Levo or Stance

[AustroTom]

Hello All,
New to this forum and loving it!
I have been mtb most of my life (my current bike is a 20 year old Rockhopper), and am ready to jump in the e-riding. Full suspension is a must.
But my head is exploding! Being a E-beginner I went through all sorts of brands and models. I don't even need a new bike, a fairly used one to crash a couple of times would be fine . Two bikes stuck out to me: The Specialized Turbo Levo (2020), and the Giant Stance E+Power (2020).
Now these bikes differ greatly in price but do they in performance? Especially for a novice like me?
I also looked at the lower end Bikes but am I correct that the rear hub option is not a good one when on single tracks with tight turns and climbs/descents?
I will take any help I can get.
Oh btw I live in Socal US.
Thomas

 

[Browneye]

The comparable Giant eMTB to Turbo Levo is the Trance. It has the 'pro' motor and Maestro suspension. All of the other components are a step up as well. The Stance is a very basic entry-level bike. It's fine, but definitely budget-oriented all around.

So if these are your only choices, take the Turbo Levo - but select the 'comp' upgraded version as the component upgrade and bigger pack you get for about a grand is a very good value. List for the turbo levo comp is about $6200 IIRC. A Trance E+1 Pro is about $5700 and arguably a superior eMTB, for a lot of reasons. Both manufacturers make a very nice and solidly built ebike. Worth also looking at a Trek Powerfly - with the new Bosch upgraded assist drive.

All that said, the yamaha assist drive is known to be bulletproof. The Brose version in the Levo, not so much. But a reputable dealer will keep it running for you if you do have problems.

 

[maynard]

Levo

 

[KeithR]

It might be helpful to look at the question like this: the Stance will be a perfectly decent, rideable, fun bike to start your ebike journey; but the Levo is what you'd probably put on a shortlist when you'd grown out of the Giant and were looking to step up.

Personally (and I speak as a fan of Giant - my "acoustic" bike is a Trance 2, and I love it) I'd skip the "starter" bike in this list.

But as Chris points out, if you can get a Trance, that would definitely be worth considering from the start. Don't know if it's "superior" to the Levo, but it's a well-sorted bike in its own right.

 

[AustroTom]

Thank you all for your input.
Very well said, Keith. I chose the two bikes because I hear nothing but good things from the Levo. But I chose the Stance because of the thought "is it the better starter bike"?. I just don't think I need a high performance bike for what I do (I'm afraid to jump at my age?).

 

[AustroTom]

There is of course the other question of "definitely 29" or 27-1/2" wheels"?

 

[AustroTom]

Whats this ORBEA I keep hearing about? Would that one be one to be considered?

 

[JoeBlow]

I bought an Orbea Wild FS H20 for less than £4000 a few weeks ago. It's bang on middle of the range and the best speced bike I could find for the money. Fox suspension, Shimano brakes, Bosch Gen 4 motor and 29" wheels. No regrets so far. I ride mainly bike parks but nothing too dramatic just the usual single track with rocks, roots and the odd bit of modest air time. I upgraded from a Trek with 130mm travel and 27.5" wheels and the improvement in comfort and performance is significant. The ONLY thing I'm not keen on is the Bosch display system. The Levo is far better in that regard. Not sure if it's because it's a lesser known bike but it does get plenty of admiring looks and comments.

If your rides are similar to mine I would highly recommend it.

Al

 

[maynard]

Whats this ORBEA I keep hearing about? Would that one be one to be considered?

Yep they look good .

 

[AustroTom]

Ideally I would like to stay under 4K. Just don't see spending that kind of money when I use the bike only once a week (if that).
Used would be ideal, but EVERYBODY buys these things over here in the states now so you wont find many even in the stores. And the used ones for sale are gone by the time they post them (unless they gouge, which I've seen as well already).

Browneye, I see youre socal as well? whereabouts?

 

[Elover]

A massive point i think people overlook is geometry..you can have the best motor and componants, but if the bike dont feel right when you ride it, then its a no go... . Iv only ridden the giant for about a minute, but it felt good to me.. Personally and i have 3 friends with the levo, its just short and feels like you have to ride off the back off the bike... 90s dh vibe..my friend with the levo says the same, he will be selling it so. I would take the giant anyday, simply because i just dont like the levo feel... Demo is the best way, iv fallen in love with bikes, had a demo day and happily given back at the end of the day knowing it wasnt for me.

 

[KeithR]

A massive point i think people overlook is geometry.

