Open letter to Focus

[Eddy Current]

Dear Focus: The Jam2 Carbon frame Shimano is amazing. Even if it has integrated battery.

18.5 kilos can be achieved with this frame, that’s amazing, with a proper motor.

I know is still for sale on 2020 full mount ebikes, but when the time comes, please keep selling the frame with the 378 battery for ever!

Two suggestions, a bit shorter chainst and carbon rear triangle. Even lighter even more playful.

Be aware chinese open mold ebikes frames are available, but this one has already a quality and performance “pedrigee” by owners, reviews etc.

By a fair price new riders with regular bikes seeking for a first ebike, or people with ebikes looking for a 2 hours local trails on a ultralight setup ebike ... this frame with a fair price and a few improvements is going to be an option to consider for anybody

Someone please send this letter!

 

[outerlimits]

You forgot to add no 29ers and bring back 26” as a second wheel choice. ?‍ Thus making their bikes even lighter and more nimble. ?

 

[S D]

Dear Focus: The Jam2 Carbon frame Shimano is amazing. Even if it has integrated battery.

18.5 kilos can be achieved with this frame, that’s amazing, with a proper motor.

I know is still for sale on 2020 full mount ebikes, but when the time comes, please keep selling the frame with the 378 battery for ever!

Two suggestions, a bit shorter chainst and carbon rear triangle. Even lighter even more playful.

Be aware chinese open mold ebikes frames are available, but this one has already a quality and performance “pedrigee” by owners, reviews etc.

By a fair price new riders with regular bikes seeking for a first ebike, or people with ebikes looking for a 2 hours local trails on a ultralight setup ebike ... this frame with a fair price and a few improvements is going to be an option to consider for anybody

Someone please send this letter!

Ok so I’m down to 19.9 kg with mine , I’m interested to know how to achieve the 18.5?

 

[GrahamPaul]

Ok so I’m down to 19.9 kg with mine , I’m interested to know how to achieve the 18.5?

Take the pedals off?

 

[Gary]

If only Focus-bikes had some way of contacting them directly...

www.focus-bikes.com/gb_en/contact

 

[Eddy Current]

If only Focus-bikes had some way of contacting them directly...

www.focus-bikes.com/gb_en/contact

And you think they gonna answer like “hey men nice idea let’s do it!“ ?

Its better to throw the idea here in a forum and see what people think.

I bet somebody from focus check the forum from time to time. The thread title is a nice clickbait.

@S D the Focus C SL claim to weight 18.25 kilos. I add 250 because you know, they tend to forget or reverse some numbers.

But it does with no carbon on handle bars, cranks or stem, and the wheels are not the lightest. So if it’s true it’s around 18.5, men, sub 18 is doable

Whats your Jam? Carbon frame? Wich specs? We can calculate from a true source weight

 

[S D]

And you think they gonna answer like “hey men nice idea let’s do it!“ ?

Its better to throw the idea here in a forum and see what people think.

I bet somebody from focus check the forum from time to time. The thread title is a nice clickbait.

@S D the Focus C SL claim to weight 18.25 kilos. I add 250 because you know, they tend to forget or reverse some numbers.

But it does with no carbon on handle bars, cranks or stem, and the wheels are not the lightest. So if it’s true it’s around 18.5, men, sub 18 is doable

Whats your Jam? Carbon frame? Wich specs? We can calculate from a true source weight

I have the carbon 9.6 plus , without tubes and few more small tweaks

 

[ifu03558]

Dear Focus: The Jam2 Carbon frame Shimano is amazing. Even if it has integrated battery.

18.5 kilos can be achieved with this frame, that’s amazing, with a proper motor.

I know is still for sale on 2020 full mount ebikes, but when the time comes, please keep selling the frame with the 378 battery for ever!

Two suggestions, a bit shorter chainst and carbon rear triangle. Even lighter even more playful.

Be aware chinese open mold ebikes frames are available, but this one has already a quality and performance “pedrigee” by owners, reviews etc.

By a fair price new riders with regular bikes seeking for a first ebike, or people with ebikes looking for a 2 hours local trails on a ultralight setup ebike ... this frame with a fair price and a few improvements is going to be an option to consider for anybody

Someone please send this letter!

Dont forgot to ask for 2.8 tyres to keep it really nimble

 

[Eddy Current]

I have the carbon 9.6 plus , without tubes and few more small tweaks

i guess it’s alloy elsewhere, right?

