NEW Turbo Levo Comp Carbon

[Dago]

After test riding this, decided to upgrade, as the new chassis with the mullet set up, was really amazing. New sizing over my 2019 made the top tube stretch so much better, as well. However, as soon as I hit local trails, the same glaring fault shows up-Riding these bikes at full out trail speed, in many cases, can lead to real issues. Take a rolling section that can be jumped or accelerated through. The bike will cut out at the limited top speed fairly regularly, making it actually dangerous in some situations. So, in general, I have no idea how anyone can enjoy riding these bikes, unless they are derestricted. If they could not be derestricted, there would be no way to justify the cost, IMO. It's one thing to shuttle your self up and go straight downhill (even in some situations, have found this problematic as well with the restriction) but to ride fast in rolling terrain, is quite different. I have been riding motorcycles and MTB's for over 50 years, and this restricted "cut out" speed on EMTB's is quite possibly the most ridiculous regulation ever created. Even my son's S-WORKS Creo, with an SL motor, has a cut out of around 28MPH ! So, scream amongst yourselves, what is going on?? My new bike will be derestricted tomorrow, I don't care about the warranty, just want a rideable, real world, peddle assist bike.

 

[F4Flyer]

The 20 MPH cutoff is just fine for many of us. Our trails in Colorado don't really allow for faster speeds (so we never hit that cutoff) and when they do, the cutoff is irrelevant, since then they are wide open downhills where I can hit 25+ MPH without doing much but staying off the brakes. On the Creo (which I also have) I do wish the cutoff was higher. On fast downhills where there are constant ups too, it becomes harder to keep up with regular lighter road bikes when we are pedaling above cutoff over and over. I usually find to be a problem after really long climbs (my legs are more worn out after several thousand ft of climbing since I usually use Eco only) but it is evident. On those sections, my fastest times are on my regular road bike...a 16 lb BMC. It takes much less effort to maintain 30-40 MPH on a light bike when you have to pedal.

 

[JP-NZ]

I have always thought the the speed restriction stops motor assistance at the cutoff speed, are you saying it actually slows the bike down??

I would assume on a fast flowy downhill trail were you could easily reach 25-30mph (40-48kph) that the bike would accumulate speed like normal due to gravity?

 

[Dago]

I have always thought the the speed restriction stops motor assistance at the cutoff speed, are you saying it actually slows the bike down??

I would assume on a fast flowy downhill trail were you could easily reach 25-30mph (40-48kph) that the bike would accumulate speed like normal due
to gravity?

If gravity is the main component of speed, then yes, the weight of the bike can contribute to speed, perhaps added speed which, if hitting certain jumps, you may need to clear a gap, with the heavier bike in the air-gravity helps and can hinder with that. Jumping from analog downhill to EMTB reveals this quite readily. Using the EMTB to simply shuttle up so you can use gravity downhill is fine. The issue is with rolling single track with fast sections and turns, etc. There are trails everywhere where 20mph can be reached on analog bikes . So, if you are riding an EMTB that cuts out at 18mph, you encounter a major drag of a 50 pound bike. So you either try and hover at that cut off, which is a real pain, or you derestrict and keep on it, going higher speeds that are totally doable with analog as well as EMTB, without dead weight problem.

 

[Dago]

The 20 MPH cutoff is just fine for many of us. Our trails in Colorado don't really allow for faster speeds (so we never hit that cutoff) and when they do, the cutoff is irrelevant, since then they are wide open downhills where I can hit 25+ MPH without doing much but staying off the brakes. On the Creo (which I also have) I do wish the cutoff was higher. On fast downhills where there are constant ups too, it becomes harder to keep up with regular lighter road bikes when we are pedaling above cutoff over and over. I usually find to be a problem after really long climbs (my legs are more worn out after several thousand ft of climbing since I usually use Eco only) but it is evident. On those sections, my fastest times are on my regular road bike...a 16 lb BMC. It takes much less effort to maintain 30-40 MPH on a light bike when you have to pedal.

Downhills without gap or double jumps are fine. A heavier bike going downhill may help but as soon as that bike is in the air, boom, the weight is there, pulling it down. Jumping from analog to EMTB on a downhill with jumps this becomes quite obvious.

 

[JP-NZ]

There are trails everywhere where 20mph can be reached on analog bikes . So, if you are riding an EMTB that cuts out at 18mph, you encounter a major drag of a 50 pound bike. So you either try and hover at that cut off, which is a real pain, or you derestrict and keep on it, going higher speeds that are totally doable with analog as well as EMTB, without dead weight problem.

