Orbea Rise adjustable geometry 64-65.5?

[carlbiker]

So yesterday I saw this on a Kenevo SL advert and the more I looked into the bike the more I loved other than the poxy motor ofc:

‘The Turbo Kenevo Super Light geometry can be fine-tuned for wherever and however you ride. Six distinct geometry settings allow easy adjustment to hone performance in any terrain. Head angle can be adjusted between 63 and 65.5 degrees. The bottom bracket height can be fine-tuned up or down by 7mm. We’ve never made a more adjustable, adaptable trail bike.’

Does anyone know how their doing this and can it be done on our Rises?

I’m trying to maintain the nicer upright feel (and abit of pop) for bike parks and XC so 65.5 and maybe keep the 210x55 air shock.

Then for dh tech/enduro stuff use an EXT storia v3 coil but it’s how we get to 64. I’ve seen examples of mullet with an offset bush using 216x63 and increase 160 fork and 163 rear travel but with a mullet.

At this point the fork has been upped which slackens the geo by 0.5 so it’s become 65, does adding an offset bush make it 65.5 again?

A 2.6 front tyres slackens by 0.5, I could use one of those if I was to aim toward 64 days.

The simple question would be, is it possible to get 65.5 and 64 using 29er on 210x55 without making the ride crap?

If not then if it’s a mullet option with the 216x63 then can that ever work as 65.5?

I’m guessing it’s one of the other….if so I defo need two shocks.

Just trying to work out if mullet is essential to get to 64 degrees really as I’ll leave that option for a while I think which may also mean I have to drop the coil idea also.

I know some can’t be assed with tinkering but I know others who do and seem to get a lot more out of their rides for doing so, if anything be nice to know and understand the options.

 

[RickBullotta]

Would a RockShox Zeb Dual Position Air do the trick? Can switch between 150mm and 180mm.

 

[carlbiker]

Would a RockShox Zeb Dual Position Air do the trick? Can switch between 150mm and 180mm.

Oh that’s an interesting one, I hear good things about Zeb, I recall @Rob Rides EMTB preferring Zeb to Fox.....

I wasn’t really planning on changing the fork right away as it seems to get rave reviews unlike the fox shock, maybe just add an air shaft but then I worry about losing that little poppy snap it has at 150. Also my limited understanding of suspension is the front needs 10mm more travel than the rear (according to what suspension places tell me) which then puzzles me on the mullet 160/160 setup......

Would be a bonus if I could use an adjustable fork with 29ers to get the geo down around 64 but I know that might not be the case, have you ever played with something like this before and if so was it worthwhile?

Be easier if I only liked one style of riding but Ive enjoyed everything the steed can ride on, other than canals or long stretches of flat terrain ofc, she started to swear at me and also bucks me OTB at random intervals when I insult her in this way!

I knew when buying a rise by design it’s a trail bike, the 150/140 travel suggested that and the 65.5 head angle.

I wanted the Forestal Syrion originally but couldn’t be bothered with the Beta testing (already uncured paint peeling off or stones scratching it off) lack of reviews, infrastructure or delivery dates so opted for the Rise hoping it could be versatile in allowing some adjusting then after reading about the Kenova being changeable it’s nice to see other offerings are also in-tune with that idea. I’ll keep this bike years now (famous last words ?)

 

[RickBullotta]

Oh that’s an interesting one, I hear good things about Zeb, I recall @Rob Rides EMTB preferring Zeb to Fox.....

I wasn’t really planning on changing the fork right away as it seems to get rave reviews unlike the fox shock, maybe just add an air shaft but then I worry about losing that little poppy snap it has at 150. Also my limited understanding of suspension is the front needs 10mm more travel than the rear (according to what suspension places tell me) which then puzzles me on the mullet 160/160 setup......

Would be a bonus if I could use an adjustable fork with 29ers to get the geo down around 64 but I know that might not be the case, have you ever played with something like this before and if so was it worthwhile?

Be easier if I only liked one style of riding but Ive enjoyed everything the steed can ride on, other than canals or long stretches of flat terrain ofc, she started to swear at me and also bucks me OTB at random intervals when I insult her in this way!

I knew when buying a rise by design it’s a trail bike, the 150/140 travel suggested that and the 65.5 head angle.

I wanted the Forestal Syrion originally but couldn’t be bothered with the Beta testing (already uncured paint peeling off or stones scratching it off) lack of reviews, infrastructure or delivery dates so opted for the Rise hoping it could be versatile in allowing some adjusting then after reading about the Kenova being changeable it’s nice to see other offerings are also in-tune with that idea. I’ll keep this bike years now (famous last words ?)

