Shimano E8000 derestricting options

[Gary]

There are loads of options to derestrict the E8000 motor and I'm unsure of what is best to use. I'd really only like the assist cut off limit raised slightly (Somewhere around 22mph would probably be fine)

in order of price I've seen .

V-max - chip that needs the E8000 wiring cutting and splicing - £45 German Ebay seller (not going this route)

Speed clip (looks like a badassbox clone) - £85 German Ebay seller

Badassbikes box - battery powered chainstay sensor mounted/removable - £130ish

speedbox - internally fitted chip with wired sensor to replace the E8000 chainstay sensor - £130ish

Pear tune - internally fitted chip no external sensor - £140ish

Software tuning via PCE-1 interface with Emax software - £300ish

I was keen to go the software tuning route after talking to @Tori about her partners E8000 de-limiting but didn't realise I'd have to downgrade the E8000 to a lower OS. (I noticed a dramatic change in performance when I updated my motor via the shimano STEPS app). Also it's incredibly pricy.

I don't really want to be cutting cables/wiring and am not keen on removing the shimano sensor or running another sensor to the chainstay.

So that leaves the Badassbox (and clone) or the peartune.
As I understand it these both simply trick the E8000 into thinking the wheel is turning at half the speed it really is by halving the signals from the wheel sensor.
now... Does this affect performance at low speed at all? or introduce lag when getting back on the pedals, or possibly even cut off the assist at properly low speeds/cadences?

any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Gary]

Nevermind. Ordered the fruity one. will find out for myself soon enough.

 

[Bob lakin]

Also interested in this. Emax looks best but I don't think they are selling it at the moment due to the firmware issues. When I was looking I did find a shop on eBay that hires out the PCE1 di2 programmer for £15 for a week.

Peartune does look best but I'm not keen on all the values being doubled.

Cheapest option would be to get a dealer with Shimano software to change the wheel diameter but I suspect this is near impossible as if Shimano found out they would be on the very naughty boy list

If anyone is looking for a BADASS chip for the Shimano with SDI I have one for sale (unused).

 

[spr0cket]

Bob, what do you mean by "with SDI"?

 

[Bob lakin]

Bob, what do you mean by "with SDI"?

Ment
SD2 ,a bit of outsimers kicked in !

 

[spr0cket]

Ment
SD2 ,a bit of outsimers kicked in !

Would that be Di2 to those of us with battery powered shifting? If so, I might be interested...

 

[davosaurusrex]

Looking at the Speedclip on ebay it looks to be a version of the previous generation Badassbikes box so older, bigger case, CR7 battery, no slot for cable tie etc. I'd bet they are exactly the same as the previous gen model, fair chance they bought up the surplus stock. Whether that makes the newer one worth nearly 70E more is debatable

 

[Bob lakin]

Would that be Di2 to those of us with battery powered shifting? If so, I might be interested...

Yes it is

 

[thebarber]

Pear tune 's good, I'm on my second as I don't think the connector to the motors very good and after washing my bike ready for glentress it failed again.
Cleaned connectors and petroleum jelly and so far so good ...

 

[Gary]

Yeah. it turned up yesterday. fitted and rode it last night and today.
Turns out i can't beat my fastest roadbike times (I was a lot fitter then) on the short (2min ish) local climbs on a deristricted Emtb. infact. i can't beat any of my fastest 20sec climb/sprint times either. some of which I did on my BMX. Ach well... that's not why I got it anyway.
Haven't ridden anything interesting yet and probably won't until sometime next week.
I'm actually making a point of riding my other bikes again as I've lost loads of fitness since getting the Ebike

 

[davosaurusrex]

Leaving aside the fact that we're not on each other's Christmas card lists (I'm ok with it, assuming you are, no doubt you'll tell me if not), I'm interested to know if you have had the same issue in lower gears Kernow had before he put a 36t ring on?

Also did you order the light activated version?

 

[Gary]

I don't do christmas cards at all. But don't have a problem with you Dave (or any stranger on the internet for that matter). I do find the irony of you asking me for my honest opinion now after the shitstorm the three of you caused when you couldn't cope with my honest opinions on other stuff quite funny. But we'll just leave it at that, eh? They're just bikes. We clearly don't all ride them the same. And that's absolutely fine.

What was the issue he had? That it cut out in his lowest sprocket? I remember reading something about the problem but it didn't seem to make a whole load of sense to me. ie.
I've no idea why that would happen considering the motor seems to assists based on the torque, cadence and speeds it senses.
[EDIT] I've just been out to test it. and try to understand the problem. And Yes. the assist cuts out intermittently in 34/42. but only in boost. I guess it's due to the peartune halving the speed signal recieved effectively sending a far lower gearing combination than is actually possible normally and outwith the range the management system is designed to work with. I don't climb slowly enough to need my 42T sprocket on this bike so can't see it being much of a problem for me in use.