 

[Beekeeper]

Ok so I’m down to 19.9 kg with mine , I’m interested to know how to achieve the 18.5?

Could even get down to 2kg if you removed pedals, frame, motor, battery, drive train.

 

[Beekeeper]

I take that back. I think you still need the pedals ?

 

[Eddy Current]

Well, i take the weight weenie calculator ... maybe Sub 19 is possible, only in wheels tires I belive you can save over 0.5 kilos. Then other 0.25 in carbon bits. The other 0.25 you’re into “the most lighter” dropper, cassette, hubs, brakes etc

18.5 maybe is possible but is about extreme specs.

However sub19 is not bad at all

I wonder how much weight you can save with carbon chainstays ... ???

 

[GrahamPaul]

Three years ago I went into my LBS to buy my first ever mountain bike. The conversation went something like this:

LBS: "But for another grand you can get this model which will weigh 3kg less."

Me: "I'll keep the grand and get rid of 10kg here!" (Me says, pointing to gut).

I'm glad I kept the grand as it's gone towards the two new eMTBs. The heavier bike got rid of the 10kg, although there's still another 8kg I really want to get rid of, which I'm hoping to do once my soddin' bike finally appears. (You have no idea how that 200m climb at 10% in the last 2km home really messes with your desire to go out and ride.)

Rather reminds me of my motorbike days. All my mates buying carbon fibre fuel caps to save 15g of weight - and then heading in for a "full English" at the Little Chef...

Unless you are carrying the bike on your back up a mountain, why bother spending huge sums to save a few hundred grammes? Okay, maybe the pro-racers need it as part of their marginal gains, but surely this is nothing for the real world other than waving your willy and shouting that you've got a bigger (or lighter!) one than everyone else. What is the point? Pray do tell.

 

[steve_sordy]

Well I wouldn't go as far as carbon fibre fuel caps! Or even as far as swapping out all the bolts for titanium ones either. And I have come to agree with many on here that when you have wattage on tap, then weight is not as important as it is on a clockwork bike.

For me the point of weight saving is when it comes to having to actually lift the bike. I'm meaning like over a gate or a style, or onto the roof rack. I can hear you thinking "23kg is not heavy, why bother getting it down to 20kg?" I agree when you are fit and well, but what if you have a permanently dodgy back (me), or maybe you've had an involuntary dismount and damaged a shoulder, so that your elbow just will not rise above 45 deg from your body in any direction? (me again, more than once).

 

[GrahamPaul]

For me the point of weight saving is when it comes to having to actually lift the bike. I'm meaning like over a gate or a style, or onto the roof rack. I can hear you thinking "23kg is not heavy, why bother getting it down to 20kg?"

I'll give you that. My missus has gone for the "touring equipped" Thron², which must top the scales at about 28kg, what with hefty pannier racks and massive steel mudguards. I have no idea how I'm going to lift it over the fences around here - although that 3kg of battery is going to come out.

Which I think makes a valid point: a bike with an internal battery weighing 19.5 kg versus a bike weighing 23 kg costing 5 grand less but with a 3 kg battery that can be easily popped out. And, if I'm going to climb mountains, would I really want to do it with an eMTB strapped to my back for any distance, no matter what the weight?

 

[Eddy Current]

Gentleman’s this is not about weight weenierism... it’s about:

You got a nice XC ebike or already a ebike with carbon wheels and other light bits (even if they are 29 )

You look for your first/new/wife or plan B ebike, and you find this superlight frame for sale

What you gonna do, buy a full and heavier ebike or one of lightest cheaper frames?

How much cost the sub20 ebikes?

You follow me?

 

[renedis]

@Eddy Current First you bash around about 29" wheels and now this.
Let me quote you from the "Just say no to 29ers":

All I try to say is that just say no to standars. I hate the 29er trend the integrated battery trend ... if the big brands begin to 29er their bikes the others has to follow. And then there’s no options or little. That’s what I mean when the just say no ... options, always options, not marketing standars. You can always swap wheels right? But a frame designed for 29ers is not going to be 27.5 frame because you put 27.5 on it

29er are not grails, it must be an option, not a standard like it seems is coming to ebikes too

Here you say that you hate the integrated battery trend. And now you're loving the Focus Jam2 bike with.. guess what, INTEGRATED battery.

 

[Gary]

 

[Eddy Current]

@Eddy Current First you bash around about 29" wheels and now this.
Let me quote you from the "Just say no to 29ers":

Here you say that you hate the integrated battery trend. And now you're loving the Focus Jam2 bike with.. guess what, INTEGRATED battery.