I generally have slackened every bike I've owned eventually with a 10mm taller fork or a crown race spacer. I also like a higher BB for the stuff we ride around here. I switch between 27.5 and 29 occasionally but haven't done the mullet thing (at least not since about 1983, when I rocked a real mullet).

 

[Dirtnvert]

Whats the offset on the fork?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Whats the offset on the fork?

Just give him a second to look it up ...

 

[carlbiker]

I generally have slackened every bike I've owned eventually with a 10mm taller fork or a crown race spacer. I also like a higher BB for the stuff we ride around here. I switch between 27.5 and 29 occasionally but haven't done the mullet thing (at least not since about 1983, when I rocked a real mullet).

The glory days!

Whats the offset on the fork?

Fox 36 Float Factory 150 Grip2 Kashima (15x110), offset is 44mm cheers

 

[carlbiker]

Just give him a second to look it up ...

View attachment 67927

=sum:u8 ?

 

[Dirtnvert]

My meta am enduro bike with the 44offset has a 63.7 stock head angle and theres no problem with wheel flop, even on steep climbs. The extra reach and steep seat angle play a part but its still fine when im standing and clombing.
Maybe a -1 degree headset and 64 degree head angle?
Later if you add a same e to e and stroke coil it could have one offset bushing making it 63.5 head angle(or reversed offset bushing and 27.5 rear wheel for 63.5). Put one offset bushing reversed in the air shock to get a 64.5 ha for the xc days
Pretty sure carl's future mod dreaming are 50/50 at this point. 50% wanting to dial things in and 50% gaslight zimmer ?

 

[carlbiker]

My meta am enduro bike with the 44offset has a 63.7 stock head angle and theres no problem with wheel flop, even on steep climbs. The extra reach and steep seat angle play a part but its still fine when im standing and clombing.
Maybe a -1 degree headset and 64 degree head angle?
Later if you add a same e to e and stroke coil it could have one offset bushing making it 63.5 head angle(or reversed offset bushing and 27.5 rear wheel for 63.5). Put one offset bushing reversed in the air shock to get a 64.5 ha for the xc days
Pretty sure carl's future mod dreaming are 50/50 at this point. 50% wanting to dial things in and 50% gaslight zimmer ?

What would the 65.5 to 64.5 option be....maybe 64.5 is that nice in between place, or just crap at everything! ?

 

[Dirtnvert]

What would the 65.5 to 64.5 option be....maybe 64.5 is that nice in between place, or just crap at everything! ?

Before the new offset forks became a thing 65.5 was my happy place but i could cope with a 65 despite starting to feel i had dipped over the threshold for happy all around handling. I think that spot is 64-64.5 now or a touch less because im totally fine with my 63.7.
Another cost effective trial, before you commit to a $200 headset, is one of the reverse components -.5 degree headset spacer/race($20) and an offset shock pushing($45). Your added 10mm travel on your fork plus the headset spacer plus an offset bushing is almost 1.5 degrees of possible change. Good things to have in the parts box even if you dont end up using them all right away.
For instance you can use the offset bushing in a variety of ways , like i said in my previous post. Same with that headset spacer/race, it slackens the bike .5 degrees, gives the fork crown clearance from the frame, and raises the bb 3 mm. I put one offset bushing reversed in my shock and added 10mm travel to my fork and that brought the bb back to near stock after i mulleted my meta am 29. Head and seat angle were slackened about a degree but that suited the longer stroked , mulletized now park bike.
With offset bushings , they work best, in most cases , where the shock eyelet mounts to the frame. That shock pivot doesnt rotate much , if any, so it won't spin the offset bushing. The shock pivot at the linkage of some bikes can have a lot of rotation and can spin the offset bushing. Not a problem on my meta as neither shock pivots rotate any. On my decoy i just have one offset bushing at the shock/ frame pivot. I wouldnt put one at the linkage/shock pivot

 

[Pdoz]

I’m guessing it’s one of the other….if so I defo need two shocks.

Just trying to work out if mullet is essential to get to 64 degrees really as I’ll leave that option for a while I think which may also mean I have to drop the coil idea also.

Have you considered getting an air shock modified so you can adjust it whilst riding to be two shocks ? Something like Scott do with their twinlock system- instead of just changing dampening they change the air volume and effectively reduce travel in x country mode. That'll change your effective head angles when you're riding - it's not as cool as being able to point at bling and quote figures , but try riding something like a scott genius to see what I mean.

