My Medium Rise feels more nimble than my Large Heckler MX. I wonder if it’s the weight or geometry

[Underblu]

Both of these bikes are delightful rides. The Heckler is plush but more of a handful in tighter or more technical terrain whereas the Rise just feels a bit more nimble.

The reach for both bikes is nearly identical so I’m thinking perhaps the 20mm of extra wheelbase for the Heckler MX and the approximately 6 lbs of additional weight makes for a slightly less toss-able ride

 

[Gary]

Of course it does

 

[RustyIron]

That seems like a plausible explanation.

 

[apac]

Both of these bikes are delightful rides. The Heckler is plush but more of a handful in tighter or more technical terrain whereas the Rise just feels a bit more nimble.

The reach for both bikes is nearly identical so I’m thinking perhaps the 20mm of extra wheelbase for the Heckler MX and the approximately 6 lbs of additional weight makes for a slightly less toss-able ride

The difference to the feel and handling between a full fat levo and a Levo SL is night and day. There was a about 5kg difference between the two. A basic Alu levo, and a carbon expert SL. I made the SL even lighter than it's 18kg out of the box weight, but now its Back to what it started at as I needed fat bloke tyres,

 

[Redlemon]

In my case I was riding a 2021 Giant Reign Advanced Pro 2 XL, a regular MTB.

I just bought a 2022 Giant Reign E+2 XL and the geo combined with the mullet setup and a shorter reach makes it more playful and agile versus my old regular Reign....despite the 20LBS penalty. The bike is also a lot more plush with the added weight.

It's crazy how little adjustments can affect the ride quality.

 

[Underblu]

The difference to the feel and handling between a full fat levo and a Levo SL is night and day. There was a about 5kg difference between the two. A basic Alu levo, and a carbon expert SL. I made the SL even lighter than it's 18kg out of the box weight, but now its Back to what it started at as I needed fat bloke tyres,

So possibly the weight more than the geometry is the contributing factor. Although the difference for me is approximately 5lbs. (2kg). Makes sense as this additional weight is mostly concentrated in the down tube.

I thought the Medium Rise being a full 29ner would feel less nimble so I’m pleasantly surprised. I wouldn’t buy another “full fat” eMTB. Lightweight is the way to go. I still love my Heckler and it is more of a tweener at approximately 45lbs, but it still feels like an ebike whereas the Rise feels more like a stumpjumper. I may get some carbon wheels and see if I can shave off a pound or two from the Heckler.

Also the bars on the Rise I believe or 760 whereas on the Heckler they are 800 so maybe 760 is a sweet spot for me.

 

[Underblu]

In my case I was riding a 2021 Giant Reign Advanced Pro 2 XL, a regular MTB.

I just bought a 2022 Giant Reign E+2 XL and the geo combined with the mullet setup and a shorter reach makes it more playful and agile versus my old regular Reign....despite the 20LBS penalty. The bike is also a lot more plush with the added weight.

It's crazy how little adjustments can affect the ride quality.

The interesting, so despite the sizable weight penalty you feel your Reign E-2 is more playful. Is the wheelbase on the 2022 longer. it seems the trend is longer and slacker with short chain stays

 

[apac]

So possibly the weight more than the geometry is the contributing factor. Although the difference for me is approximately 5lbs. (2kg). Makes sense as this additional weight is mostly concentrated in the down tube.

I thought the Medium Rise being a full 29ner would feel less nimble so I’m pleasantly surprised. I wouldn’t buy another “full fat” eMTB. Lightweight is the way to go. I still love my Heckler and it is more of a tweener at approximately 45lbs, but it still feels like an ebike whereas the Rise feels more like a stumpjumper. I may get some carbon wheels and see if I can shave off a pound or two from the Heckler.

Also the bars on the Rise I believe or 760 whereas on the Heckler they are 800 so maybe 760 is a sweet spot for me.

800mm bars is far too wide.

 

[Gary]

Fo sho?

I run 780 on my Eeb. With grips they measure 790 and I overhang my palms/pinkies over the end of my grips.
Ie. If I rode with my hands centralised on the grips they'd have to be around 850 for the same hand placement.
Heavy Eebs benefit from slightly wider leverage.

 

[1oldfart]

Bikes are a bit like surfboards. Some prefer short others do not.
Yesterday i tried a small bike and i loved it.
The day before i tried the same model in medium and even if it was a good fit for my legs
i just had no interest for it.

