Mission Control Mission Control App Requires Cell Data Signal

[Ridenfool]

Since day 1 of using the app it has been a toss up whether or not any given ride will be recorded.

I've tried a variety of techniques with Auto Start on and off (manual Ride start), turn on app before bike and vice versa, and on the Android device have tried different methods of keeping the MC app open in different modes, like on the Ride screen or some other screen, etc.

Throughout this, there has been no consistency with establishing a baseline regarding what causes the problem.

What's the problem? Well, roughly half the rides do not get recorded, drop out during a ride and prompt to Continue the Ride (which I won't see till done riding), and/or draw straight lines on the map (some going to points tens of miles away from the trail I'm on).

When this happens, there is no ride data, which is all I'm interested in.

After spending some time on the phone with a Support tech it was revealed to me how the app will only work if there is cell phone connectivity. I ride mostly in a place where signal is sketchy at best.

There is a perfectly functional GPS in the phone. The data from the rear wheel doesn't require a cell connection, so, it is simply software that was written poorly. It is unable to compensate for a situation where it can't talk to the mothership.

He went on to explain how the coders are located in Switzerland, and that communicating issues by riders in the USA to them is challenging at best. He also hinted at how there is no income stream from a free app it is likely, in his opinion, that they aren't prioritizing improvements to address problems like this.

So, on my high-dollar and state of the art Turbo Levo it is impossible to make use of these bells and whistles, simply because the software engineers have not considered the possibility that a mountain biker might venture outside the reach of cell signal in pursuit of their chosen pastime. I mean, really? People who live a region of the world known for it's mountains (Swiss Alps) are unable to fathom how this cell / data signal requirement might be a little over the top?

Maybe the support tech doesn't really know the answer, though it was made clear that this is something he is asked about often. Even so, his answer would explain why it is an intermittent problem that is hard to narrow down, as RF signal can vary due to a variety of environmental reasons.

I hope Specialized gives this the attention it deserves. There should be a backup plan for when cell signal is lost. It should continue to build the track based on GPS data and continue to record the motor and rear wheel data and associate it with the ride.

Anyone else experience this sort of problem and have found some other fix, or, explanation for it?

 

[Konanige]

There is a fix, Garmin!!!

 

[Ridenfool]

There is a fix, Garmin!!!

Oh, good!

So Garmin now has the ability to read the Levo's wheel sensor, and allow tuning of the Motor, and access to Diagnostics, Ride stats history showing everything the Mission Control app shares, and it will alert me about updates of Specialized firmware, errors in the motor or battery, etc.?

Oh, and the Garmin can do this from the phone without requiring the purchase and installation of a second GPS unit when I already have one in my hand?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Don't even get me started with Garmin's struggles with software, I've used their products for decades on motorcycles. They may be the best portable GPS company, but, IMHO, that isn't saying much at all. I quit using the Zumo and went back to using the phone on the MC because the Garmin was such a horrible experience.

Perhaps you not offering this suggestion as if it were a viable alternative would be a better fix.

 

[Konanige]

Just pulling your leg mate, I'm not interested in all the bike data myself, only total distance etc, my legs tell me if I'm at the right cadence or in the right gear, so I've always used Garmin rather than gave a phone strapped to my bars. I tried the 'Ride 'app a couple of times but like you say its worse than useless! I'm pretty sure that Garmin devices will connect to the bike and communicate quite a lot of different data fields. My watch always connects to the bike when I start it recording and displays cadence etc. Good luck getting Spesh to change anything!!

 

[Ridenfool]

Yeah, just the result of my living in a world where companies like Tesla are crafting amazing software for their products and hoping one of the e-bike oems might take the hint.

Whoever is making this user experience the best and most useful will be the winners. The UI and the dependable recording of our ride data might rate as high or higher than the Motor and Battery performance in many customers' eyes. Privacy is a concern that was brought up in another thread. The owner should be allowed to opt out of sharing personal info with Specialized.

I wonder if their focus on gathering demographic and trend data is the most significant hurdle between current operational parameters and solving the problem I experience by allowing the app to work without a data connection. (if the support guy was right about that being the cause)

 

[#lazy]

I go riding to get away from staring at my phone

 

[Ridenfool]

I go riding to get away from staring at my phone ☺

I'm a volunteer trail builder ⛏ and map maker 🗺. The apps are tools for this stuff. Wheel distance is more accurate than GPS distance. Also, MC can be a useful fitness feedback device.

