides so need a bike that can feel confident to push further.

On top of my list is the specialized kenevo expert but It’s price tag exceeds my budget quite a bit. My other option is to go for a 2018 mondraker crafty R+ which a local dealer gave me a really good deal on.

Would you recommend the mondraker or shall I fork out the extra cash and go for the kenevo? Read a lot of good things about the Brose 1.3 motor while saw mixed reviews on the Bosch CX motor. The mondraker also seems to have a longer wheel base which will probably feel a bit different than what I’m used. Unfortunately test runs are not an option!

What are your views on the ecrafty - should I go for it, or wait a bit and get the kenevo?

Thanks! Appreciate your help

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Good luck. If it is a matter of getting out riding, any bike is good so not worth waiting, perhaps?

In terms of Lenovo vs mondraker, are these the only options? The crafty is a very long bike, so it should be stable down hill which is what you are looking for, but probably not particularly playful.

I know it’s annoying, , but without trying the bike sit is really hard to decide if a certain bike works for you.


The crafty at list price it is a bit pricey for its spec, although it is not a bad spec. However, if the deal is good enough...

Alternatively you could look for a used Kenovo, there are some on here in the for sale section.

Finally, you really should try a few bikes, How about the many other choices out there with great specs and price? Vitus sommerset, canyon spectral, thok, cube etc?

Good luck.

 

[R120]

Personally I would get the Vitus over either of the bikes you mention.

Neither the Specilized or the Mondraker are bad bikes, but the Kenevo is getting long in the tooth, and will likely be a new model with the same updates the 19 Levo has had, in the not to distant future, and the Mondraker is running the "oldest" motor out there, which is still good, but also anew motor form Bosch due fairly soon.

This means both are heavy bikes, especially compared to rivals.

In your position, and if looking for the riding you are doing, I would look at the Vitus, and also the Ghost Hybride Slammr X:


On test: Ghost HybRide SL AMR X: Coil-Shock, Carbon & DH-Geometry – new E-Trailbike-Benchmark? – eMTB-News.de

 

[EVEll]

Good luck. If it is a matter of getting out riding, any bike is good so not worth waiting, perhaps?

In terms of Lenovo vs mondraker, are these the only options? The crafty is a very long bike, so it should be stable down hill which is what you are looking for, but probably not particularly playful.

I know it’s annoying, , but without trying the bike sit is really hard to decide if a certain bike works for you.


The crafty at list price it is a bit pricey for its spec, although it is not a bad spec. However, if the deal is good enough...

Alternatively you could look for a used Kenovo, there are some on here in the for sale section.

Finally, you really should try a few bikes, How about the many other choices out there with great specs and price? Vitus sommerset, canyon spectral, thok, cube etc?

Good luck.

It's True but unfortunately locally most dealers won't let you try out a bike before you buy. The mondraker is about 1,000 euros cheaper than the Kenevo expert. Specs and reviews on the Specialized seem better (and I've actually tried this one out for a bit and loved it), but the mondraker seems like a good ride too, fit for my budget and looks good. Was wondering if anyone here owns an e-crafty R+ and could share their views on this bike.

 

[EVEll]

Personally I would get the Vitus over either of the bikes you mention.

Neither the Specilized or the Mondraker are bad bikes, but the Kenevo is getting long in the tooth, and will likely be a new model with the same updates the 19 Levo has had, in the not to distant future, and the Mondraker is running the "oldest" motor out there, which is still good, but also anew motor form Bosch due fairly soon.

This means both are heavy bikes, especially compared to rivals.

In your position, and if looking for the riding you are doing, I would look at the Vitus, and also the Ghost Hybride Slammr X:


On test: Ghost HybRide SL AMR X: Coil-Shock, Carbon & DH-Geometry – new E-Trailbike-Benchmark? – eMTB-News.de

View attachment 10697

Thanks for the insight - yes the fact that the Bosch motor is soon due for replacement is a concern! In such an evolving area, it's always best to purchase the latest technology.

I've looked at these other brands and although reviews are great, I prefer much more integrated batteries. Maybe I should look at the new 2019 Levo too, but this will probably be quite over budget.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

It's True but unfortunately locally most dealers won't let you try out a bike before you buy. The mondraker is about 1,000 euros cheaper than the Kenevo expert. Specs and reviews on the Specialized seem better (and I've actually tried this one out for a bit and loved it), but the mondraker seems like a good ride too, fit for my budget and looks good. Was wondering if anyone here owns an e-crafty R+ and could share their views on this bike.

