Newbie. But which bike

[pallie]

Hello everybody. I'm new over here. I'm still riding a ebike. The Klever X speed.
But now i want a EMTB. There are 2 bikes i'm interested in.
Speciailized levo base model or the Canyon Spectral or Neuron.
Someone tested or ride them both? What are the difference in riding them.
I'm a beginner and i don't want to ride like a crazy monkey in the woods.

 

[minty15389]

levo base model has no droppper and pretty base components, have you considered giant E+pro iv just got the +1 you get much more for your money for roughly the same price and i have to say what a bike it is!!

 

[outerlimits]

You will love the Levo, and own it for years.
So tuneable with the BLEvo app.

 

[R120]

First of all those are 3 very different bikes, when choosing an EMTB, you should use the same criteria as choosing a normal MTB, and chose the best bike for the riding you want to do, and that fits you. The motor is secondary to these points.

Of the bikes you have listed, the Neuron ON, is a pure trail bike, it has less travel and 29 inch wheels - if you are doing general trail riding, with some jumps and drops thrown in but no really aggressive riding, then this is a great bike. It can be ridden hard and fast, and you can charge on it, it just won't handle bigger drops and DH style tracks as well.

The Levo and Spectral and more aggressive bikes, and more capable on serious terrain. If you are not going to be riding aggressively, then I would suggest you are going to be spending a lot of extra money by going for these bikes as you don't need the level of extra ability they offer, and in the case of the specialised you will have to spend a lot of money to get a model that is specced the same as the equivalent canyons.

 

[outerlimits]

First of all those are 3 very different bikes, when choosing an EMTB, you should use the same criteria as choosing a normal MTB, and chose the best bike for the riding you want to do, and that fits you. The motor is secondary to these points.

Of the bikes you have listed, the Neuron ON, is a pure trail bike, it has less travel and 29 inch wheels - if you are doing general trail riding, with some jumps and drops thrown in but no really aggressive riding, then this is a great bike. It can be ridden hard and fast, and you can charge on it, it just won't handle bigger drops and DH style tracks as well.

The Levo and Spectral and more aggressive bikes, and more capable on serious terrain. If you are not going to be riding aggressively, then I would suggest you are going to be spending a lot of extra money by going for these bikes as you don't need the level of extra ability they offer, and in the case of the specialised you will have to spend a lot of money to get a model that is specced the same as the equivalent canyons.

I disagree slightly
Get the frame and motor that suits you best. Everything else can be changed.
No use getting a great bike if the motor drives you insane. The motor should not be secondary and nor should the frame. They are a package deal.

 

[Kernow]

Sounds like a hardtail may be a better bet , lots cheaper than full suss if you don’t need it .

I can’t agree with the update the cheap bike later method unless you have endless budget , get an interest free deal if money is tight .

 

[Gary]

I disagree slightly
Get the frame and motor that suits you best. Everything else can be changed.
No use getting a great bike if the motor drives you insane. The motor should not be secondary and nor should the frame. They are a package deal.

really confused by this
you own a Spesh, yeah? Which will have a Brose motor
The Canyon's both have Shimano motors.
I honestly can't see what about either motor could concievably drive you (or anyone else) insane.

Personally I reckon the Neuron frame offers 95% of the performance of a 2019 Alu Levo frame
Full build wise the Neuron blows the Levo out the water on spec/VFM

as a beginner a £3k Neuron is going to be way capable enough for everything you're likely to be doing. Performance wise the more expensive Neurons only really benefit from Fox suspension. In reality the rest of the componentry upgrades will function no better than the parts on the base level bike.

 

[pallie]

Thanks everybody. One more question. What about riding on a regular road. I mean i have to ride to the trail or woods where i ride. Is there some difference? I have to ride about 10 kilometers before i'm on the trail.

Really like the forum. Rob thanks?

 

[R120]

I disagree slightly
Get the frame and motor that suits you best. Everything else can be changed.
No use getting a great bike if the motor drives you insane. The motor should not be secondary and nor should the frame. They are a package deal.

So if you want a Brose motor with access to Blevo you get a Levo, even if the bike isn't right for you?

