Motor Resistance, real or imagined?

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,404
9,986
Lincolnshire, UK
I broke my mech last ride out and today, while I had the mech and chain off, I spun the pedals and they moved very easily - taking a short while to slow down and stop. I decided to measure the motor resistance to pedalling and to measure it as precisely as I could without being silly about it.

Data: Motor Shimano EP8, age 3 years 8 months, 3436 miles covered, crank length 165mm Shimano Hollowtech, Vault pedals.

With the motor off and the crank and pedals horizontal, I loaded up the pedal with Allen keys until the crank moved. I recorded the weight and then tried different combinations of Allen keys to get the lightest weight that would overcome the static friction of the motor. Then I reversed the procedure to get the heaviest weight that would not move the crank. Take into account that it always takes more force to get something moving than to keep it moving. That is basic physics, not just my opinion. In other words, once pedalling, the motor resistance as measured at the crank will be less.

It took 43gm of weight to move the crank, but 40gm would not move it. What the actual lowest weight is that will move the crank is irrelevant. It's somewhere between 40 and 43 gms! That is pretty much non-existent. That is applied to one crank only, it would be half that if applied to both cranks, ie less than 23gms, there is more mud in your cleats than that!

For reference, three £1 coins weigh 26.3gm and one US dollar coin weighs 26.7gm.

For the record here are the pictures: 43gm = a 6, 4 & 3mm Allen key. 40gm = a 6, 4 & 2mm Allen key.

Motor resistance 1.jpg


Motor Resistance 3.jpg
Motor Resistance 2.jpg
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,404
9,986
Lincolnshire, UK
Important research Steve, we salute your efforts 🫡
Presumably you could calculate the torque required using those measurements, if you're having a quiet day?
Good question. Simples!

Torque is measured in Newton metres. ie force in Newtons x lever length in meters.

Force is "43grams weight" which in Newtons is 0.043kg x 9.81 m/sec2 = 0.422 Newtons
Lever arm in meters is 0.165m

Torque is 0.422 x 0.165 = 0.07 Nm, measured on one pedal.

Now is that negligible or what? :ROFLMAO:
 

Tooks

Well-known member
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2020
585
779
Lincs UK
I think the answer is that motor resistance is both real and imagined.

A quick calculation for the moment of force at the crank; M = F x d
  • moment (M) is measured in newton metres (Nm)
  • force (F) is measured in newtons (N)
  • perpendicular distance from pivot (d) is measured in metres (m)
(F) Total Force = 0.422 Newtons (43g)
(d) Crank Length = 0.165 metres
(M) Moment of Force = 0.07 Nm

Not a lot then.

I’ll check my SL1.1 motor (widely regarded as a very low resistance motor) next time I have the chain of, but my crank bearings might be past there best so not sure how comparable it would be.
 

Amber Valley Guy

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
243
259
Alfreton
Good question. Simples!

Torque is measured in Newton metres. ie force in Newtons x lever length in meters.

Force is "43grams weight" which in Newtons is 0.043kg x 9.81 m/sec2 = 0.422 Newtons
Lever arm in meters is 0.165m

Torque is 0.422 x 0.165 = 0.07 Nm, measured on one pedal.

Now is that negligible or what? :ROFLMAO:

Is that with a dry unlubricated motor? If not then your not taking into account the static stiction of the lubricants on the rotative internals. 🤣
 

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