Should I trade my Kenevo for a Rise?

[whiterabbit]

Having periodic grass is greener syndrome. Got a Kenevo and put another couple grand into it to make it mine and it is awesome 95% of the time. The only thing that gets me, and maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, is jumping. I'm a poor jumper and I want to get better at it. And I'm worried the Kenevo is the wrong platform for it. In order to clear the 6-10 ft gap jumps, I can't go trail speed, I have to go turbo mode and send it like I MEAN it. Otherwise, I come up short.

For my normal riding the 20 mph limit is NBD. But if I want to hit 12 ft gap jumps the only way I see it happening is to hit them at 25 mph. Which is a sphincter tightening run up to the lip, when the guy on a 30 lb bike behind me is hitting it much slower and clearing it. And I don't want to delimit anyways... And now I am teating the bike like a motor bike which I really don;t want to do because it's just proving to the ebike haters that "it's a motorbike" when it's really not (for all the other riding)

I'm wondering if the Rise would be a better bike for me for this venture without sacrificing fun trail-ness I get via Kenevo. It's a decision that will not be available to me in a year or two as bike availability gets better the resale on a Kenevo will be poor I am sure (if anyone can go to any shop and find one).

OR maybe it's just grass is greener syndrome, it's all my poor technique and I should keep the tank I otherwise really enjoy and just accept that the kenevo e-bike ride difference compared to a normal MTB is just even more stark compared to a Levo or Levo SL due to weight and length.

Dunno. what say you Rise owners? I know, way different bikes, but still there has to be some compare and contrast for the same trails.

 

[Mikerb]

You could try making your suspension firmer especially the shock.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It sounds like you probably have the perfect bike.

One big problem people make with long travel bikes is setting it up so you lose "support".

So as Mike says. Though for me I'd start with the fork. Up the front 20psi and/or add one or two tokens for a ride just to try it.

You might know all this crap so sorry if we're telling you how to suck eggs, but you have to start somewhere.

Unless you're casing, I'd say you're :

A: too soft on the front and setup for luxury trail riding (which also has it's benefits).

B: maybe naturally not hinging enough/wrong body position.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Remember Gravity works the same if your bike is 10kg or 100kg !

 

[Adam Thomas]

I own a 2019 Kenevo expert and it is a heavy bike. I enjoy hitting big gaps and have no problems clearing 10 to 15 foot gaps.Your kenevo is built with jumping in mind. I would be looking at your technique . You can generate serious amounts of lift through preloading the suspension on the run in. You can't rely solely on entry speed . There is literally hundreds of good vids on YouTube that give awesome tips . Maybe try a jumping clinic. In short YES Kenevo can and do jump well. I wish you the best of luck and enjoy the process. Keep it shiny side up

 

[jka]

I agree with other comments, keep the bike and work on your technique AFTER getting your suspension dialed in properly. Gravity does indeed work the same on a 10Kg bike compared to a 100Kg bike, but the lift you get from suspension preload and release is different based on the weight of the bike and rider. Rebound damping is key to a good suspension set up and probably the one adjustment that is overlooked way too often. Coming from many decades of motocross and desert racing, I can certainly attest to the value of having the suspension totally dialed in for proper bike handling including jumping. Technique is the biggest factor by far though. Dial the suspension and then work on your technique.

 

[whiterabbit]

Adam, thank you! I've come to the conclusion I need to keep the Kenevo.

I supose we could talk for days about suspension setup.

I'm 150 lb / 68 kg and 6'3" / 190.5 cm which makes me a thin stick that blows away in the wind. Ever heard of "heavy door syndrome?" (lol). For the rear shock I replaced the 550 lb spring for the S4. Got a 450 lb spring, and a 400-488-ish progressive spring. For the front, I converted my Z1 to Vorsprung Smashpot. I have a 35 and 40 lb spring.

I started with 35 lb front and 400-progressive in the back. BOY was it plush. If I had zero desire to jump, we wouldn't be talking right now. I can roll over ANYTHING with that setup. The bike rides flat and dead. Not good to get off jump lips! Now I run 450 linear in the back, and 40 front, it "seems" much much better. With these springs, adjusting the dampers makes big differences in ride quality, so I guess I've got the springs "right".

So, that leaves the damper which I have less experience setting up right, and the major adjustment you guys are suggesting I target. I have the compression dampers wide open because I'm not sure I see any value in damping the compression for my riding. The rebound is where the devil-details lay of course. I set mine for "riding", where I end up with minimal pogoing when I ride over the rocks and roots of my trails. Making sure the bike compresses "evenly" (more or less) when stomping on the pedals on the flat.

