second proper clean, paintwork is awful!

[cjm_wales]

So I'm a couple of weeks into E-sommet VR ownership, and I'm enjoying how the bike rides.

I was pretty shocked to see how bad the paintwork is on the frame though - especially the crossbar.

I'm not aggressive when it comes to cleaning. I use muc-off & a soft brush on the heavily soiled bits. But the frame paint doesn't appear to have any sort of lacquer layer, and after a second wash it looks like it's aged several years. It's crazed, hazy, and looks like someone has attacked it with sandpaper.

Is this a common thing? I'm going to speak to CRC about it.

 

[Polaris]

Yep thats normal even using the softest brush or microfibre cloth, you can rub some crud off with your finger and leave micro scratches behind which clouds the black badly and makes it look a little crap. I invisiframed mine first week I had it and that acts like a tough clear coat that that paint job is missing. Failing that get a can of clear coat and laquer that bad boy up yourself

 

[N1ck]

Mines the same. Scuffed and chipped to fuck already. Not too fussed though, it's there to be ridden not look pretty.

 

[R120]

Mines not too bad after a year - it’s scuffed where I clamp the top tube on stand and where I attach frame bag, couple of chips from crashes, but I am not fussed as I like a bit of trail Patina.

Seems to be a common problem with a lot of EMTBS, seen a fair few Levos that haven’t worn well.

 

[N1ck]

Mines not too bad after a year - it’s scuffed where I clamp the top tube on stand and where I attach frame bag, couple of chips from crashes, but I am not fussed as I like a bit of trail Patina.

Seems to be a common problem with a lot of EMTBS, seen a fair few Levos that haven’t worn well.

My other bike is a 10 year old genesis hardtail. Had tons of use but the paint is in a better state. Sign of the times?

 

[cjm_wales]

By contrast, the paint on my Jam2 is still absolutely outstanding after many washes.

Guess I'm just too precious ?

 

[N1ck]

By contrast, the paint on my Jam2 is still absolutely outstanding after many washes.

Guess I'm just too precious ?

View attachment 15122

Washes? Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. My bike gets a hose down at best!

 

[Fivetones]

The car detailers I know would ask if you’d used the two bucket method or not.

You can polish that out actually but then I’d be protecting with something like Shack Wrap (doing my new Orange Surge next week - Shack Wrap – Protect Your Ride) or Invisiframe.

 

[cjm_wales]

The car detailers I know would ask if you’d used the two bucket method or not.

You can polish that out actually but then I’d be protecting with something like Shack Wrap (doing my new Orange Surge next week - Shack Wrap – Protect Your Ride) or Invisiframe.

I use the no bucket method ?

Muc-off, then agitation with a clean brush, then hose. It might be too late for invisiframe...

 

[Fivetones]

Well there you go. ?

Just ordinary car polish like Autoglym SRP will restore and to an extent protect. You can then Shack Wrap/Invisiframe. Then you can wash your 4K bike with a muddy yard brush.

 

[R120]

Surely the worst think you can do is agitate wipe when crapnon the bike? That’s what scratches it.

I just spray in whatever cleaner I have to hand, wait 5 minutes then wash all the crap off with a hose

 

[MattyB]

Completely agree, I wouldn’t get any sort of brush or cloth out until it’s been rinsed, muc off (or equivalent - even washing up liquid will do, the rubbish about it containing lots of salt is exactly that) sprayed on and re-rinsed. Only then will any stubborn bits get attention from a clean, wetted sponge or soft cloth.

 

[tonyker]

I had the same on my vitus after very few rides. I had it invisiframed and now looks good!

 

[Fivetones]

Completely agree, I wouldn’t get any sort of brush or cloth out until it’s been rinsed, muc off (or equivalent - even washing up liquid will do, the rubbish about it containing lots of salt is exactly that) sprayed on and re-rinsed. Only then will any stubborn bits get attention from a clean, wetted sponge or soft cloth.

The reason not to use washing up detergent is that it strips any wax or finish protection off the paint. This then allows mud to stick more.

I’ll be protecting mine all over with a ceramic protector (on all parts something like Carbon Collective products). It works well on my car - including components.

 

[RocketMagnet]

Washing up liquid is way too aggressive and usually contains salts which can cause galvanic corrosion at dissimilar metal interfaces if you don't get it all washed off completely.
I've seen a few bikes over the years with damage around the pivot links / shock mounts due to then using washing up liquid (the frame Aluminium was the sacrificial side of the galvanic cell created by the residual washing up liquid so it blistered and corroded).

Like others say those will just polish out then invisiframe, black shiny really shows up the scratches though IME.

 

[Gary]

Residual washing up liquid?

Really?

How on earth can you prove any corrosion has been caused by salt from washing up liquid?

a 5l bucket of hot soapy water water only needs about a teaspoon worth of washing up liquid to clean a bike so even if it contained 5% salt (it doesn't) that'd only be a total of 0.25g of salt in 5l of water. By the time it's rinsed off with clean running hose water how much salt do you honestly think is left on the bike?