Though I seldom look at it while riding, mostly while sipping a cold one after the ride.

 

[CruJones]

Oh, good!

So Garmin now has the ability to read the Levo's wheel sensor, and allow tuning of the Motor, and access to Diagnostics, Ride stats history showing everything the Mission Control app shares, and it will alert me about updates of Specialized firmware, errors in the motor or battery, etc.?

Oh, and the Garmin can do this from the phone without requiring the purchase and installation of a second GPS unit when I already have one in my hand?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Don't even get me started with Garmin's struggles with software, I've used their products for decades on motorcycles. They may be the best portable GPS company, but, IMHO, that isn't saying much at all. I quit using the Zumo and went back to using the phone on the MC because the Garmin was such a horrible experience.

Perhaps you not offering this suggestion as if it were a viable alternative would be a better fix.

While Garmins have their issues (I too use their Zumos on my moto) it's still the best option for places with limited cell coverage. You can get most of the data via a Edge (cadence, speed, GPS trail mapping, etc.) that is likely more accurate than the MC app anyway. If you want to use the MC app for the tuning the motor, accessing diagnostics, etc. then just do that at home - I'm sure most people (including me) do just that. The only thing that the Garmin can't do is the auto tuning while you're riding, which for me is fine. The rest of the stuff I need the MC app for I can do before/after my ride and the issue of cell coverage is not an issue.

 

[Ridenfool]

While Garmins have their issues (I too use their Zumos on my moto) it's still the best option for places with limited cell coverage. You can get most of the data via a Edge (cadence, speed, GPS trail mapping, etc.) that is likely more accurate than the MC app anyway. If you want to use the MC app for the tuning the motor, accessing diagnostics, etc. then just do that at home - I'm sure most people (including me) do just that. The only thing that the Garmin can't do is the auto tuning while you're riding, which for me is fine. The rest of the stuff I need the MC app for I can do before/after my ride and the issue of cell coverage is not an issue.

For the moto I load maps on the phone using a navigation app (OsmAnd) and even without cellular signal have full navigation functionality using the phone's GPS receiver. Also use the GeoTracker app for recording tracks, and for location finding while building trail in places without cell coverage.

Once my warranty expires I'll install the TCU2 (Mastermind) and have all the Mission Control tuning at my fingertips. I'm not spending any more on Garmin devices, nor am I putting expensive electronics on the handlebar.

It seems odd to me how Mission Control requires cell data signal when the phone itself can provide GPS location, tracks, etc. without cell signal. The app seems to be built with the intent of sharing data with Specialized, Strava, and such over the internet, and tracking customer usage, none of which is important to me. A key part of Mission Control for me is the wheel-measured mileage, as the accuracy is more precise for map making than is GPS, particularly when measuring a winding trail section. I've seen as much as a half mile difference between wheel and GPS over a 13 mile loop.

Only MC won't reliably record the track without cell data signal, so I'm left considering putting an old-school Planet Bike wireless computer on this state-of-the-art Levo as my riding area has a lot of dead zones for cell use. Though, I think the TCU2 will provide wheel mileage, so I may hold out for a another year and a few months for the warranty to expire and get one then, unless Specialized changes their current policy regarding TCU2 on earlier models. I broke my last bar-mounted bike computer endoing in Eureka Springs AR some years back.

 

[Jeff H]

For the moto I load maps on the phone using a navigation app (OsmAnd) and even without cellular signal have full navigation functionality using the phone's GPS receiver. Also use the GeoTracker app for recording tracks, and for location finding while building trail in places without cell coverage.

Once my warranty expires I'll install the TCU2 (Mastermind) and have all the Mission Control tuning at my fingertips. I'm not spending any more on Garmin devices, nor am I putting expensive electronics on the handlebar.

It seems odd to me how Mission Control requires cell data signal when the phone itself can provide GPS location, tracks, etc. without cell signal. The app seems to be built with the intent of sharing data with Specialized, Strava, and such over the internet, and tracking customer usage, none of which is important to me. A key part of Mission Control for me is the wheel-measured mileage, as the accuracy is more precise for map making than is GPS, particularly when measuring a winding trail section. I've seen as much as a half mile difference between wheel and GPS over a 13 mile loop.