Bonus - you could have a stealth rise , all the full power guys will be wondering why you can beat them uphill with "just" an rs motor

 

[carlbiker]

Have you considered getting an air shock modified so you can adjust it whilst riding to be two shocks ? Something like Scott do with their twinlock system- instead of just changing dampening they change the air volume and effectively reduce travel in x country mode. That'll change your effective head angles when you're riding - it's not as cool as being able to point at bling and quote figures , but try riding something like a scott genius to see what I mean.

Bonus - you could have a stealth rise , all the full power guys will be wondering why you can beat them uphill with "just" an rs motor

I mean that’s super interesting but the stock shock is only 140 travel, in terms of geo it would be nice if it specified what degree it’s changing things a it’s a little unclear, love the concept though be so handy to hit a lever!

ive some steep stuff coming up in a few weeks in the lakes hence why I’m looking into the 64 option

 

[Shjay]

Has anyone mulleted the Rise without long shocking the rear? Just 160mm up front to raise bb before 27.5 rear lowers it again!

 

[Pdoz]

I mean that’s super interesting but the stock shock is only 140 travel, in terms of geo it would be nice if it specified what degree it’s changing things a it’s a little unclear, love the concept though be so handy to hit a lever!

ive some steep stuff coming up in a few weeks in the lakes hence why I’m looking into the 64 option

On the genius, it switches between 150 mm and 90 mm travel. Its not a flip chip that changes resting geometry , its a bit like being able to add / remove tokens at the top of every hill AND adjust air pressure at the same time.. For perspective, my daughters analogue genius 940 has very similar geometry to my levo sl with a 160 mm fork. Eyes closed, down hill they feel identical. Flip that lever to the middle, and the bike steers a LOT quicker, more like my sons norco optic , AND its easy to pedal as the levo in eco.

 

[carlbiker]

Has anyone mulleted the Rise without long shocking the rear? Just 160mm up front to raise bb before 27.5 rear lowers it again!

I’d also like to know that, I’ve decided on buying an ext storia and will probably buy a smashpot also, I’ve already put magic mary and big Betty on the rise, basically anything to full fat the thing oddly ? (I’m not going to keep the tyres I don’t think, 2.7kg) thanks

 

[Shjay]

buying an ext storia

So you gonna go 216x63 or 210x55

 

[carlbiker]

So you gonna go 216x63 or 210x55

Im not sure it’s feasible to get 64 degrees well without the longer shock. What I know so far is:

216x63
160-170 fork, 2 offset bushes for 29er, 65-66HT, 350 BB
160-170 fork, 0-2 for mullet, 63-64.5 HT, 340 BB

340mm is still abit low but you could offset that running a 2.5 tyre a little from what I gather.....

So my plan unless anyone sees a better way is to keep the 210x55 dpx2, buy a 216x63 (either ohlins or storia) and look at the best fork that can switch between 150/160 travel.

I know the Ohlins fork does this but it’s not as good for small bumps and is more for heavy hitters I think. You can even plonk a coil inside it and switch back. I have a dealer a stones throw away though. Not sure on the Era, I’d sell my fox 36 new if it came down to it as I’m not planning to ride until I’ve the concept settled.

 

[Shjay]

I have a manitou Mezzer up front easy to adjust between 140-180mm via spacers, great fork, stiff & supple & lighter than a 38 or Zeb, just bought a cheap rockshox off eBay 216x63 to try with offset bushing already have a 27.5 wheel with 2.4 Michelin ewild tyre

 

[Dirtnvert]

I hear good things on the mezzer. All the new manitou stuff actuslly and hayes dominion brakes(manito, hayes, sun ringle,answer are under the same banner). Decent prices too.
Not sure what the axle to crown is but i noticed my fox 38 180 is 10ish mm more acle to crown than my yari/lyric 180 and possibly a fox 36. I'd imagine a zeb would be similar axle to crown as a 38 but thats another data point worth considering when calculating head angle

 

[carlbiker]

I have a manitou Mezzer up front easy to adjust between 140-180mm via spacers, great fork, stiff & supple & lighter than a 38 or Zeb, just bought a cheap rockshox off eBay 216x63 to try with offset bushing already have a 27.5 wheel with 2.4 Michelin ewild tyre

Oh nice!! be interested to hear your findings. Increasing travel with spacers sounds pretty good, any down sounds to that method?