Sorry but I disagree with this, the reality is the motors are much of a muchness, I have ridden most of them, and been out on group rides with people on many different motored bikes, and I have never had anyone being held back or left behind due to the motor, but have had people being held-back by being on the wrong bike for them.

We going into minutiae on the pros and cons of the various motors on here, because that's what people do on Internet forums, but there is no duff motor out there if choosing between a Brose, Shimano, Yamaha, or Bosch system right now, they all do the job. There as as many people out there who think the Bosch system is the best, as there are those who go for Shimano or Brose.

On the other hand small changes in frame geometry can have major effects on your enjoyment of a bike for any given discipline, and you can have the worlds best motor, but if the frame geo and sizing doesn't work for you then you are left with a bike that is a PITA.

What is critical is that the motor integration into the geometry of the frame is well thought out, rather than just lobing a motor into an existing frameset.

 

[pallie]

First of all those are 3 very different bikes, when choosing an EMTB, you should use the same criteria as choosing a normal MTB, and chose the best bike for the riding you want to do, and that fits you. The motor is secondary to these points.

Of the bikes you have listed, the Neuron ON, is a pure trail bike, it has less travel and 29 inch wheels - if you are doing general trail riding, with some jumps and drops thrown in but no really aggressive riding, then this is a great bike. It can be ridden hard and fast, and you can charge on it, it just won't handle bigger drops and DH style tracks as well.

The Levo and Spectral and more aggressive bikes, and more capable on serious terrain. If you are not going to be riding aggressively, then I would suggest you are going to be spending a lot of extra money by going for these bikes as you don't need the level of extra ability they offer, and in the case of the specialised you will have to spend a lot of money to get a model that is specced the same as the equivalent canyons.

What do you mean the neuron has less travel. The neuron 6.0 is right now my favourite.

 

[R120]

Thanks everybody. One more question. What about riding on a regular road. I mean i have to ride to the trail or woods where i ride. Is there some difference? I have to ride about 10 kilometers before i'm on the trail.

Really like the forum. Rob thanks?

a 29'r wheeled bike is probably going to be better on the road than a plus size tyres bike. Depending on where you are in the world, the motors assistance either cuts out at 16mph or 20mph (USA).

What do you mean the neuron has less travel. The neuron 6.0 is right now my favourite.

The travel of the suspension is 130mm on the Neuron, whereas on the Spectral and the Levo it is 150/160mm depending on model

 

[pallie]

a 29'r wheeled bike is probably going to be better on the road than a plus size tyres bike. Depending on where you are in the world, the motors assistance either cuts out at 16mph or 20mph (USA).


The travel of the suspension is 130mm on the Neuron, whereas on the Spectral and the Levo it is 150/160mm depending on model

Okay got it, thanks for your quick reply

 

[MattyB]

I agree with @R120 overall, but I would still recommend you ride bikes with all the different motors first to see if there are any powertrains you definitely don’t like. The key one to try is the Bosch, as it is a bit marmite - it has some drag over the assistance limit which riders either hate or randomly cannot feel! Also the Yamaha in the Giant’s and some Haibikes has no adaptive assistance mode, so if that is a bike on your shortlist you need to try one of those to to check you are fine with that.

After the test rides are done and you know which motors you do and don’t like, you can narrow down the field and choose your bike on less variables - geometry, components, availability, support, price, looks etc. Hopefully this will make choosing slightly easier. Remember though that if you haven’t ridden many/any ebikes then the first one you ride is likely to feel amazing anyway, so don’t let that influence you to make a snap decision you may regret later.

 

[outerlimits]

So if you want a Brose motor with access to Blevo you get a Levo, even if the bike isn't right for you?

Sorry but I disagree

Disagree, but did you actually read what I wrote ?
I said the frame and motor are a package. No use having a great bike if it is let down by the motor. As the motor can not be changed without changing the frame.

All the different brands of motors have their own traits. You may like every motor that you ride, or you may hate say the Brose motor and how it behaves, because of either the motor or the software that drives it. The frame geo and sizing may be awesome, and the build spec. But no use if the motor drives you nuts.