Only MC won't reliably record the track without cell data signal, so I'm left considering putting an old-school Planet Bike wireless computer on this state-of-the-art Levo as my riding area has a lot of dead zones for cell use. Though, I think the TCU2 will provide wheel mileage, so I may hold out for a another year and a few months for the warranty to expire and get one then, unless Specialized changes their current policy regarding TCU2 on earlier models. I broke my last bar-mounted bike computer endoing in Eureka Springs AR some years back.

Regarding your intent to replace a TCU1 with TCU2 , as has been confirmed on other threads, it won’t work. My retailer told me TCU2 is now linked to the bike serial number and you can’t just plug it in expecting it to work. An authorized dealer needs to connect it to their Specialized diagnostic software which phones home to the mothership to allow or deny based on S/N.

 

[CruJones]

...
It seems odd to me how Mission Control requires cell data signal when the phone itself can provide GPS location, tracks, etc. without cell signal.
...

It's likely for the mapping. It's the same reason you cannot navigate with Google Maps without cell coverage on your phone unless you've downloaded the offline maps. If they allowed downloading of offline maps it may work, but knowing Specialized there's also other things happening that are pinging their servers. I honestly doubt you'd get a definitive answer on this as most of their Support people wouldn't know what's happening. You could do a test at home with the MC app running and a pcap program running on your router, but honestly who's going to go through all the trouble to just prove Specialized are needlessly pinging their servers with the MC app.

 

[Ridenfool]

Regarding your intent to replace a TCU1 with TCU2 , as has been confirmed on other threads, it won’t work. My retailer told me TCU2 is now linked to the bike serial number and you can’t just plug it in expecting it to work. An authorized dealer needs to connect it to their Specialized diagnostic software which phones home to the mothership to allow or deny based on S/N.

Which is why I linked the other thread I created after having that conversation with Support.

Despite the fact that there are two examples in this forum of people who have installed TCU2 on earlier models and have many miles without a problem. There are also youtube videos of shops swapping the TCU2 from a new bike to an older bike and it works fine.

It is entirely possible that Specialized have other reasons* behind making claims that TCU2 is incompatible with models that don't have the module registered with the bike's SN. (what stops a Specialized dealership from updating the SN to include the new module?)

* Osborning their newest high-end bikes, supply chain issues, software design determined by accountants, etc. are all possibilities that might cause them to thwart users retrofitting the TCU2.

Eventually, I expect that TCU2 will be found working fine on older models, though there may be some limit on how many years back that goes. For now, the jury is still out on whether these claims of incompatibility by Specialized are based in fact. I'll hold off on that until they change their tune, or, my warranty expires.

 

[lthomas71]

Hi Ridenfool,
you may try the Turbo Tacho App. I was also disapointed by the MC app. So i decided to write my own app. The Turbo Tacho doesn't require any cellualar coverage. It it will work with the TCU not the mastermind TCU. It currently only reads data from the bike. If you wish, you could do an adjustment for speed and distance. For example i have set my wheel size of 2000 mm but using "Real" wheel size of 2365mm, with the Turbo Tacho the app uses the right ratio to display the correct speed and distance. I personaly use MC for setting up my bike, do the updates and so with MC, and use the Turbo Tacho as an alternative to display the bike data durring my ride. If you miss some feature please let me know.
BR, Thomas

PS: You can find the APP here Turbo Tacho - Light - Apps on Google Play

 

[urastus]

It is entirely possible that Specialized have other reasons*

absolutely, just like apple, ms, g00gle etc; they're all control freaks who believe they have a right to your data with or without your knowledge. Shimano tries it on too however there is a workaround. The app tries to make you believe that data needs to be connected. You can allow for location via gps only (not the cell network) and not connect to data. Ignore the warnings and tick through. This way the locally installed app only gets your location, and any other data on your phone, but can't upload it.

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

Have you tried BLEvo? Might be a solution it’s very stable for me.

 

[BushLevo]

My 2019 Levo has a TCU1 and works great with BLEVo. I have also dumped Specialized MC as a ride app...too flaky and doesn't record anywhere near the ride data that BLEVo does.
I also use a Garmin Edge1030 which can easily connect to the Levo's ANT+ speed, power and cadence sensors.

 

[Ridenfool]

Have you tried BLEvo? Might be a solution it’s very stable for me.

I might try it if they would offer it via the Amazon App store.
My preference is to avoid ever setting up a payment account on Google.

