New users to Shimano ?

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

Hi,

Just picked up my Yeti 160E and got her on charge but wondering how do you see the level of charge with the steps display. Charger has an orange light on but nothing on the display to indicate the current charge level etc. Coming from a Turbo Levo and also a Cube so Brose and Bosch and used to seeing the charging levels on the screen. Am I missing something?

TIA

 

[conman]

I think you have to unplug from the charger then switch it on and see what you've got.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I think you have to unplug from the charger then switch it on and see what you've got.

Hi, Yes looks that way just seems a bit antiquated

 

[jimbob]

I think you have to unplug from the charger then switch it on and see what you've got.

This, unfortunately. You do get used to how long it takes to charge after a while. Worth noting that the orange led stays on for about an hour after the bike is charged. The bike display turns off once done though, so can use that to tell.

 

[steve_sordy]

........................ Worth noting that the orange led stays on for about an hour after the bike is charged. The bike display turns off once done though, so can use that to tell.

I'm no expert, at all! But I am sure I read somewhere that the extra hour is to ensure the cells are balanced. That balancing step sounds like it might be essential for the long-term health of the battery. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[jimbob]

I'm no expert, at all! But I am sure I read somewhere that the extra hour is to ensure the cells are balanced. That balancing step sounds like it might be essential for the long-term health of the battery. Does anyone know for sure?

Yes, sorry, you're quite correct. I rushed the reply a little. What I meant was if you needed the bike quickly and wanted a full charge you can go by the screen turning off rather than the LED on the charger. The battery should be left for the full duration every few charges though as you say for cell balancing.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

Yes, sorry, you're quite correct. I rushed the reply a little. What I meant was if you needed the bike quickly and wanted a full charge you can go by the screen turning off rather than the LED on the charger. The battery should be left for the full duration every few charges though as you say for cell balancing.

doesn't the screen go off after a few seconds anyway, I think mine does?

 

[steve_sordy]

doesn't the screen go off after a few seconds anyway, I think mine does?

I don't even turn on my screen when charging, I go by when the red light on the charger goes out.

 

[eMullet]

I'm no expert, at all! But I am sure I read somewhere that the extra hour is to ensure the cells are balanced. That balancing step sounds like it might be essential for the long-term health of the battery. Does anyone know for sure?

In my case once to battery led is solid green, the charger doesn't draw any power from the socket so no balancing at this point.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I asked in part as the advice always used to be keep the charge between 20-80%, so is the advice with Shimano to always charge and hold at 100%?

 

[Richwall]

If you charge the battery off the bike the led on the battery blinks showing how many bars are full, handy if you want 3 bars only for a power hour.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

If you charge the battery off the bike the led on the battery blinks showing how many bars are full, handy if you want 3 bars only for a power hour.

Cheers I will get the adapter

 

[steve_sordy]

I asked in part as the advice always used to be keep the charge between 20-80%, so is the advice with Shimano to always charge and hold at 100%?

For storage, best to keep between 50%-80%, but 100% for a few days will do no harm. If I get home with less than 50% (if?) I give it one hour of charge and that takes it to 70%-80% which is enough for however long I intend to leave it. The night before a ride I charge it fully. If I have emptied the battery, I give it two hours. (I have a 630Whr battery).

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

For storage, best to keep between 50%-80%, but 100% for a few days will do no harm. If I get home with less than 50% (if?) I give it one hour of charge and that takes it to 70%-80% which is enough for however long I intend to leave it. The night before a ride I charge it fully. If I have emptied the battery, I give it two hours. (I have a 630Whr battery).

Great advice Steve, I have the 630Whr battery too, just ordered the off bike charging adapter and already bought the 8004 charger to replace the slow one that comes with the bike.

 

[CJaMTB]

I never know what to think about what, I'm sure, is very well meaning advice, such as in this thread. Whenever I have spoken to people in the ebike business (which granted, isn't hugely frequently), I'm told to follow the advice in the owner's manuals. I do this, religiously, and have never had an issue with battery health, on any bike I have owned (Shimano, Bosch, or Brose (Specialized)). Even on batteries that others have reported issues with, I have had none (and hope I haven't now jinxed it!). Do the origins of this partial charging advice come from the manufacturers or, if not, why do the originators of this advice think they know better than the people who build the bikes and the systems fitted to them? I'm just curious as to why people think they need to ignore the manufacturers advice and do what someone on a forum says? Not trying to insult anyone, as I am someone on a forum(!), just genuinely trying to understand where this advice comes from. I teach bike mechanics and we urge a lot of caution for new mechanics, when searching out advice on the internet.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I never know what to think about what, I'm sure, is very well meaning advice, such as in this thread. Whenever I have spoken to people in the ebike business (which granted, isn't hugely frequently), I'm told to follow the advice in the owner's manuals. I do this, religiously, and have never had an issue with battery health, on any bike I have owned (Shimano, Bosch, or Brose (Specialized)). Even on batteries that others have reported issues with, I have had none (and hope I haven't now jinxed it!). Do the origins of this partial charging advice come from the manufacturers or, if not, why do the originators of this advice think they know better than the people who build the bikes and the systems fitted to them? I'm just curious as to why people think they need to ignore the manufacturers advice and do what someone on a forum says? Not trying to insult anyone, as I am someone on a forum(!), just genuinely trying to understand where this advice comes from. I teach bike mechanics and we urge a lot of caution for new mechanics, when searching out advice on the internet.