 

[outerlimits]

really confused by this
you own a Spesh, yeah? Which will have a Brose motor
The Canyon's both have Shimano motors.
I honestly can't see what about either motor could concievably drive you (or anyone else) insane.

Yeah Gary, I own a Spesh
Example: I rode a Merida and I liked it a lot, with great spec for the coin. I however did not like how the motor behaved ( personal opinion) I know others love them.
So that bike would of driven me insane. I liked the Spesh, and geo was spot on for me too, and I liked the motor. The build spec was not up to par with the Merida, with the forks being the main thing, but that’s easy to change. I paid a little bit more and got the Spesh anyways. At the end of the day, I change out the forks, and have a complete bike I love. Cost way more yes, but if I got the Merida, i’d never have a bike I could completely love. (Personal opinion again) and I test ride other bikes too but the Spesh suited me best.

At the end of the day, test ride as many as you can, or the small bunch you have pinned down. The motor and frame are a package, and the base of the bike. And you have to be happy with that as a package.

 

[Gary]

I however did not like how the motor behaved ( personal opinion) I know others love them.

I'm absolutely fine with personal opinion (you may have noticed I have many very strong ones myself) But you also must realise. Me being me. you're going to have to go into some detail explaining what it was exactly about the Shimano motor you didn't get on with before I'm going to understand your point of view.

 

[R120]

Disagree, but did you actually read what I wrote ?
I said the frame and motor are a package. No use having a great bike if it is let down by the motor. As the motor can not be changed without changing the frame.

All the different brands of motors have their own traits. You may like every motor that you ride, or you may hate say the Brose motor and how it behaves, because of either the motor or the software that drives it. The frame geo and sizing may be awesome, and the build spec. But no use if the motor drives you nuts.

Yeah sorry I didn't mean that to be a total disagreement, I just think its way to easy to get bogged down in motor choice, when the reality is most of them can be set up to perform how you want when under your ownership.

 

[thetbg]

Thanks everybody. One more question. What about riding on a regular road. I mean i have to ride to the trail or woods where i ride. Is there some difference? I have to ride about 10 kilometers before i'm on the trail.

Really like the forum. Rob thanks?

For my Levo I bought a used set of 29 wheels and switched out the tires for a more appropriate road friendly tire, best of both worlds, takes 5 minutes to switch the wheels.

 

[outerlimits]

@Gary @R120
I’m not in total disagreement with either of you. Every aspect of the bike is important. Unfortunately sometimes one has to make compromises to fit within budget restraints.
Get the best bike you can that suits and fits within your budget.
Merry Christmas ?

 

[Gary]

Unfortunately sometimes one has to make compromises to fit within budget restraints.

Eh? We both ride cheaper (arguably better) bikes than your Spesh. and Shimano equipped bikes tend to be cheaper than Brose across the board.
I'd honestly like to hear what it was about the behaviour of the Shimano motor on the Merida that was so bad it made you go "insane"

Dependent on when you rode the Merida (and which firmware version the demo bike was runing) something to possibly take into consideration is the massive difference in motor assist control/smoothness the Shimano updates to the E8000 firmware have made. Riding my E8000 was night and day after the first firmware update I did (Firmware 4.4.2 IIRC released in March 2018) and I think it may even have gradually got even smoother with subsequent updates since. But even when new and running old firmware there was nothing that'd send me to the loony bin. happy pills maybe. but that'd just be to enhance my experience

and yes. Merry Christmas /\

 

[Tamas]

I'd honestly like to hear what it was about the behaviour of the Shimano motor on the Merida that was so bad it made you go "insane"

I'm also interested to find out...

 

[Tamas]

One more thing to consider is the battery. While the Levo looks awesome with the integrated battery it can be a PITA if you have to remove it for charging or if you want to carry a spare on long rides. The external Shimano on the Neuron and Spectral is small and light(ish) @2,6kg.
Personally, I would get the Neuron or Spectral - whichever suits the riding needs - over the Levo no question... and go for a nice biking holiday (or two) from the price difference.