If you tried the Lenovo and liked it, go for it. Don’t spend your money on the unknown, especially since a Kenevo most likely will bring you top dollar second hand because of the brand value. See it as an investment. (Only if you can manage economically of course, do not want to encourage homeless people with top spec bikes... it is so hard to explain to the family...)

 

[Tim29]

The virus i

Personally I would get the Vitus over either of the bikes you mention.

Neither the Specilized or the Mondraker are bad bikes, but the Kenevo is getting long in the tooth, and will likely be a new model with the same updates the 19 Levo has had, in the not to distant future, and the Mondraker is running the "oldest" motor out there, which is still good, but also anew motor form Bosch due fairly soon.

This means both are heavy bikes, especially compared to rivals.

In your position, and if looking for the riding you are doing, I would look at the Vitus, and also the Ghost Hybride Slammr X:


On test: Ghost HybRide SL AMR X: Coil-Shock, Carbon & DH-Geometry – new E-Trailbike-Benchmark? – eMTB-News.de

View attachment 10697

the virus is similar to the Fantic, rear suspension and geometry
I really like that rear suspension.

 

[MattyB]

The vitus is similar to the Fantic, rear suspension and geometry
I really like that rear suspension.

The Vitus is a 4-bar Horst link system, but I am pretty sure the Fantic is a faux-bar single pivot from the pictures; the Vitus has the tell tale pivot on the chainstay, but with the Fantic it is on the seatstay.

The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems

 

[Tim29]

The Vitus is a 4-bar Horst link system, but I am pretty sure the Fantic is a faux-bar single pivot from the pictures; the Vitus has the tell tale pivot on the chainstay, but with the Fantic it is on the seatstay.

View attachment 10734
View attachment 10736

The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems

Both have the lower shock pivot on the lower chain stay, not fixed to frame. At least that’s the way it looks to me in pics. I have never seen a virus here in states. Good looking bike and i like how the battery is mounted on inside of the triangle

 

[MattyB]

Both have the lower shock pivot on the lower chain stay, not fixed to frame. At least that’s the way it looks to me in pics. I have never seen a virus here in states. Good looking bike and i like how the battery is mounted on inside of the triangle

Ok, gotcha. Even so I would still say the difference between a single pivot (Fantic) and a 4-bar linkage (Vitus, not Virus ) is pretty significant however the shock is mounted. They are likely to give quite different characteristics, especially when you are working hard out of the saddle.

 

[Tim29]

Lmao. My phone auto corrects vitus to virus
But i found close up and your right there very different. The Vitus has fixed lower shock pivot.
The Fantic the lower shock mount is on swing arm so it has progressive ratio.
But they both are 4 bar duel pivot. The Fantic pivots on upper chain stays and the Vitus is on lower rear.
But at first look i thought the Vitus had the lower shock mount on chain stays when second look it’s a fixed mount on the bottom bracket.
I am partial to live mounted shock. Meaning both end of the shock move not a fixed shock mount or dead ended mount.
But i def would love to give that bike a run see how it feels.

 

[R120]

Lmao. My phone auto corrects vitus to virus
But i found close up and your right there very different. The Vitus has fixed lower shock pivot.
The Fantic the lower shock mount is on swing arm so it has progressive ratio.
But they both are 4 bar duel pivot. The Fantic pivots on upper chain stays and the Vitus is on lower rear.
But at first look i thought the Vitus had the lower shock mount on chain stays when second look it’s a fixed mount on the bottom bracket.
I am partial to live mounted shock. Meaning both end of the shock move not a fixed shock mount or dead ended mount.
But i def would love to give that bike a run see how it feels.

"The E-Sommet uses a Horst link suspension layout, but with the lower shock mount attached to the chainstay. The means the shock is pushed upwards from the chainstay, and downwards by the upper rocker link simultaneously"

E-Sommet suspension Video - Pinkbike

 

[Silverfox101010]

I ride the downs etc too I choose the kenevo because for me having motor noise was a big no no also not a fan of screens etc on my bars. ps don't be afraid to make offers on the bike even if it's online mine Rrp at £5500 I paid £4150 and got new tyres thrown in too!

 

[Tim29]

"The E-Sommet uses a Horst link suspension layout, but with the lower shock mount attached to the chainstay. The means the shock is pushed upwards from the chainstay, and downwards by the upper rocker link simultaneously"

E-Sommet suspension Video - Pinkbike

R120, thanks for that video, so both the Fantic. And Vitus have very similar rear suspension. They both have Horst link. So there is a difference in rear chain stay pivots. One is upper the other is lower.