Not necessarily "overlooked" - there's just no value in discussing it in the context of the original question: only the OP can decide what works for him, and that involves riding bikes.

He's trying to get to that stage.

Case in point: I really like the geo of my Turbo Levo SL (which is like the Levo in most regards) but I also really like the geo of my acoustic Giant.

And nothing about what I like helps Tom at all.

 

[Elover]

A massive point i think people overlook is geometry..you can have the best motor and componants, but if the bike dont feel right when you ride it, then its a no go... . Iv only ridden the giant for about a minute, but it felt good to me.. Personally and i have 3 friends with the levo, its just short and feels like you have to ride off the back off the bike... 90s dh vibe..my friend with the levo says the same, he will be selling it so. I would take the giant anyday, simply because i just dont like the levo feel... Demo is the best way, iv fallen in love with bikes, had a demo day and happily given back at the end of the day knowing it wasnt for me.

Not necessarily "overlooked" - there's just no value in discussing it in the context of the original question: only the OP can decide what works for him, and that involves riding bikes.

He's trying to get to that stage.

Case in point: I really like the geo of my Turbo Levo SL (which is like the Levo in most regards) but I also really like the geo of my acoustic Giant.

And nothing about what I like helps Tom at all.

Not necessarily "overlooked" - there's just no value in discussing it in the context of the original question: only the OP can decide what works for him, and that involves riding bikes.

He's trying to get to that stage.

Case in point: I really like the geo of my Turbo Levo SL (which is like the Levo in most regards) but I also really like the geo of my acoustic Giant.

And nothing about what I like helps Tom at all.
[/QUOTE ?

 

[JoeBlow]

A massive point i think people overlook is geometry..you can have the best motor and componants, but if the bike dont feel right when you ride it, then its a no go... . Iv only ridden the giant for about a minute, but it felt good to me.. Personally and i have 3 friends with the levo, its just short and feels like you have to ride off the back off the bike... 90s dh vibe..my friend with the levo says the same, he will be selling it so. I would take the giant anyday, simply because i just dont like the levo feel... Demo is the best way, iv fallen in love with bikes, had a demo day and happily given back at the end of the day knowing it wasnt for me.

Not necessarily unless you have been riding for years and your muscle memory is ingrained. My Orbea felt very different to my Trek. So much so that if I had tested the Orbea beforehand I would probably not have bought it as it felt so alien. After a days riding I felt totally at home on it and my riding and comfort levels have benefited significantly

Al.

 

[Elover]

Not necessarily unless you have been riding for years and your muscle memory is ingrained. My Orbea felt very different to my Trek. So much so that if I had tested the Orbea beforehand I would probably not have bought it as it felt so alien. After a days riding I felt totally at home on it and my riding and comfort levels have benefited significantly

Al.

Iv ridden bmx for 10 years and mtb for over 25 years and yes you adjust to the feel of a new or different bike within days, in fact sometimes a few good hours. But the point im making is bikes have different feels and this is very important when choosing, as much as motor and componants...

 

[JoeBlow]

Yes I took your point and then went on to illustrate why in my case this did not prove to be the case. I'm not saying you are wrong simply putting forward an alternative opinion.

Al

 

[KeithR]

Yes I took your point and then went on to illustrate why in my case this did not prove to be the case. I'm not saying you are wrong simply putting forward an alternative opinion.

Al

Which was precisely my point too.

Besides, it's perfectly reasonable for a rider to know whether a bike does or doesn't feel good under him, without him knowing anything about its geometry.

"Geometry" and "how a bike feels" are two related, but actually entirely different, things.

 

[Elover]

Which was precisely my point too.

Besides, it's perfectly reasonable for a rider to know whether a bike does or doesn't feel good under him, without him knowing anything about its geometry.

"Geometry" and "how a bike feels" are two related, but actually entirely different, things.

Being a wanker and cunt are both different expressions but can be applied to the same person ?

 

[PhilBaker]

It in part comes down to how much you want to spend. You'll have a lot of fun on both! The new Orbea is an expensive bike but an Epic ride looking at the stat's but do you want or need to spend that much.

I've ridden normal MTB for years (always Giant for the last 12), and just got my first eMTB a few months ago. It's a budget entry level bike but epic fun . I ride with a bunch of guys all on Levo's. Is the Levo a better bike than the budget one I ride, yes, sure, but how much do you want to spend and how hard are you going ride...

 

[Pdoz]

I have been mtb most of my life (my current bike is a 20 year old Rockhopper), and am ready to jump in the e-riding.......