 

[nB2000]

Hey Carlbiker. Read your post as I am interested in the Rise and the Kenevo SL.
just thinking about your desire to switch geometry around when riding in different places.
its tempting to go down that rabbit hole and as a Geometron G1 owner I have a massive range of feasible adjustments. I’ve found though that setting a 338 BB and 63 degree head with a 29 160 short offset Lyrik (44?) an 275 rear wheel works everywhere.
Once above walking pace the flop disappears.
I’d recommend you try get used to one optimised setting - the rabbit hole of adjustment means you’re always wondering if your “other” option would be better when out on a ride.
It’s costly owning multiple shocks too.
An adjustable travel fork seems an idea - until you realise that it lowers and raises the BB away from optimum.
Go slack and low (338 BB) and just enjoy it. Having one bike / one setting means your body will properly learn the bike too.
Yeah swop tyres for XC, but my 2C is keep away from widths above 2.5.

 

[carlbiker]

Hey Carlbiker. Read your post as I am interested in the Rise and the Kenevo SL.
just thinking about your desire to switch geometry around when riding in different places.
its tempting to go down that rabbit hole and as a Geometron G1 owner I have a massive range of feasible adjustments. I’ve found though that setting a 338 BB and 63 degree head with a 29 160 short offset Lyrik (44?) an 275 rear wheel works everywhere.
Once above walking pace the flop disappears.
I’d recommend you try get used to one optimised setting - the rabbit hole of adjustment means you’re always wondering if your “other” option would be better when out on a ride.
It’s costly owning multiple shocks too.
An adjustable travel fork seems an idea - until you realise that it lowers and raises the BB away from optimum.
Go slack and low (338 BB) and just enjoy it. Having one bike / one setting means your body will properly learn the bike too.
Yeah swop tyres for XC, but my 2C is keep away from widths above 2.5.

Cheers appreciate that advice!

I’ve to make the decision by tomorrow really and I’m still unsure which is kinda why a geo change on one hand is good as it gives me chance to see which works best but the flip side is like you say harder to get used to things.

A wiser me would probably say, try if first and if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it…..the frugal me looks at price of Fox products which for a similar price could be better switching, suspension guys have never once recommended fox over the others….

BB wise stock is 336mm on 65.5 150/140 (rear) fox 36 grip 2 and dpx2. One shop owner ups to 160mm and adds 0.5 degree angle spacer too, so figuring 64.5, a 2.6 tyre then slackens maybe close to 64 although you warned against that….not too sure at this point where the BB sits at or if an offset bush is needed but sounds a simple setup, his words were the bike ‘comes alive’ and he literally sells every rise with that 160/10mm angle spacer setup.

Im only even considering forks as I can sell mine new and it’s not much more for an Ohlins as an example, you can put a coil in but the Ohlins guy said 95% stick with air.

Upkeeps a big thing to me though, I’d even consider keeping my fox fork and buy a fox shock (new improved one) if the maintenance is less/cheaper. I’ve seen people spend £300 in a year just for an Ohlins shock service, the shocks like £800….I’ll keep the air shock, it’s not an expensive part and worth losing £150 to sell later if I do, I can get the experience of them both that way too.

your more dh by looks, maybe that’s your bias?

I’ll be like 50% trails 30% XC 20% Enduro. It’s not in order of preference but more reality. It’s when shit gets real in that 20% id I’d like to have the support, so I’d lose a little on the trails for the dh techy stuff. As time goes on I’ll probably gravitate more to dh also. It seems slacker and a mullet might assist there.


Would you agree on those changes with a mullet setup 160/160 coil shock? Maybe it’s why you settled on the mullet? For me to do this I’d have to swap the shock size to 216x63, Ohlins guy warned against it despite the examples I’ve given (who happen to be suspension engineers) and stick to the proper eye to eye…..hmmm I like the above characteristic changes personally and trust the guys who are riding this setup with success enough to still consider

Tricky one….it’s gonna be a case of suck things and see….I should perhaps have worded that better ?

 

[Shjay]

BB height is 336mm for 140mm fork just measured mine at 344 with 160mm Mezzer will measure later when fit 27.5 wheel

 

[Shjay]

About 332mm with 27.5 wheel with 2.4 wild enduro rear that’s on standard M20 rear shock 140mm front tyre 2.4 XR4i team issue

 

[Zimmerframe]

Tricky one….it’s gonna be a case of suck things and see….I should perhaps have worded that better ?