 

[Gary]

They both have Horst link

No,
The Fantic doesn't have a horst link. It's a single pivot swing arm with a 4 bar linkage. That's what Matty has been telling you.
Matty saying the difference will be when working hard pedalling stood up isn't the only difference. Activeness and behaviour under braking will be different between the two frame designs as well.

placement of the horst link on a bike can be calculated to behave a certain way under pedalling forces and braking forces that a single pivot cannot. That pivot position can be utilised to control anti-squat and anti-rise. (obviously it's not all down to one pivot, the bike's instant centre needs to be used and gearing)
You can also still design a very progressive leverage curve with a fixed shock position.
a floating shock mount alone doesn't necessarily make all that much difference to it's characteristics. it's mounting position does and the arc of each link does.

Simply looking at two bike frames and seeing similarities doesn't really tell you a lot unless you know what you're looking at/for. And even then without knowing exact dimensions and pivot placement positions you're guessing.

download Linkage software and have a play with it if you want to understand how various pivot positions/liinkages affect LR, AS, AR, pedal kickback etc.
Here:
Linkage Bike Simulation Software - Home

 

[Tim29]

Same

No,
The Fantic doesn't have a horst link. It's a single pivot swing arm with a 4 bar linkage. That's what Matty has been telling you.
Matty saying the difference will be when working hard pedalling stood up isn't the only difference. Activeness and behaviour under braking will be different between the two frame designs as well.

placement of the horst link on a bike can be calculated to behave a certain way under pedalling forces and braking forces that a single pivot cannot. That pivot position can be utilised to control anti-squat and anti-rise. (obviously it's not all down to one pivot, the bike's instant centre needs to be used and gearing)
You can also still design a very progressive leverage curve with a fixed shock position.
a floating shock mount alone doesn't necessarily make all that much difference to it's characteristics. it's mounting position does and the arc of each link does.

Simply looking at two bike frames and seeing similarities doesn't really tell you a lot unless you know what you're looking at/for. And even then without knowing exact dimensions and pivot placement positions you're guessing.

download Linkage software and have a play with it if you want to understand how various pivot positions/liinkages affect LR, AS, AR, pedal kickback etc.
Here:
Linkage Bike Simulation Software - Home

same concept.
They both have lower shock pivot on rear triangle, chain stay, swing arm what ever you wish to call it.

 

[MattyB]

same concept.
They both have lower shock pivot on rear triangle, chain stay, swing arm what ever you wish to call it.
View attachment 10773

It may seem like pedantry, but the move of the rear pivot from chainstay (Vitus) to seatstay (Fantic) is very significant to the way the suspension works, much more so than the fact the base of the shock links to the chainstays in both bikes. Go back and read the link I posted previously - it is a very useful reference for explaining the differences between the different suspension systems.

The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems

Key extracts:

" 2. Linkage-driven single pivot
A linkage-driven single pivot design still uses an uninterrupted swingarm, connecting the rear axle directly to the mainframe. However, it incorporates some form of linkage to drive the shock. This allows the designers to manipulate the leverage curve and so control the frame’s progressivity (how much the suspension firms up towards the end of the stroke).

On a Scott Gambler, or any recent Evil, for example, the linkage is driven from the front of the swingarm.

Kona, Cannondale and Commencal — among others — typically use a visually different design, which sees the shock driven from a pivot (or flex-stay) located above the rear axle.

This looks similar to a four-bar (Horst-link) design, so is sometimes referred to as “faux-bar”; but the rear axle is still connected to the main pivot via a simple swingarm, so this is just another form of linkage-driven single pivot."

...and...

"3. Horst-link (four-bar)
Horst-link (aka four-bar) suspension — as used by Specialized, Norco, and newer Transitions (as well as many others) — is marked out by a rear pivot located below the rear axle on the chainstay (rather than the seatstay as with the “faux-bar”).

This means the rear axle is not directly connected to the mainframe, and so moves in a path which is defined by its Instant Centre and Centre of curvature, which may move as the suspension cycles through its travel. Depending on the position of the Instant Centre, the effect of braking forces on the suspension (known as anti-rise) can be reduced relative to a single pivot design.

As I’ll explain later, this can afford designers more control over the levels of anti-squat throughout the suspension’s travel, as well as reducing the effect of braking forces (known as anti-rise) on the suspension, with the aim of improving sensitivity."

 

[dirt huffer]

Just eat ham and cheese sandwiches for the next six months

 

[Gary]

same concept.
They both have lower shock pivot on rear triangle, chain stay, swing arm what ever you wish to call it.