New Bosch 2022 Motor System (Bosch Smart System) Announced

[Planemo]

Correct but if you have 13 cells in series all charging at x number of Watts, then it’s only reasonable to assume 10 cells at X Watts is going to take longer to charge a pack to 720 Wh’s than the 13 cells.

Totally lost me there.

The only way you can charge faster is to use more current. The original post suggested that a higher voltage battery can be charged faster.

The current limit is based on what the cells themselves can take. How many cells you have in series (the voltage) is irrelevant in terms of the max current you are able to use.

You can't charge a higher voltage pack faster unless A: the cells are rated to take a higher charge current than the previous cells used or B: the charger manufacturer chooses to push the current output closer to the max cell rating (which many chargers don't). Either way, it's nothing to do with voltage.

 

[R120]

Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They where of the opinion that the updated Bosch ecosystem is very much geared towards the commuter/cargo bike market and was designed with that in mind first and foremost, but that since the brands that use the Bosch system are desperate for bigger batteries (in their opinion the battery capacity arms race is far more important to generating sales than lighter more minimal systems) they dont have much option but to sling it in the bikes.

They couldn't believe that Bosch wasn't working on something more minimalist in terms of controls though, as their market feedback is that the two most requested things are bigger batteries, and for EMTB's to look as much like a normal bike as possible, with minimal clutter.

Having said that we did have a bit of a laugh, as its really only a small percentage of geeks like us on Forums who get wound up about these things, and most people buying ebikes couldn't give a sh!t and Bosch probably realise this. They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.

 

[nobbyq]

Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They where of the opinion that the updated Bosch ecosystem is very much geared towards the commuter/cargo bike market and was designed with that in mind first and foremost, but that since the brands that use the Bosch system are desperate for bigger batteries (in their opinion the battery capacity arms race is far more important to generating sales than lighter more minimal systems) they dont have much option but to sling it in the bikes.

They couldn't believe that Bosch wasn't working on something more minimalist in terms of controls though, as their market feedback is that the two most requested things are bigger batteries, and for EMTB's to look as much like a normal bike as possible, with minimal clutter.

Having said that we did have a bit of a laugh, as its really only a small percentage of geeks like us on Forums who get wound up about these things, and most people buying ebikes couldn't give a sh!t and Bosch probably realise this. They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.

what were they testing ????????

 

[R120]

They weren't testing anything that I clocked, more out on a ride with some journo's.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Totally lost me there.

The only way you can charge faster is to use more current. The original post suggested that a higher voltage battery can be charged faster.

The current limit is based on what the cells themselves can take. How many cells you have in series (the voltage) is irrelevant in terms of the max current you are able to use.

You can't charge a higher voltage pack faster unless A: the cells are rated to take a higher charge current than the previous cells used or B: the charger manufacturer chooses to push the current output closer to the max cell rating (which many chargers don't). Either way, it's nothing to do with voltage.

I think you are missing the fact that 10 cells ( 36 volts ) in series all charged at 5 amps will have X Wh’s of stored energy. Charge 13 cells ( 48 volts ) at the same 5 amps and after 1.0 hour you will have 1.3 X Wh’s. To charge those 13 cells you will need to provide a 48 volt charger. If you charged a 13 Cell pack to 36 volts then I would agree after all its just X amount of energy being provided, but we don’t, we use 48 volts.

Have a play with the following calculator Convert Amp hour to Watt hour (Ah to Wh) and input using the examples of 36 volts and 48 volts both at 5 amps. At the end of the day us EBikers are only interested in stored Wh’s of energy, how the manufacturer gets those stored Wh‘s into forward propulsion is of little matter to most who will only be interested in that 2 bikes both charged by 4 amp chargers, the 48 volt bike will go further so will assume it has charged faster.

 

[PetrD]

4A on 36V is not 4A on 48V. The 4A charger for 48V needs more power and can produce more heat with equal effectivity as the 36V charger. But its not mind.

 

[Waynemarlow]

4A on 36V is not 4A on 48V. The 4A charger for 48V needs more power and can produce more heat with equal effectivity as the 36V charger. But its not mind.

It’s all a bit academic chaps, we all plug our bikes in and when the green light comes on, we ride. Whether it takes 3 hours or 4 is almost never a problem.

 

[cappuccino34]

Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.

It's not unlike 'performance' cars; everybody admits to enjoying a lighter car more, but then they go and buy some bloated, numb, ill-handling dogpile because it has a bigger number in the 'power output' box.

Audi RS# are prime examples.

 

[R120]

I think its horse for courses - to follow your analogy, I once had an RS4, about 15 years ago, and the reason I got it was I wanted a fast car, but also wanted to be able to nail it down to the alps with a full load of bikes/snowboards etc, and it was the best option at the time.

In an ideal world you would have a little ripper of a bike, and something for longer trips, but at current prices the luxury of owning 2 EMTB's isn't viable for most people.

 

[cappuccino34]

Does anybody know if production of the current spec stuff is going to end with this update?

So will any bike company selling Bosch powered bikes either have to stop production or change their bikes to suit the new battery dimensions if the current product is ending?