 

[Gary]

An internal battery also adds weight. All internal battery frames do over external mounting. For all the song and dance about the fantastic weight savings the 2019 Levo range brought the actual frames are now just about competitive with many lighter Shimano equipped offerings.

 

[Doomanic]

Speshulized; the Donald Trump of the eMTB world...

 

[MattyB]

Yep, I have to agree - for me the disadvantages of the Levos battery integration (long battery so difficult to carry a spare, raises CG, connectors in a poor position for maintenance, difficult to dismount from the bike especially mid ride in poor conditions) are too big to ignore for the sake of looks. I would take the simpler, lighter, cheaper external mount of the Shimano system any day. YMMV.

 

[pallie]

Thank you guys for all the info. I really like the Canyon neuron, by looks and specs. I already demo a specialized levo. It was the hardtail. Good bike but nothing special. Specialized LBS is just around the corner. So i haven't decide yet. Levo is 4599 euro and Canyon 3799 euro.

 

[outerlimits]

Thank you guys for all the info. I really like the Canyon neuron, by looks and specs. I already demo a specialized levo. It was the hardtail. Good bike but nothing special. Specialized LBS is just around the corner. So i haven't decide yet. Levo is 4599 euro and Canyon 3799 euro.

Go with whatever you feel best suits you.
After sales support, service, and warranty are things also worth considering.

I chose the Levo, because the others felt like grabbing a handful of brakes when the 25km limit cut the power. It may just be me, but I don’t feel this on the Levo.
The Canyon may suit you better, and will be better spec’d and cheaper. At the end of the day, you have to be happy with your purchase.

 

[Gary]

I chose the Levo, because the others felt like grabbing a handful of brakes when the 25km limit cut the power.

*sigh*
finally
As with the Levo's Brose motor the Shimano motor de-couples above the asistance limit or when the motor is in "off" mode or when the system is out of battery.
As I said earlier, running old firmware this transition was quite abrupt. with newer firmware the transition from assisted to decoupled is far far smoother.
There's no real noticeable drag from the cranks when above the assistance limit or indeed while switched off. (I ride mine switched off rather a lot). If you don't believe me remove the chain from the chainring on any shimano steps motor and pedal the cranks round. The tiny amount of bearing drag in the system is impercievable whilst pedalling. infact if you turn the crank by your pinkie finger it is barely percievable too. You'd be able to notice it if you were to spin the cranks freely letting them spin until they stop where compared to a standard HTII BB they'll stop spinning after a lot less revolutions
What you felt on your demo ride was more than likely a combination of tyre drag and if the demo bike was running early firmware the less than smooth transition from assist to decoupled. It's an easy mistake to make and many people do..
During your demo what tyres (make, model, compound and casing) did the Merida have fitted?
If it was the eONE-SIXTY weren't they spec'd with massively draggy 2.8 Maxxis DHR II 3Cs I'm not surprised the bike felt like pedalling in treacle when you pedalled them past the limit on anything other than a decent downwards gradient with those fitted and were suddenly left with no assistance.

 

[outerlimits]

*sigh*
finally
If it was the eONE-SIXTY weren't they spec'd with massively draggy 2.8 Maxxis DHR II 3Cs I'm not surprised the bike felt like pedalling in treacle when you pedalled them past the limit on anything other than a decent downwards gradient with those fitted and were suddenly left with no assistance.

Haha, hadto make you sweat a bit first.

Interesting with the firmware update, probs where the difference was felt. I got the 2.8 Butchers on the Levo, then changed out to the DHF DHR combo, also Dhf Dhf & Dhf Butcher combos all in 2.8. Yeah draggy af, but not noticeable on the Levo over 25kmh even being 3C.
I’ve just fitted a pair of Spesh Eliminators in 2.6. grid up front and Black Dimond rear. The BD case rear should not explode like my EXO Maxxis. Taking it for its first spin in an hr or two. Should roll fairly fast, I hope.
Should grip and roll better on a the wall Yeeew !!!

 

[outerlimits]

New tyres work well for our sand over hardpack, roll nice and grip the timber. Do feel like not as much cushioning, but I like. ?