Renedis did you understand the difference between a 378w non removable battery and a 600-700wh integrated removable, in terms of weight and geometry?

I doubt an no integrated alloy for 500wh batterys is lighter than this

 

[MartinW148]

And you think they gonna answer like “hey men nice idea let’s do it!“ ?

Its better to throw the idea here in a forum and see what people think.

I bet somebody from focus check the forum from time to time. The thread title is a nice clickbait.

@S D the Focus C SL claim to weight 18.25 kilos. I add 250 because you know, they tend to forget or reverse some numbers.

But it does with no carbon on handle bars, cranks or stem, and the wheels are not the lightest. So if it’s true it’s around 18.5, men, sub 18 is doable

Whats your Jam? Carbon frame? Wich specs? We can calculate from a true source weight

I have the Jam2 C Plus, I think initially rated at 21kg....
What the big change to get down to 18kg? (ish)

I don't really have another 3kg of body mass to loose....

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

I have the 2018 Jam2 Carbon plus. I put CF Rustler Salsa bars on it, light even for carbon at 221 g. I also found some magnesium pedals which I like a lot, Xpedo, 270 g per set so extremely light for a flat pedal. I am running 29"/27.5" CF rims, tubeless and Maxxis Minion 2.5"/2.8" tires. The Rekons are much lighter (100-150 g each) but not realistic, very little traction. My wheel set, Exile+, was given to me and is at least 0.75 kg lighter (1750 g for the Exile+) than the Novatec 40 mm wheel set, so I saved a bit there. I'm also running a fairly lightweight WTB seat and CF water bottle cage. Oh I also put the XT 11-46 rear cassette on, which is maybe 50 g lighter than the SLX although that's not the reason I put it on. My bike is still 45 lbs or about 20.4 kg so I'm not really sure how it could be much much lighter. I guess using the Rekon tires might drop it down a bit more but I just don't see how it can possibly be another 2 kg lighter. Still, lifting my bike up on the bike carrier is a lot easier than a 50+ lb bike and the range is more than adequate for me.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Dear Focus: The Jam2 Carbon frame Shimano is amazing.

BUT ... Actually ... can you make a completely different bike with different criteria for a different market and different uses ???

For the "Current Jam" ...

Change :

Even if it has integrated battery.

Two suggestions, a bit shorter chainst and carbon rear triangle.

Hit this Target :

18.5 kilos can be achieved with this frame

this frame with a fair price and a few improvements is going to be an option to consider for anybody

OR ... Rather than custom re-engineering every bike to fit The Eddy Criteria ... Maybe let everyone design different bikes as they are doing and just buy one which fits in your criteria anyway ???

Like : 500w, Shimano E8000, 17kg's .

E-Mountainbike highlights for 2018 seen at EUROBIKE Media Days | Page 11 of 14 | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[Eddy Current]

BUT ... Actually ... can you make a completely different bike with different criteria for a different market and different uses ???

For the "Current Jam" ...

Change :




Hit this Target :




OR ... Rather than custom re-engineering every bike to fit The Eddy Criteria ... Maybe let everyone design different bikes as they are doing and just buy one which fits in your criteria anyway ???

Like : 500w, Shimano E8000, 17kg's .

E-Mountainbike highlights for 2018 seen at EUROBIKE Media Days | Page 11 of 14 | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

That ebike is not FS

I don’t know, if I had to ask a brand to sell their frame to me this lightweight is the more interesting, despiste the long chainstays and all that stuff you know I don’t like.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That ebike is not FS

I don’t know, if I had to ask a brand to sell their frame to me this lightweight is the more interesting, despiste the long chainstays and all that stuff you know I don’t like.

Ah yes, but your suggestions are all about making compromises .. getting rid of the silly springy bit at the back is another one .. but it makes it lighter. Anyway, if you want it FS, 10 minutes with an angle grinder, some heavy duty zip ties and some old inner tubes and viola, you're there and it's only 200g heavier.

 

[SCemtb]

Open words to focus bikes - Bring then back to USA through select limited distribution. Don’t spend a ton on advertising or even brand outreach just let the few select dealers crush it on your bikes. I’d say no dealers less nautical miles apart.

 

[Spreaders]

Purchased my E8000 Jam² C + early this year and very happy with it. I do however feel that it's missing a bit of a trick as it doesn't have the torque or range of other bikes and whilst a reasonable weight not exactly light.