I was out on it this morning for an hour. so just a short but proper ride, albeit just a flattish (800ft ascent) local 15 mile XC loop of mainly hardpack/dusty singletrack with a few long technical root gardens.
Impressions/thoughts
It's so much nicer not hitting that 14.5-15mph zone and the motor cutting in and out and once you reach 20mph even in boost it starts to give you an actual workout rather than the easy ride you get at 14mph (wind resistance obvs playing a part at the higher speeds too). I run a tomtom bar mounted GPS a more accurate speed is displayed there for me to see as well as the halved shimano displayed speed.
I rode mostly in boost, with a little trail and very little eco and could reach 31mph on the flat in 34/11 without spinning out and the motor was still giving assistance. I'd actually thought it'd stop at around 29-30mph. (maybe the GPS wasn't quite as accurate though). on a less windy day I'll try to get it up to 35mph and see what happens although the cadence required will probably put it in the 130-140 range where I found the motor stoped assisting while spinning up climbs at 10-15mph). So far I've not noticed any lag (which I was worried about) but I've only got 25 miles on the thing and not ridden anywere challenging on it. Overall I'm happy with the purchase.

I just got my E-sommet back and because it has a new motor it required a firmware update. it's actually a slightly newer version than the one I was running on the old motor and I'm not sure what difference (if any) it has made. Kinda hard to tell since I've modded it at the same time.

I have the light activated version too, you simply need to hook up the shimano app and activate the light function in the menu. I bought direct from Ebiketuning.com in Germany. But it's branded as being czech made.

 

[Gary]

Edited the above after testing.

Looking at the gearing.
34t x 42 gives a gear ratio of 0.81
36t x 42 gives 0.86
0.05 of a difference. That's nothing. (but fair enough if the ratio the motor starts to have trouble with is bang inbetween those two ratios.)

I've just been out and tested it in the second sprocket (37t and a ratio of 0.92) and it seems to want to cut out in this gear too (but also only in boost)

*Only tested quickly and on the road, it may well be more of a problem off-road if you use your lowest gears a lot. Can't really test any further for a few days.

 

[davosaurusrex]

Whilst I can't be bothered to get into an internet row I will just asked how I generated a "shitstorm"? As I recall I commented on a few of your more opinionated posts and then got a PM from you asking why we "couldn't cope with my (your) honesty". I replied in a pretty frank manner and you accused me of sidestepping your boo-hoos and called me a rude word. Thing is I think you have a lot of useful info to contribute but you will insist that you are always right and try and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with you. It may well be that you are a far better rider than everyone else on here combined but that doesn't mean you can't benefit from learning a little humility. This is a democracy and so while you are free to say it as you see it (within reason) it also means that others are free to respond. Your tag line says "deal with it Princess", maybe you should listen to your own advice?

Anyway, I've probably said too much and provoked another outpouring of unjustified indignation. You do seem to have reigned it in (a bit) since your return and I do appreciate the useful info in your reply above and hope that you'll continue to contribute to the forum

 

[Gary]

I'm not looking for an argument either. As I said, "let's just leave it at that, eh?" and I meant it. but in reply to your question. No. the shitstorm wasn't all you. it was also 3 others. I messaged all 4 of you to try and sort it out and move on. two didn't reply at all.
I've no problem with you. (From what you've just typed you still do with me, but as long as you can deal with it royally it's all cool)
FWIW I don't actually believe in democracy. and maybe have completely different humility scale and darker sense of humour to many. Nothing you've said has caused indignation.
No doubt bringing this up again will summon my odd little stalker pal Al Staley. Please spare me that.

Let's move on, eh?

No. I probably won't be switching to a 36T. If I were to change I'd probably go with the genuine shimano steel E8000 ring in 38T (The big S don't do a 36). But unless it turns out to be an actual problem it's unlikely I'll be switching any drivetrain parts anytime soon as I'm a run it til it slips kinda guy rather than a chain swapper. Like you I rarely ever use the 42 (except when the motor is switched off)

 

[davosaurusrex]

Looking at the clearance to the drive side chainstay I think 36 is as big as you can go on the Vitus

 

[Gary]

Hmm... hadn't even considered clearance issues. it does look close doesn't it? even for a 36t ring

If switching to a 36t ring really does solve it then so should switching from the 11-42 to an 11-40 cassette.
34tx40 being 0.85.
A higher top gear with the bigger chainring might be nice if you're not much of a spinner or ride a lot of roads though.

I also have a load of 10 speed XT/Saint/Zee stuff kicking about here so there's always the possibility to go down to an 11-36 10 speed cassette when it all wears out. Lighter, stronger, cheaper, Less chain etc. etc.