Well the Specialized manual advised to keep the battery between 20-80% charge when the bike was not in use and not hold at lower or higher rates for any substantial period of time. must admit I have never had battery or motor issues as so many seem to have on the forum.

 

[steve_sordy]

Great advice Steve, I have the 630Whr battery too, just ordered the off bike charging adapter and already bought the 8004 charger to replace the slow one that comes with the bike.

I already have that charger. This is what Shimano say about it.

Model: EC-E8004-1
SHIMANO STEPS - Battery Charger - Plug Type C for Europe

For charging your SHIMANO STEPS battery without removing it from your e-bike, the EC-E8004-1 charger provides fast charge times and a small connector. It can also charge the battery directly with the use of an adapter.

Lightweight and portable battery charger
Same compact size and weight as EC-E6002
Rapid charging

Quick charge from half to 80% in 1 hour​

Charge from empty to 80% in 2.5 hours​

Go from empty to fully charged in 4.5 hours​

Input 100-240V, 1.9 – 0.9A
Output 42V, 4.4 – 6.0A

 

[CJaMTB]

Well the Specialized manual advised to keep the battery between 20-80% charge when the bike was not in use and not hold at lower or higher rates for any substantial period of time. must admit I have never had battery or motor issues as so many seem to have on the forum.

The Specialized SL manual says to regularly charge the battery to a minimum of 60% (94% for the range extender), but for extended periods of storage it should be charged to at least 30-39% (33-94% for the range extender). It says nothing about not keeping it fully charged.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

The Specialized SL manual says to regularly charge the battery to a minimum of 60% (94% for the range extender), but for extended periods of storage it should be charged to at least 30-39% (33-94% for the range extender). It says nothing about not keeping it fully charged.

ok whatever you win. I might have been thinking of the battery advice for my Tesla.

 

[CJaMTB]

It's not about winning, I'm just trying to find out where this advice is coming from? As I said above, just using Spesh as an example, there is nothing in the manufacturer's tech bumpf that says you shouldn't fully charge the battery, but there are clearly a lot of people who believe otherwise and I just want to know if they genuinely know something I don't, or if it's one of those cases that there's no evidence for. If you have a normal Levo or Kenevo, it may be that the advice in their manual is different to in my SL manual.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

It's not about winning, I'm just trying to find out where this advice is coming from? As I said above, just using Spesh as an example, there is nothing in the manufacturer's tech bumpf that says you shouldn't fully charge the battery, but there are clearly a lot of people who believe otherwise and I just want to know if they genuinely know something I don't, or if it's one of those cases that there's no evidence for. If you have a normal Levo or Kenevo, it may be that the advice in their manual is different to in my SL manual.

I have the TL from 2019 and the wife has a 2019 Bosche haven't checked the manuals but pretty sure the advice on charging came from there. It does change though as the battery tech moves on so who knows

 

[CJaMTB]

Yeah, I checked the Shimano dealer and user bumpf yesterday and it's very different to the Spesh. No wonder there's so much confusion!

 

[jimbob]

Yeah, I checked the Shimano dealer and user bumpf yesterday and it's very different to the Spesh. No wonder there's so much confusion!

Quite!

The manual which comes with the shimano battery says to store between 60% and 80% for extended periods (whatever that means in reality...). I tend to keep the spare at that level and the main one I just fully charge.

With regards to where the info is coming from to only partially charge, it is well documented that there is a significant increase in battery degradation the further you increase the charge and discharge level. So if, for example, you only ever charge to 80% and discharge to 20%, your battery should last a lot longer. As our bike batteries are also Li-ion, this will apply to us too.

The manufacturer will provide varying advice depending on what they want as an outcome. They will have a lot more factors to consider than just maximising the cycle count of your battery. For example, most people may never ride enough to worry about it, a higher range figure is better for marketing, they don't want to make their product seem a hassle in comparison to a competitor etc.

Still, for me, whilst I'm interested in it all (I'm an engineer so can't help myself!) I don't see it being worth the hassle of attempting to only partially charge the battery if I don't need the whole charge.

 

[CJaMTB]

Okay, good to know, thank you. So, let me pose you a question: I ride to work, which leaves me with not quite enough charge to get home again, so should I just top up with an hour or so of charging, so that I can get home again, or should I fully charge the battery before I set off home? From what you've just said, if I've understood correctly, it should be the first of those two options?

 

[jimbob]

You're correct, however is suggest that in reality the difference would be so small its not worth the effort, which is the approach I take. Except for the spare battery which can sit there for quite a few months before being used.

There are lots of other factors which degrade batteries, not least the age of them. I expect for most people this will be the most significant aspect, and what kills the batteries rather than number of cycles.