I have perspective on this as got my bike and wife's Thron² for less than either one of the two carbon levo sl's my Buddy splashed out on. It would be great to hear what can be done with a great base bike within a sensible budget.

+ Tyres ditched and set up tubeless already, I have some hunt trail wide rims purchased for another bike unused that can go on. Same story leaves me a set of slx 4 pots that I could change out for the magura MT4/5 (but don't expect this to save much weight). Wondering where else I can save weight without silly £ per g ratio. Is it possible to get this bike down to around 19kg without spending a fortune?

Seems to me best chance of a decent weight saving and bang for buck will be to wait till some clever soul works out how to get hold of an EP8 and swap it out for the E8000 but happy to hear of any sensible budget current solutions.

Cheers all and happy riding. P.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Purchased my E8000 Jam² C + early this year and very happy with it. I do however feel that it's missing a bit of a trick as it doesn't have the torque or range of other bikes and whilst a reasonable weight not exactly light.

I have perspective on this as got my bike and wife's Thron² for less than either one of the two carbon levo sl's my Buddy splashed out on. It would be great to hear what can be done with a great base bike within a sensible budget.

+ Tyres ditched and set up tubeless already, I have some hunt trail wide rims purchased for another bike unused that can go on. Same story leaves me a set of slx 4 pots that I could change out for the magura MT4/5 (but don't expect this to save much weight). Wondering where else I can save weight without silly £ per g ratio. Is it possible to get this bike down to around 19kg without spending a fortune?

Seems to me best chance of a decent weight saving and bang for buck will be to wait till some clever soul works out how to get hold of an EP8 and swap it out for the E8000 but happy to hear of any sensible budget current solutions.

Cheers all and happy riding. P.

I have the 2018 Jam2 Carbon bike. I've actually turned the levels down to medium and find that the motor produces more than adequate torque, in fact too much in boost mode. A more controllable torque would be my wish and that is what you get with the EP8 motor. But you also get that annoying rattling sound the motor makes...can't win. While the 378 wH battery can be limiting the approach works if you use the motor like it's an SL and rely more on your own pedal power to stay fit. But I do understand that rides over 25 miles can be challenging and that's where the TEC pack comes in or a DIY lighter range extender (250 wH) like I've added. But it will go the other direction with additional weight, almost 3 lbs for my 250 wH pack.

So what can you do to lighten the carbon framed Jam2 further? CF bars (100-125g), lighter saddle (100g), tubeless( net is only 100g or so per wheel because the stock tubes are ultra thin and light) and you add weight back in with a better tire than the Rekon, lighter pedals (if you use flats try the Xpedeo magnesium, 100-125g savings). So what's left to change? If you have the Novatec wheels, you can save up to 300g on the back wheel because of the that heavy steel cassette driver. But the steel driver works and doesn't gouge up like an aluminum one. Maybe a high end DT Swiss is lighter and stronger. I went with CF wheel rims since a set of "mullets" was given to me. Overall savings was 300g but the 29" on the front was a wash, no real savings. If you go from 2 piston brakes to 4 piston and upsize the back rotor from 180mm to 203mm then you're going to add some weight but increase performance. Brakes might add as much as 100-150g. Oh if you go to a rear shock with a reservoir you'll add another 100g. If you upgrade the very light 34mm Rhythm fork to a higher end FOX with Fit4 or Grip2 damper you'll add another 100-200g. I stuck with the std Fox setup because it works and just tweaked the spacers a bit. It's all a trade off and my bike with Maxxis Minion 2.6" tires and all these changes is still right at 45 lbs. I'm not sure how you can get much lower weight without compromising life and performance. I did a frame swap (warrantee replacement for cracking decals) and I was very surprised at how light the frame was. I can't remember but I think it was around 6-7 lbs total, should have recorded that!

The PS8 motor is said to be 300g lighter which is great and the only downside is that rattling noise. I know there are some sub 20kg bikes out there like Orbea and the SL. I think they're doing that mostly with small batteries and motors and maybe very light wheels with very light tires standard. There are just not too many areas to lighten up the bike beyond 20-21 kg unless you use smaller motors and batteries or very expensive more flimsy wheelsets. For me keeping the weight around 45 lbs or less helps with loading the bike or when you have to push it. And it is far lighter than many of the Bosch bikes I see coming out that weigh 55 lbs! Even with the DIY tec pack giving me 625wH the bike weighs around 48 lbs. I just don't know how you get an ultra light bike without spending a ton of money or just buying a new bike.