 

[Gary]

Did a local ride lastnight with a friend riding a normal fatbike (not that fatbikes are normal, but you know what I mean) around 3000ft climbing and climbing at slow speed using eco and accasionally trail, something I'd never do alone.
What I found.
de-restricted in lowest gear (34x42) the motor runs absolutely fine in eco and trail with no cutting out.
It's only Boost that gives intermittent cutting out and it also does it in second gear (34x37) but not as badly.
So if gearing is the reason it's cutting out, switching to a 36T sprocket wouldn't solve the issue. Higher gearing would however be helpful now it's so easy to pedal to 30mph to allow lower cadence at higher speeds.
I have a cheap (£5) 36T NW on order from china to try (just to see if it fits clearance wise really) so will report back in a few weeks about that but won't be swapping it out permanently unless I see a steel 36T ring (Shimano only seem to do 34 or 38T)

 

[davosaurusrex]

Mine turned up yesterday and it seems Where did you get the £5 chainring from, Aliexpress? I'm off the bike for another month at least so will wait for yours to turn up and see what the clearance is like. Also thinking of fitting the 10-42 SRAM cassette off my other bike for more top end but that will need a SRAM freehub for the DT Swiss so more £££

 

[Gary]

Ebay (But Aliexpress have them too). Deckas, Snail and Motsuv - all sell generic Alu NW rings of good quality for around a fiver posted.
I have a SRAM 10-42 on my Capra and love it but I wouldn't want a 10T sprocket on my Emtb.
As top gear is used far more on an Ebike MOAR power and LESS chain wrap (and less durability) XD 10T cassettes just don't seem the one to me.
Take it easy coming back to riding.

 

[davosaurusrex]

Couldn't see any for a fiver but ordered a snail 36 for 8 quid from HK, ta.

No rushing back that's for sure. BUPA consultant told me that the NHS didn't check the CT scan properly and that the break was much worse than they told me, as I've been riding for the last few months it hasn't healed so I'm off for a good few months yet I reckon. Still, looks like I won't need surgery so hopefully still a win

Think you're right on the SRAM cassettes to be honest, cheap and cheerful Shimano is the way to go. Was going to order a Canyon with EX1 originally, bloody glad I didn't!

 

[Gary]

Just enable it with the app. in the motor settings

 

[Gary]

TBH I might be tempted to go Shimano 10 speed when everything finally wears out for better VFM. I don't really even need the 42t sprocket and a shorter chain is always a bonus..

 

[Gary]

No rushing back that's for sure. BUPA consultant told me that the NHS didn't check the CT scan properly and that the break was much worse than they told me, as I've been riding for the last few months it hasn't healed so I'm off for a good few months yet I reckon. Still, looks like I won't need surgery so hopefully still a win

It really is a lottery who you see when you've briken bones isn't it? Hope it all works out well for you now you have better diagnosis

 

[Gary]

took ages for mine to connect first time but ever since it's connected quickly. Even with my new motor. Persevere is my only advice

 

[davosaurusrex]

After the top 10, obvs

 

[thebarber]

I thought y could turn lights on from the settings.
Anyway, my pear-tune pigged again today after petroleum jelly in connections, no worries ho us to pulled it and back to basics.
Pissed at it tho, it's my second.
I only really need it for flat trails but want it working , any ideas how to solve this?

 

[Gary]

You can turn the lights on/off from the head unit but you have to activate them from the App
What's happening to it? Connectors getting wet? dirty?
With the chip/wires/connectors installed there's a gap in the plastic cover at the top. I just ran some electrical tape over mine but did think about sealing it properly with some sort of putty/sealant. Sugru might work.

Bike is so much more fun on flat trails without the stupid 15mph restriction kicking in and out.
Same for short sprints (uphill/flat or DH)

 

[thebarber]

You can turn the lights on/off from the head unit but you have to activate them from the App
What's happening to it? Connectors getting wet? dirty?
With the chip/wires/connectors installed there's a gap in the plastic cover at the top. I just ran some electrical tape over mine but did think about sealing it properly with some sort of putty/sealant. Sugru might work.

Bike is so much more fun on flat trails without the stupid 15mph restriction kicking in and out.
Same for short sprints (uphill/flat or DH)

Defo getting wet = bad connection, probably from the top of motor plug.
100% on fun factor, took a bit o shite from uninitiated on ktm forum but wtf do they know

 

[thebarber]

I just used a smear of bathroom silicone. Easy to remove with a terminal screwdriver when fitting the Peartune too. Will redo it when I get it working, must have tried to get Etube to connect 200 times this avo!

Are y just pushing it into the motor terminal?