 

[LevoRoboto]

So Garmin now has the ability to read the Levo's wheel sensor, and allow tuning of the Motor, and access to Diagnostics, Ride stats history showing everything the Mission Control app shares, and it will alert me about updates of Specialized firmware, errors in the motor or battery, etc.?

Oh, and the Garmin can do this from the phone without requiring the purchase and installation of a second GPS unit when I already have one in my hand?

Do you intend to ride the bike or fiddle with it?

I set up my bike in about three rides and have had no reason to use MC except at home to apply firmware. Where I ride, you are hours from a cell signal of any kind. I did have one error message from the motor on a ride, but solved it without any app. What, realistically, are you going to do 15 miles from the trailhead other than reboot the bike? I don’t need MC to explain that.

My Garmin Edge 830 has the eMtn activity which does power, cadence and mode, literally everything one needs by simply attaching to the sensors. It is stone stupid easy to configure and us. Zero bugs. Integrates with my other activities, it literally perfect.

 

[Ridenfool]

The most significant issue is when I'm measuring "wheel mileage" while working as a trail steward building trail, making maps, designing routes, and things like that for my local riding area. If the app stops working it doesn't record the mileage for that ride. It does add to the Odometer's total mileage found in Diagnostics, but that isn't as useful as having accurate mileage for the last ride.

GPS mileage is not accurate enough for some of the promoters putting on events (particularly running events) at the place where I have been building and maintaining trails for over two decades. On the local 13 mile loop GPS will usually be short by 1/4 to 1/2 mile overall when compared to measured wheel mileage on the same ride.

I rarely touch the phone while on the ride unless I am noting the specific length of a section of the loop.

It might be nice on occasion to have everything in the app work, should I want to use it at any time. That's not too much to ask in the 21st century, is it?

Amazingly, after the latest update, it has been operating flawlessly for the last half dozen rides.

 

[CruJones]

Here's what you do to get the more accurate odometer reading - you run your Garmin Edge and either setup a Garmin speed sensor and use that or if you have your bike connected as an 'eBike' within the Garmin edge then pull the speed sensor from the bike. When the Garmin has a speed sensor it uses that for the odometer vs the GPS track and is more accurate.

 

[Ridenfool]

Yes, it makes so much sense to spend hundreds of dollars more in order to acquire the data the OEM's built-in tech already provides.

Granted, for bikes that don't offer this already, and the owner already owns the Garmin device, the Speed Sensor accessory or data harvesting from the bike is a valid option.

For anyone owning a bike that was designed to be capable of providing this, and who have no use for other Garmin features (because phone apps can already provide them) it seems an excessive waste of money. Particularly for someone that prefers to avoid putting an expensive electronic device on their handlebars.

Speaking from a couple of decades of Garmin user experience across several of their products as well as mastering their Basecamp software. Garmin has always had more than their fair share of buggy software or firmware, and user interface issues.

So, from where I stand I'd likely be waiting on either of these manufacturers to address software issues and see no reason to give up a significant amount of beer and bacon money for the privilege of experiencing this hassle twice over.

Updates to Specialized firmware and the MC app ought to have this solved over time. It does appear to be working flawlessly for me now. Though the guy I ride with (Turbo Levo Comp) hasn't had a successful recording of his rides for a long time (after updates, multiple app reinstallations, and review of his setup compared to mine). I've suggested he work directly with Specialized Support to resolve it, but it isn't a big enough problem for him to follow up on. Still, I get to hear him lament upon it after every ride.

 

[RickBullotta]

While Garmins have their issues (I too use their Zumos on my moto) it's still the best option for places with limited cell coverage. You can get most of the data via a Edge (cadence, speed, GPS trail mapping, etc.) that is likely more accurate than the MC app anyway. If you want to use the MC app for the tuning the motor, accessing diagnostics, etc. then just do that at home - I'm sure most people (including me) do just that. The only thing that the Garmin can't do is the auto tuning while you're riding, which for me is fine. The rest of the stuff I need the MC app for I can do before/after my ride and the issue of cell coverage is not an issue.

An iPhone works fine without cell coverage also, and the apps are far superior to those on the Garmins. For many of them I can download entire trail regions for offline use (no data coverage), as well as of course routes and tracks and courses. I have an old iPhone 8 with a QuadLock mount and have TrailForks and GPS Tracks installed on it. Linked it to a new Apple ID that isn't my primary account (so no risk of getting access to any sensitive information if the phone were to be lost or stolen). Works great!