Or you just pedal harder particularly if your on flat trails. If you can pedal an analogue bike over 20mph on the same trails you can't tell me your slower on an ebike?? 20MPH/32Kmh limit here but I'm yet to ride my ebike (waiting) but speed restriction does worry me downhill (if thats actually a thing).

 

[Dago]

Or you just pedal harder particularly if your on flat trails. If you can pedal an analogue bike over 20mph on the same trails you can't tell me your slower on an ebike?? 20MPH/32Kmh limit here but I'm yet to ride my ebike (waiting) but speed restriction does worry me downhill (if thats actually a thing).

So, my son just got a new stumpy enduro. If you get this bike past 18moh, you just keep gearing up, there is no sudden dead weight. If you are on an EMTB, you will notice this right away. Where it gets sketchy is in whoop de foo sections where you can loft it. If, as happens often, you are peddling through these sections, the added dead weight creates an immediate issue, as it is an immediate drop in speed. Not so with the analog bike. De-restrict and problem solved, with the EMTB.
Another thing- So why get an EMTB anyway? Ask the euro riders about targeting heart rate. Unless you are purposefully doing training that requires intervals, spiking your heart rate on an analog bike will reveal itself as a problem, the older you get, especially. Have had to train for XC ski racing for years, and know this first hand with guys that develop A-fib. Not cool. The EMTB smooths out these spikes by cycling from Eco thru Turbo as needed.

 

[F4Flyer]

That is one of the things I like abut the e-bike...it helps me keep my heart rate lower. Last two days I was riding my regular MTB and on some steep climbs, it is hard to keep it under 170 BPM for this 53-year-old. I kept it under 180 at least. On the e-bike and Eco, I can keep it under 160. Trail 150 BPM. I ride the regular MTB for my fitness. This ebike has less weight so the cutoff isn't something I notice when I do surpass it. I'm not doing big gaps or jumps anyway. With a heavier ebike, I suspect it is more noticeable. Interesting to see how different riders notice diff things that some do not.

 

[F4Flyer]

So, my son just got a new stumpy enduro. If you get this bike past 18moh, you just keep gearing up, there is no sudden dead weight. If you are on an EMTB, you will notice this right away. Where it gets sketchy is in whoop de foo sections where you can loft it. If, as happens often, you are peddling through these sections, the added dead weight creates an immediate issue, as it is an immediate drop in speed. Not so with the analog bike. De-restrict and problem solved, with the EMTB.
Another thing- So why get an EMTB anyway? Ask the euro riders about targeting heart rate. Unless you are purposefully doing training that requires intervals, spiking your heart rate on an analog bike will reveal itself as a problem, the older you get, especially. Have had to train for XC ski racing for years, and know this first hand with guys that develop A-fib. Not cool. The EMTB smooths out these spikes by cycling from Eco thru Turbo as needed.

Good point about keeping the heart rate more level. I always forget that and do some high altitude climbs where I can head north of 180 BPM and have hit 200 at times. I need to stop that at my age and due to the fact that I have a 3-year-old.

 

[Tim1023]

A heavier bike going downhill may help but as soon as that bike is in the air, boom, the weight is there, pulling it down. Jumping from analog to EMTB on a downhill with jumps this becomes quite obvious.

Nope. Dat not physics.
I'm sure that the dynamics are different (for good and/or bad), but a heavier bike does not fall faster due to gravity as gravitational acceleration is the same for all objects at a given location (e.g. on the surface of the Earth). At the scales we're discussing here, differences in wind resistance in the vertical direction will likely be negligible. Therefore both bikes will descend vertically at the same speed.
Here's a nice video about feathers and steel balls falling at the same speed:

 

[Dago]

Nope. Dat not physics.
I'm sure that the dynamics are different (for good and/or bad), but a heavier bike does not fall faster due to gravity as gravitational acceleration is the same for all objects at a given location (e.g. on the surface of the Earth). At the scales we're discussing here, differences in wind resistance in the vertical direction will likely be negligible. Therefore both bikes will descend vertically at the same speed.
Here's a nice video about feathers and steel balls falling at the same speed:

It’s not about a physics study. If we ride an analog bike, same jump, we can lift and loft the bike much easier. The EMTB, simply not as easy. It’s the falling weight, it’s the actual maneuverable weight. The same condition that occurs at cut out on a rolling jump is there-simple mass. The real world physics tells us, as well as a scale, that we are on a 50 pound bike, not a 30 pound one.