. Especially for a novice like me?

If you are a long term mtb rider managing to ride modern trails on a 20 yo rockhopper....you're NOT a novice, but you ARE in for a surprise.

Try very hard to get yourself a ride on a few modern bikes to experience the advances in suspension , brakes, dropper posts, and geometry. You don't need an ebike to get an understanding of what these advances mean to how you will ride - just concentrate on the downhills Because riding an emtb is like riding down hill all day long. Ask yourself just how much bike you need, then how much you actually want, reflect on the difference then decide how far you are willing to stretch that budget.

The Orbea you are hearing about is their new rise model , basically a different approach to the ultralight emtb theme introduced by the specialized SL series ( nb these are NOT levo and you really should take a look...) . Think 3-7 kg weight saving compared to other ebikes. These are the 2 bikes I'd be considering at the moment if I could walk into. a shop and do a test ride before spending crazy $ to replace my perfectly capable 3 yo giant. But I can't get my head around ordering a bike that MIGHT be here this time next year....

So...stance, levo, ORbea?

A stance will eat your rock hopper for breakfast

A levo could seduce it from across a crowded bar

The Orbea rise....it's the stuff of fantasy

Second hand? Unless you find a brand with decent transferable warranty ( specialized) - don't even complicate the choice. Covid availability has made second hand prices crazy. But if you find someone selling a SL levo because they ordered an orbea rise early enough - buy the sl levo. Not the regular kevo, different beast and who wants a used bar tramp unless she's a supermodel?

 

[AustroTom]

Super points guys, and YES geometry IS an important factor. As a matter of fact I always hated the way how short the rockhopper is (I most of the time sit at the end of the seat because of my long upper torso). So that will be my first point. Absoutely right, I have not ridden many other bikes so I wont' know what feels right. Problem is, bike stores in my area don't have e bikes and if they do nobody lets you demo cause nobody has any in stock to choose (I was in a motorsports store closest to me yesterday and they had (8) Levos, one 29 2020 for $ 5,000, (5) comps for $ 6,250 and (2) expert carbon for over 8k). said they just got them in so no test riding
So yes, I gotta find a Trance, a Levo and a Orbeo to test ride. I did take out a 2019 Kenevo for a couple of hours last time in Mammoth and I liked it (actually I should've bought it when they offered it for $ 2,900 at the end of their seson, but I didn't know anything about them then and it was pretty beat up too).

 

[Forever Wild]

The comparable Giant eMTB to Turbo Levo is the Trance. It has the 'pro' motor and Maestro suspension. All of the other components are a step up as well. The Stance is a very basic entry-level bike. It's fine, but definitely budget-oriented all around.

So if these are your only choices, take the Turbo Levo - but select the 'comp' upgraded version as the component upgrade and bigger pack you get for about a grand is a very good value. List for the turbo levo comp is about $6200 IIRC. A Trance E+1 Pro is about $5700 and arguably a superior eMTB, for a lot of reasons. Both manufacturers make a very nice and solidly built ebike. Worth also looking at a Trek Powerfly - with the new Bosch upgraded assist drive.

All that said, the yamaha assist drive is known to be bulletproof. The Brose version in the Levo, not so much. But a reputable dealer will keep it running for you if you do have problems.

I have a Trek Powerfly. I’d go with Levo over the Powerfly. No experience with the trance.
Ultimately .. you can’t go too wrong with any of these options.

 

[Browneye]

Super points guys, and YES geometry IS an important factor. As a matter of fact I always hated the way how short the rockhopper is (I most of the time sit at the end of the seat because of my long upper torso). So that will be my first point. Absoutely right, I have not ridden many other bikes so I wont' know what feels right. Problem is, bike stores in my area don't have e bikes and if they do nobody lets you demo cause nobody has any in stock to choose (I was in a motorsports store closest to me yesterday and they had (8) Levos, one 29 2020 for $ 5,000, (5) comps for $ 6,250 and (2) expert carbon for over 8k). said they just got them in so no test riding
So yes, I gotta find a Trance, a Levo and a Orbeo to test ride. I did take out a 2019 Kenevo for a couple of hours last time in Mammoth and I liked it (actually I should've bought it when they offered it for $ 2,900 at the end of their seson, but I didn't know anything about them then and it was pretty beat up too).

I'm in OC - you're welcome to try out both my bikes. My Occam isn't e-assist, but the ergos are similar. Interesting how similar they are at different sizes.