Oh... and don't confuse your sodiums... sodium chloride is salt. sodium Laureth Sulfate is something very different.

there's more chance of residual salt from your sweat damaging your bike

... oh... hold on...

Ebikers don't sweat


Ps. there's nothing wrong with the paint on the ESommet. you've just not cleaned it very well.

 

[RocketMagnet]

The washing up liquid lowers the surface tension which promotes it to penetrate and seep into screw threads. It takes very small concentrations of Na+ an/or Cl- ions even just a few ppm to set up a galvanic cell.

Ironically in a previous life I was a research/development chemist on a chemical plant and we made SLS both Laureth and Lauryl. I became sensitised to it but it eventually died off which was a nightmare until it did as finding products without SLS was difficult even toothpaste contains it but that caused me no issues just surface skin contact. Anyway changing jobs fixed it...
So yeah I think I understand enough about it to not bother arguing about it on the internet... where's the fun in arguing when you know what your talking about

Main reason is 2X friends both had Yeti 575s and used Washing Up Liquid and they both suffered from galvanic corrosion at the linkage and shock mounts Ti/Al interfaces within about a year. One got an SB66 the other a replacement 575 frame and stopped using WUL and neither suffered from frame corrosion after this. m8 still has his 575 actually as it's currently being stored in my garage and had a quick look just now and its still fine 10 years on...

 

[Gary]

Thanks for explaining.

I'm guessing Ti is a lot worse than steel for corroding in this way? Hence the greater need for Ti prep/antiseize with ti fasteners? I kinda hate titanium as a pushbike material.

FWIW I've only ever used washing up liquid in hot water to wash bikes. hundreds of bikes over a 30yr+ period. I can't lie, the odd bolt has seized but nothing even vaguely comparable to what you've described with your mates Yetis.

Yeti never did seem too good at designing a british weather bike. remember these things

with their UK winter friendly rail sliders?

 

[Ginsterdrz]

I was told NEVER to use Muc off when I bought a new bike. The shop had bad experiences affecting paintwork and components. They recommend Autoglym neutral car shampoo as it's not corrosive.

 

[Pdoz]

I find a good organic coating stops me noticing scratches

 

[R120]

I find a good organic coating stops me noticing scratches

View attachment 15202

Muc-On works a treat

 

[RocketMagnet]

Thanks for explaining.

I'm guessing Ti is a lot worse than steel for corroding in this way? Hence the greater need for Ti prep/antiseize with ti fasteners? I kinda hate titanium as a pushbike material.

Yeti never did seem too good at designing a british weather bike. remember these things

with their UK winter friendly rail sliders?

Yes Ti:Al are particularly bad, worse than SS:Al. Ti and Al are at opposite ends of Cathode/Anode lists and the Al is the Anode so corrodes. Modern bikes now avoid this.

 

[brizi2003]

My latest thinking is leaning towards not washing your bike at all with any detergent of any kind, since most will remove any grease etc. from places where its supposed to be. It seems washing (or de-greasing) in general seems to cause more problems than it actually solves. Of course if you want your bike to look nice this is a bit of a problem. If you do decide to wash your bike though then rubbing in dirt with a brush or cloth or whatever is bound to cause surface scratching but will show up more on certain paint finishes. My son is very particular with his new car and bought a 'special' wash that foams and lifts the dirt off so it can then be rinsed without scrubbing of course then dried by 'dabbing' not rubbing (sad I know) but it rarely takes him less than 3 hours to wash the car! There's literally no end to advice as to the best way to clean your bike.

 

[Fivetones]

Ask your son’s advice. I used to show modified cars, there’s a lot of good products out there that can equally be used on a bike.

A good ceramic product can protect a clean bike for many months and it will shrug off mud as it is highly hydrophobic.

 

[brizi2003]

Ask your son’s advice. I used to show modified cars, there’s a lot of good products out there that can equally be used on a bike.

A good ceramic product can protect a clean bike for many months and it will shrug off mud as it is highly hydrophobic.

You have a valid point. The ceramic coatings are great but need to be applied to clean/scratch-free paintwork otherwise your just sealing in the scratches. BICYCLE ARMOR

 

[Fivetones]

Just polish scratches out first. The coatings are so good these days they can cope with a lot. You can even apply with a snow foam lance as a top up these days too (though I’d take care to cover brakes etc!).

 

[brizi2003]

Just polish scratches out first. The coatings are so good these days they can cope with a lot. You can even apply with a snow foam lance as a top up these days too (though I’d take care to cover brakes etc!).

Does anyone make a bike specific ceramic coating you can apply yourself?

 

[Mad Mark]

I just don't wash mine - stops you seeing any damage you might have done falling off ?

 

[Fivetones]

Yes. I collect my new Orange Surge this week. Most components will be getting treated with Carbon Collective Platinum Wheels.

Carbon Collective | Platinum Wheels Ceramic Coating

My car is protected with CC products.

 

[cjm_wales]

I should add, after the 4th proper ride, that the bike itself is just awesome ?