 

[Tim1023]

It’s not about a physics study. If we ride an analog bike, same jump, we can lift and loft the bike much easier. The EMTB, simply not as easy. It’s the falling weight, it’s the actual maneuverable weight. The same condition that occurs at cut out on a rolling jump is there-simple mass. The real world physics tells us, as well as a scale, that we are on a 50 pound bike, not a 30 pound one.

Sorry, I was being a pedantic nerd!
There will certainly be a difference when trying to manoeuvre the thing around because of the mass. The suspension will also behave differently due to the weight. Lifting it would be especially affected. Anything where you are using your weight to change the position of the bike would be more difficult. Whipping would need much more effort. Plus probably a whole bunch of other things that I can't think of 'cos I can't jump.
However, once in the air, they accelerate downwards due to gravity at exactly the same speed.

 

[Goodmango13]

After test riding this, decided to upgrade, as the new chassis with the mullet set up, was really amazing. New sizing over my 2019 made the top tube stretch so much better, as well. However, as soon as I hit local trails, the same glaring fault shows up-Riding these bikes at full out trail speed, in many cases, can lead to real issues. Take a rolling section that can be jumped or accelerated through. The bike will cut out at the limited top speed fairly regularly, making it actually dangerous in some situations. So, in general, I have no idea how anyone can enjoy riding these bikes, unless they are derestricted. If they could not be derestricted, there would be no way to justify the cost, IMO. It's one thing to shuttle your self up and go straight downhill (even in some situations, have found this problematic as well with the restriction) but to ride fast in rolling terrain, is quite different. I have been riding motorcycles and MTB's for over 50 years, and this restricted "cut out" speed on EMTB's is quite possibly the most ridiculous regulation ever created. Even my son's S-WORKS Creo, with an SL motor, has a cut out of around 28MPH ! So, scream amongst yourselves, what is going on?? My new bike will be derestricted tomorrow, I don't care about the warranty, just want a rideable, real world, peddle assist bike.

Totally agree….
Who makes this stuff up and why…
Safer to not be “pulled back” at critical moments
Derestrict and don’t look back unless you want to see who’s behind you

 

[ChuckK]

Nope. Dat not physics.
I'm sure that the dynamics are different (for good and/or bad), but a heavier bike does not fall faster due to gravity as gravitational acceleration is the same for all objects at a given location (e.g. on the surface of the Earth). At the scales we're discussing here, differences in wind resistance in the vertical direction will likely be negligible. Therefore both bikes will descend vertically at the same speed.
Here's a nice video about feathers and steel balls falling at the same speed:

That video is in a vacuum, but as you say, the air friction resistance is small for a slowly falling bike and the air friction difference between a regular MTB and an e-bike (owing to their slightly different shapes) would be negligible. Both would fall with the same rate of acceleration and thus be dropping at the same speed when they hit the ground.

 

[Roundbadge]

After test riding this, decided to upgrade, as the new chassis with the mullet set up, was really amazing. New sizing over my 2019 made the top tube stretch so much better, as well. However, as soon as I hit local trails, the same glaring fault shows up-Riding these bikes at full out trail speed, in many cases, can lead to real issues. Take a rolling section that can be jumped or accelerated through. The bike will cut out at the limited top speed fairly regularly, making it actually dangerous in some situations. So, in general, I have no idea how anyone can enjoy riding these bikes, unless they are derestricted. If they could not be derestricted, there would be no way to justify the cost, IMO. It's one thing to shuttle your self up and go straight downhill (even in some situations, have found this problematic as well with the restriction) but to ride fast in rolling terrain, is quite different. I have been riding motorcycles and MTB's for over 50 years, and this restricted "cut out" speed on EMTB's is quite possibly the most ridiculous regulation ever created. Even my son's S-WORKS Creo, with an SL motor, has a cut out of around 28MPH ! So, scream amongst yourselves, what is going on?? My new bike will be derestricted tomorrow, I don't care about the warranty, just want a rideable, real world, peddle assist bike.

I had the same issue with my ‘22 Levo on faster flowy stuff.
Popped the Levociraptor dongle in there (takes about a minute)and can pedal as fast as I want