 

[maynard]

My hardtail cube feels lighter than my levo . Yet it weighs more . WTF . Also my girlfriends corolla is so much easier to park than my nissan patrol. Yet I can't see shit in the corolla cos it's so low . And I'm scared of scratching it . Whereas when I park the patrol I enjoy smashing stuff . Ok now I'm just confused .

 

[Troy]

In my case I was riding a 2021 Giant Reign Advanced Pro 2 XL, a regular MTB.

I just bought a 2022 Giant Reign E+2 XL and the geo combined with the mullet setup and a shorter reach makes it more playful and agile versus my old regular Reign....despite the 20LBS penalty. The bike is also a lot more plush with the added weight.

It's crazy how little adjustments can affect the ride quality.

800mm bars is far too wide.

I like 800s for everything except tight gaps.

 

[Troy]

The interesting, so despite the sizable weight penalty you feel your Reign E-2 is more playful. Is the wheelbase on the 2022 longer. it seems the trend is longer and slacker with short chain stays

I found the same thing the other day, pleasantly surprising.

 

[Redlemon]

The interesting, so despite the sizable weight penalty you feel your Reign E-2 is more playful. Is the wheelbase on the 2022 longer. it seems the trend is longer and slacker with short chain stays

2021 Reign had pretty much the same wheelbase, the big difference is that the 2022 Reign E+2 has shorter chainstays, shorter reach & mullet setup.

I believe manufacturers went a little bit too far on some figures, especially the reach. Bikes are ultra stable, but they're also harder to maneuver or manual.

 

[Gary]

Not so long ago the longest wheelbase mtbs were DH race bikes.
But in order to remain agile in technical terrain they didn't have particularly long reach (or super long chainstays).
The wheelbase length was longer because of the slacker HA and longer (than trail/XC bikes) chainstays. All 3 of these atributes increased the stability. They were generally heavy and many also had low (sagged) BBs and lower overall COG which along with the extra travel available also increases stability.

Now that trail and Emtbs bikes are mimicking the stable HA's of DH bikes but still trying to achieve a more traditional XC bar to saddle measurement they have become LONGER than many WC DH Race bikes. add to that the stupidly steep seat angles du jour and you have a bike that is MOAR stable than a WC winning DH bike but miles less maneuverable.
Ask yourself this.
Does your trail riding REALLY require your bike to be more stable than the bikes of Greg Minnaar or Loic Bruni?

Personally I find it fairly laughable that mediocre middle aged trail riders are spending their money on anglesets to slacken out their trail and E bikes because they somehow believe 62.5deg is the holy grail for mincing about *Surrey woodland at the weekend. But it is what it is.

Having said that. Every single change affects a bike's handling to some degree. From to tyre pressure/compound/volume up to bar roll/sweep/rise, lever reach/adjustment and grip width and let's not forget suspension characteristics and personal set-up preference.


*TBF insert any UK county

 

[1oldfart]

Not so long ago the longest wheelbase mtbs were DH race bikes.
But in order to remain agile in technical terrain they didn't have particularly long reach (or super long chainstays).
The wheelbase length was longer because of the slacker HA and longer (than trail/XC bikes) chainstays. All 3 of these atributes increased the stability. They were generally heavy and many also had low (sagged) BBs and lower overall COG which along with the extra travel available also increases stability.

Now that trail and Emtbs bikes are mimicking the stable HA's of DH bikes but still trying to achieve a more traditional XC bar to saddle measurement they have become LONGER than many WC DH Race bikes. add to that the stupidly steep seat angles du jour and you have a bike that is MOAR stable than a WC winning DH bike but miles less maneuverable.
Ask yourself this.
Does your trail riding REALLY require your bike to be more stable than the bikes of Greg Minnaar or Loic Bruni?

Personally I find it fairly laughable that mediocre middle aged trail riders are spending their money on anglesets to slacken out their trail and E bikes because they somehow believe 62.5deg is the holy grail for mincing about *Surrey woodland at the weekend. But it is what it is.

Having said that. Every single change affects a bike's handling to some degree. From to tyre pressure/compound/volume up to bar roll/sweep/rise, lever reach/adjustment and grip width and let's not forget suspension characteristics and personal set-up preference.


*TBF insert any UK county

I totally agree. A bunch just buy what is sold with the mindset new = better.
I do not want a stable bike.
The new geo is not for me.
I prefer a 10S with 11-46 over a 11S with 11-42.
I do not buy some stickers.
I guess many are too busy to ride often so the small differences make no difference to them.
Some are getting rid of their 12S to go with 10S.
I also love my bar very narrow and my 20 years old seat post.
I prefer proven and reliable. No 5,000$US for me.