It's an M-Team isn't it ? I'll tell you what. I'll take it off your hands before you have to goto all this trouble. I'll keep it completely standard so as not to abuse your generosity and thoroughly enjoy myself at the same time - meanwhile - to sweeten the deal, I guarantee I'll get at least 10 KOM's in the first week to prove it's completely fine and if not I'll give you the value of the bike back in cash and you can keep the Rampage bike below.

To make things fair, I'll buy you this :

It has much better than 27.5 wheels back AND front ! This thing can Whip ! No worries on BB with no motor there to hit. Very very short chainstay and wheelbase for optimum handling. Centrally mounted energy storage system, again for optimum handling. Comfortable saddle. Very high front bars, so it's virtually impossible to go over the bars. Sporty 63 degree head angle. HUGE Disk brakes which are 50% the size of the wheels ! Steep seat tube for good climbing. Very very very poppy ! Straight through seat tube for limitless dropper post length !

Absolutely no worries or concerns when choosing or changing front or rear suspension, meanwhile everything about it is SHOCK !

Built in anti theft design.

Deal ?

 

[Dirtnvert]

That deal might have more to consider than the mods considered on the rise

 

[nB2000]

Cheers appreciate that advice!

I’ve to make the decision by tomorrow really and I’m still unsure which is kinda why a geo change on one hand is good as it gives me chance to see which works best but the flip side is like you say harder to get used to things.

A wiser me would probably say, try if first and if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it…..the frugal me looks at price of Fox products which for a similar price could be better switching, suspension guys have never once recommended fox over the others….

BB wise stock is 336mm on 65.5 150/140 (rear) fox 36 grip 2 and dpx2. One shop owner ups to 160mm and adds 0.5 degree angle spacer too, so figuring 64.5, a 2.6 tyre then slackens maybe close to 64 although you warned against that….not too sure at this point where the BB sits at or if an offset bush is needed but sounds a simple setup, his words were the bike ‘comes alive’ and he literally sells every rise with that 160/10mm angle spacer setup.

Im only even considering forks as I can sell mine new and it’s not much more for an Ohlins as an example, you can put a coil in but the Ohlins guy said 95% stick with air.

Upkeeps a big thing to me though, I’d even consider keeping my fox fork and buy a fox shock (new improved one) if the maintenance is less/cheaper. I’ve seen people spend £300 in a year just for an Ohlins shock service, the shocks like £800….I’ll keep the air shock, it’s not an expensive part and worth losing £150 to sell later if I do, I can get the experience of them both that way too.

your more dh by looks, maybe that’s your bias?

I’ll be like 50% trails 30% XC 20% Enduro. It’s not in order of preference but more reality. It’s when shit gets real in that 20% id I’d like to have the support, so I’d lose a little on the trails for the dh techy stuff. As time goes on I’ll probably gravitate more to dh also. It seems slacker and a mullet might assist there.

View attachment 68480
Would you agree on those changes with a mullet setup 160/160 coil shock? Maybe it’s why you settled on the mullet? For me to do this I’d have to swap the shock size to 216x63, Ohlins guy warned against it despite the examples I’ve given (who happen to be suspension engineers) and stick to the proper eye to eye…..hmmm I like the above characteristic changes personally and trust the guys who are riding this setup with success enough to still consider

Tricky one….it’s gonna be a case of suck things and see….I should perhaps have worded that better ?

Note that changing shock length changes the way the lever works. So the kinematic changes.
It amazes me how so many shops can sell a brand new bike and advise (sell) a ton of upgrades to it. Shocks and forks are bloody expensive.
the bike designers took a lot of time to optimise the stock model you know. It’s a popular bike - as it is. I’d try it.
Fox shocks are ok especially the X2. Nowhere near my EXT though. That’s a revaluation.
the Geometron guys ride pretty close geo to me and do plenty of long distance Xc just with lighter wheels. The Geometron philosophy is ONE BIKE. I think that’s right.
I do really enjoy the downward fast stuff but also tight singletrack in the woods and occasional long rides. Geometron designer Chris Porter believes all mtb should be 63 head and with a steep seat tube. My reach is 535mm (I’m 6’2”). It really feels amazing to be on a bike that fits. And steers so beautifully.
If they made the Specialized SL in S5 geo I’d be wanting that. As it is the Kenevo tempts me.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That deal might have more to consider than the mods considered on the rise

Time for a new spreadsheet ???

 

[Dirtnvert]

Spreadsheet!!!