What I DON'T know, is whether that is right for jumping too, to give me the right pop off lips? 10-15 foot gaps is the upper limit of my ambition (15 foot gaps would be amazing). I'm stuck in 6-foot land (and that one 9-er that is just the right shape and height and groomed-ness to make sometimes). If I can extend my 80-90% riding to 12-13 footers I would be super-duper happy.

Anyways, I don't if it is common practice to "detune" the damper a click or two or three to deoptimize slightly for trail but get more pop off jump lips, or do you set it for trail and God bless it for jumps, it's right? Also don't know if the strategy changes for a 58 lb e-bike vs a 30 lb trail bike, I set them both up the same.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your strategies for setting up spring rate, compression, and especially rebound damping. Specifically for jumps to give max pop without risk of over-doing it, and whether that setup is consistent with setting up for trail

 

[Adam Thomas]

Suspension is not a dark art in terms of set up !! I suggest getting a good base line first. Set your sags first I run mine at 25% others like 30% Thats the ball park. . Most suspension manufacturers have base line charts for set up which include riders weight . Start there and fine tune . If your bike rides dead as you say id suggest I will also jump like its dead. You need pop even when trail riding . Bunny hoping over obstacles rather than just plowing over them . I remember watching a basic set up on YouTube The link I have shown is pretty close to the mark . For me anyway . I see you run coil from and back so rather than adding or subtracting air you just add or minus more spring preload. Try this see how you go. Then work on your technique . I see young kids up my local trails who have no idea on setup just totally sending it over 20ft gap jumps with excellent technique . Set up will only get you so far where as technique will get you where you want to be. Try not to get too hung up on numbers and how many clicks . Just get out there practice like hell and enjoy the ride . I strongly recommend doing a jumping school . Good luck enjoy the process and stay safe.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Lets see some pics guys! Never seems to be any seriously good MTBing pics on here esp jumping. I can't talk as I'm nursing a suspected broken thumb after overjumping a 2 ft tabletop. Momentum is a bugger sometime.

 

[whiterabbit]

yeah, I'm happy with spring rate at this point. 35/400 was dead, 40/450 is much better.

Doug, how about seriously bad ones?






And really really bad?

 

[Mikerb]

From a bike set up point of view front and rear suspension ideally sorted is purpose designed to compress and then rebound in a controlled way leaving the sprung weight ( you and the bike) largely unshaken! That being the case if indeed you do want the sprung weight to be propelled skyward by a ramp you need to negate that capability............either by changing the suspension characteristics or through jumping technique....probably both.
I am no jumping expert and prefer bombing rowdy descents so my suspension set up is optimised for that and it means any natural ( small) ramps I do encounter need a fair bit of rider input to get air.

I have ridden a bike park jump trail ( not really my thing!) and with that set up found things very difficult until I reset my suspension. I have Fox DPS shock with the 3 position compression lever.....I changed that to hard ( 3) ....up front I have Lyric Ultimate......I increased both high and low speed compression ( more on LSC) and also increased rebound. I then found that I could easily get air without much in the way of rider input. That had me landing on the table tops. With some rider input I could clear the table top .....mostly! I would not risk my (lack of) technique on gap jumps bigger than a few feet though!!

The consequences outweigh the benefits for me especially as virtually every ramp is different. A short ramp is different to long ramp. A ramp that is shorter than the bikes wheelbase is sketchier than one twice the length of the wheelbase. A flat ramp is different to a concave ramp. A flat ramp send the bike less high but further forward, a concave ramp does the opposite. It takes a lot of experience to be able to recognise the different ramps and know how fast to go.................which is why you see so many people coming to grief!! Bike parks can lead to a false sense of security given the careful design put into jump lines................at least when they are new or well maintained! On natural trails, even ones you know well, a ramp can be different every time you ride it, so discretion is often the better part of valour!

 

[#lazy]

IMO it’s more about 50% technique 30% susp 20% bike .
I doesn’t matter what susp setup on whatever bike if you’re technique is wrong . You can stiffen fork and shock then speed up the rebound to give more lift or pop but that will just fool yourself into thinking you are getting better , then it’ll be out for the rest of the ride . When you’re riding , the bike and you should act like one object working in the same way !
So get susp set up for you properly ( not to give you the most softest ride ) and learn some techniques and you’ll be surprised how good the kenevo and you can be !

 

[R120]

Aside from focusing on techniques, I would be tempted to try an air shock out back. I know a few local guys who have swapped over to air shocks on the back in order to make the Kenevo more poppy/responsive