Not allowing a demo on a bike for $6-grand that you're considering is a complete fail. I'd like to know that logic. How does a spin around the block damage a new eMTB????? For god's sakes.

And yes, the extra $$ for the 'comp' version Levo is worth it - you get way more than that in upgrades, plus the larger battery pack.

When I was ready to buy, I went and tested both turbo levo and SL - liked them both, but I got my Trance E+2 for about $3700 - the last '19 out there in this area. A little dealer in Costa Mesa happened to get one in, and I just happened along. My eyes nearly bugged out. We were shopping for a bike for the wife - she wasn't too happy when I told her I HAD to buy this one. LOL

And yes, you can't go wrong with anything from the Big-3. They're all nice bikes.
Orbea makes a really nice bike, but getting one is likely to prove near impossible. I would check with Jenson USA, and The Path - both are dealers in so-Cal. Orbea is shipping bikes, but only for their dealer stock orders. Internet special orders aren't slated to ship 'till June next year. Giant is also very slow at shipping '21 bikes, any model. A few are trickling in, but they get bought up as fast as they arrive.

YT Industries is sold out through next year on most of their models - everything is pre-ordered.
Canyon might have a few bikes, and Commencal may as well. Worth looking at. And if you have some $$ to spend, Pivot, Santa Cruz, and Rocky Mountain are options. All of them are excellent. Cube may show up from time to time as well.

Other brands I'm not at all familiar with are GT, Fuji, and Canondale - I just don't know how they stack up to the rest of the pack.

 

[Pdoz]

Not allowing a demo on a bike for $6-grand that you're considering is a complete fail. I'd like to know that logic. How does a spin around the block damage a new eMTB????? For god's sakes.



Other brands I'm not at all familiar with are GT, Fuji, and Canondale - I just don't know how they stack up to the rest of the pack.

Pre covid, that demo ride cost the dealer or distributor around 20% of the bikes value.

When we did the buller epic in 09 , there was a huge fleet of "demo" bikes , essentially all brand new at the start of the ride, only ridden by 1 person for 60 km at the end. All those bikes were then offered to that person at a 20% discount! That day would have cost the distributors + bike shops close to $100 k , but it was a fantastic investment - over 100 new emtb riders, all of them gave 10 mates a ride on their new bikes, and emtb has exploded in our region.

My giant is a good example - in 2018 we had a critical emtb shortage due to bosch not being able to keep up with supply ( sound familiar? ) . I was desperate to test ride a modern emtb , and as soon as a local dealer had one I was out riding it. Despite me being the only rider, and there being a long list of hopeful test pilots, I was offered that bike $1500 off retail.

 

[Browneye]

Most of the shops I've visited (in fact, I can' recall any that don't) allow you to sit on a bike, ride it around the lot, test it out. Sure, it's not a 12 mile forest trail, but at least you get to see it run. This is for ANY bike you think you might want to buy.
Maybe it's just cuz I LOOK like could buy, and I'm showing interest. [shrug]
This demo affects the selling price....ZERO.

 

[Browneye]

IMO, a few pounds, or 27.5 or 29" wheels doesn't carry as much weight when comparing ebikes. Like @Pdoz says, it's like always riding downhill.
Go for comfy suspension, beefy tires, and a reliable assist drive. Unless you're a strong DIY'r I recommend you buy from a reliable bike shop, so if you have motor problems they'll take care of you. Nothing like buying a $4K door stop.

The new modern eMTB's are all really easy and comfy to ride. As much as the ebike haters hate the assist - it's what takes away all the un-fun about mountain bike riding - they all go up the hills easily - so you can ride back down! Make sure you like the way it rides DOWNHILL. LOL

I had to re-adjust my budget reality to get something quality that was easy to ride. You can't get a really nice eMTB for a couple'a grand - the good ones just cost more than that. It's for fun, so bite the bullet and go for it - trail riding has to be about the most fun you can have on two wheels. Or as I like to say, about the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

 

[AustroTom]

Thank you all for your input. I will definitely spend some time before I pull the trigger.
At the end I need to get (4) bikes because I want my whole family to ride. So, I have the opportunity to play around a little and pass on (know what I mean?). What is your stance on 27-1/2 vs 29?

 

[Code54]

I have the Stance E+2 2021 and love it. Sure there are much better bikes out there but for the price you cant beat it. I also find I can do anything I want to do and always enjoy riding it. If you are planning on passing it down the Stance maybe a great option.