 

[Gianni]

Sorry, but no one feels the need to have a smaller handlebar control? The new KIOX is hugly, bulky and redundant in features. A huge disappointment for someone like me who loves a minimalist setup and little exposed to breakage in the event of a fall.

 

[R120]

This picture made me chuckle of the new 2022 Mondrakers cockpit - anyone see the hack I see ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

This picture made me chuckle of the new 2022 Mondrakers cockpit - anyone see the hack I see ?

View attachment 71525

The Shimano cable tidy ?

 

[R120]

Yup - nothing like having to dip into another motor manufacturers parts bin to tidy up your cabling

 

[flash]

I still don't understand why one of the big players hasn't made a wireless controller yet. Sram do it with AXS and it's super reliable and lasts two years. I'd love to get rid of that cable.

No Shimano rubber bands required....

Gordon

 

[cappuccino34]

E="Gianni, post: 335014, member: 12375"]
Sorry, but no one feels the need to have a smaller handlebar control? The new KIOX is hugly, bulky and redundant in features. A huge disappointment for someone like me who loves a minimalist setup and little exposed to breakage in the event of a fall.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. How are you expected to hit the buttons you want on rough terrain or with gloves on? Be like trying to use a Casio calculator watch. ?

 

[Waynemarlow]

I still don't understand why one of the big players hasn't made a wireless controller yet. Sram do it with AXS and it's super reliable and lasts two years. I'd love to get rid of that cable.

Bit of reading for you, the little privateers can do it

EBike / EScooter modular DIY OpenSource electronics and software

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Bosch mention that the 2022 CX is a new drive unit but with identical performance.

Interested to test and see if there’s less internal motor rattle. It’s noticeable going to the silent Levo to the current Rail with the Bosch motor rattling on chunky stuff.

 

[Zimmerframe]

They're finally expanding the Smart System :

The Bosch Smart System family is expanding – new hardware and software for the Bosch portfolio

Bosch presents its product innovations for 2023. New motors and battery options join the Smart System. We have all the info for you.

ebike-mtb.com

Now including the 500wh and 625wh batteries.

A new System controller (top tube) with buttons to change support mode :

and finally .. just for @Rob Rides EMTB a mini remote !!!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

They're finally expanding the Smart System :

The Bosch Smart System family is expanding – new hardware and software for the Bosch portfolio

Bosch presents its product innovations for 2023. New motors and battery options join the Smart System. We have all the info for you.

ebike-mtb.com

Now including the 500wh and 625wh batteries.

A new System controller (top tube) with buttons to change support mode :

View attachment 92815

and finally .. just for @Rob Rides EMTB a mini remote !!!

View attachment 92816

The dream!!

Unfortunately you can't install the mini remote on any of the current systems - it needs that top tube thingy, that contains all the electronics stuff that the mini remote connects too

 

[JFDI]

The dream!!

Unfortunately you can install the mini remote on any of the current systems - it needs that top tube thingy, that contains all the electronics stuff that the mini remote connects too

if only they could supply a 'top tube thingy' that could directly swap with the current kiox controller..?

 

[Rusty]

The Bosch Smart System family is expanding – new hardware and software for the Bosch portfolio

Bosch presents its product innovations for 2023. New motors and battery options join the Smart System. We have all the info for you.

ebike-mtb.com

View attachment 92816

That is the switch which should be with the current Kiox system.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

if only they could supply a 'top tube thingy' that could directly swap with the current kiox controller..?

Top Tube Thingy™ also requires a relevant hole in top tube to house it.

I heard a rumour Bosch will sell it as all as a self-install kit, including this handy tool:

 

[Doomanic]

No mask or eye protection? Fucking cheapskates!

 

[RustyMTB]

It has occured to dremel a nice hole in my top tube & glue the Kiox in there. I accept this could be problematic a few ways.

 

[cappuccino34]

I'm sure it would be easy to make a little housing for the thingy.

Maybe call it a 'Thousing'?

 

[Another One]

The dream!!

Unfortunately you can't install the mini remote on any of the current systems - it needs that top tube thingy, that contains all the electronics stuff that the mini remote connects too

I like what bikes will receive the new system any news on that yet and when.

 

[Gyre]

FFS! I suppose it shouldn't be surprising by now that they finally make a mini remote, and it's backwards compatible with absolutely nothing.

 

[R120]

Whoever heads up the design and integration department at Bosch needs sacking - every time they “improve” something it’s not backwards comparable with essentially the identical system save software.

how hard is it to make a controller you just plug in? Shimano have about 5 handlebar controllers you can choose from that are just plug and play!

still I would now consider a Bosch bike for the first time if it came with that controller.

 

[irie]

Whoever heads up the design and integration department at Bosch needs sacking - every time they “improve” something it’s not backwards comparable with essentially the identical system save software.

how hard is it to make a controller you just plug in? Shimano have about 5 handlebar controllers you can choose from that are just plug and play!

still I would now consider a Bosch bike for the first time if it came with that controller.

Couldn't agree more. I have Bosch Purion and alI I really want is a small display near the centre of my bars connected to the below remote. Have a Garmin Montana 600 with full 1:25K mapping - don't want the other stuff.

In fact, if the below remote could be connected/grafted onto the existing Purion display that would be fine.