I have 2019 Levo using the Revelation Fork. I am thinking of upgrading to a 2021 160mm Lyric Ultimate. I am familiar with removing the fork for headset service etc but is there anything I need to know or buy extra to fit the Lyric?
Levo Gen 2 Levo Fork Upgrade
- Thread starter Mikerb
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #3
I wondered about that...I gurss if it is not hugely longer I could use another spacer. If I need to cut it any tips? I guess the issue is nust ensuring it is cut square?
- Thread starter
- #5
Jeff H
Well-known member
As an alternative have you considered upgrading the Revelation internals? It’s basically an oem Pike and you can buy the latest Pike damper and air spring (including 160) and essentially have a 2021 Ultimate. It’ll cost about 1/3 to 1/2 a new fork depending on which damper, rct3 or rc2. I went with the rc2 and it’s a huge improvement over the original. Still, a Lyric ultimate would be the, um, ultimate
- Thread starter
- #8
Yes but it would not be RED would it!!!As an alternative have you considered upgrading the Revelation internals? It’s basically an oem Pike and you can buy the latest Pike damper and air spring (including 160) and essentially have a 2021 Ultimate. It’ll cost about 1/3 to 1/2 a new fork depending on which damper, rct3 or rc2. I went with the rc2 and it’s a huge improvement over the original. Still, a Lyric ultimate would be the, um, ultimate
Jeff H
Well-known member
Can of spray paint should fix that
I use one of these, perfect straight cut.
a decent hacksaw blade and file down the edge to smooth it off.
a decent hacksaw blade and file down the edge to smooth it off.
lifeline x-tools saw guide | Chain Reaction
lifeline x-tools saw guide - Get the Lowest Prices from the Worlds Largest Online Bike Store - Chain Reaction Cycles
www.chainreactioncycles.com
Jeff H
Well-known member
Instead of a Lyric why not the new ZEB?
I think the ZEB will only be marginal Gains. I rode Rob's Lyrik on the Stilus and I think it's one of my favourite forks..I used to be an absolute Fox fanboy but for comfort and all round fun RockShox seem the way ahead. My Fox 36 Factory has always been quite harsh..
I love the fact you can swap out the dampers and increase the travel on RockShox..
I love the fact you can swap out the dampers and increase the travel on RockShox..
I want my 2 Dollars!
Member
You'll also need a star nut and a tool to set it properly. You can try to tap it in but it's a crap shoot without the tool
Just installed two star nuts with bolt and hammer. Like this. No problems with that.
I want my 2 Dollars!
Member
Yeah, I've done it like that too, years ago before Amazon... Hell, before the internet.
The thing is, if it goes crooked it can be a pain. The tools like 25 bucks. The fork is 900?
Seems silly since it's so easy to buy one now.... JMHO
The thing is, if it goes crooked it can be a pain. The tools like 25 bucks. The fork is 900?
Seems silly since it's so easy to buy one now.... JMHO
Swissrob
Well-known member
Easier with a longer bolt so a quick trip to the hardware store for a 100/150mm x 6mm bolt for a CHF is worhwhile and you won't ruin your head stem bolt.
- Thread starter
- #18
OK I have the fork and the star nut installer and saw guide so ready to go. The fork spec says 180mm to 220mm rotor. I assume that means it will fit a 180mm rotor with no post mount adaptor and up to 220mm with a 40mm adaptor?
I have the original 200mm rotor. Am I correct to think the adaptor on my Rev fork is what I need for this fork.....so basically the same fitting as the Rev?? Just to want to check I have all the bits I need before I start to change the forks over.
On a separate point, what are your thoughts on using a spacer ABOVE the stem? I have seen it suggested that it gives the stem a better grip on the steerer but since the steerer has to be cut 3mm below the top of the spacer on top of the stem only 2mm of a 5mm spacer is actually in contact with the steerer tube...that seems a bit flimsy to me.
I have the original 200mm rotor. Am I correct to think the adaptor on my Rev fork is what I need for this fork.....so basically the same fitting as the Rev?? Just to want to check I have all the bits I need before I start to change the forks over.
On a separate point, what are your thoughts on using a spacer ABOVE the stem? I have seen it suggested that it gives the stem a better grip on the steerer but since the steerer has to be cut 3mm below the top of the spacer on top of the stem only 2mm of a 5mm spacer is actually in contact with the steerer tube...that seems a bit flimsy to me.
Yes.
Yes.
Stem should have as much grip as possible to the steering tube so is much better to have upper 5mm spacer and cut sterring tube 3mm below upper spacer than 3mm from upper edge of the stem ... Spacers are only for keeping distance when you preload the headset bearnigs then you tighten the stem to proper torque to hold everything together, so I see no flimsyness there.
- Thread starter
- #21
All done. I added another 5mm spacer below the stem which has helped centre me over the bike. The Lifeline saw guide and the starnut setter tool worked flawlessly. After an initial set up....but yet to do a proper ride...the fork is super plush and gets easilly into its mid stroke. Obviously yet to see how it ramps up with the 2 tokens that are fitted as standard. As a bonus I have got rid of an annoying creak when pulling on the bars. I suspect it was stem/steerer tube connection. It is easy to get grease on thr section of the steerer tube when inserting it through the headset bearings. I cleaned that top section and the stem with isopropyl this time after pushing the steerer tube through the headset.
- Thread starter
- #22
I set up the fork just riding over some kerbs and small grass verge ramps. I started off with 100psi which I know is too much and kept an allen key in my pocket, gradually reducing pressure until the fork felt about right, albeit super plush, then checked what pressure was left and what sag that gave. That was 30%. I carried on the test routine with very small increases in pressure until I could feel I was loosing small bump sensitivity. Overall I settled on a pressure that gave me c 25% sag. I then dialled in some rebound, left HSC open and set LSC at 8 clicks in. Then I did a 13 mile XC type ride. Mostly single track but no drops or jumps. I measured a bout 65% travel was used in that ride. Performance was amazing. Lots of soft bumb sensitivity and good mid stroke. The fork has 2 tokens but I was yet to see whether the fork would ramp up enough not to bottom out on a more demanding ride. Even so I left the fork at that pressure and today did one of my more normal forest rides that includes some good gravity runs with berms drops, roots, pot holes, ramps.....essentially all the bike would normally have to tackle.
Wow! This fork inspires so much confidence and just eats up every challenge. I probably pushed too hard on occasions and the fork definitely rescued my from a couple of offs! I had been considering buying another bike, keeping the Levo but getting something with a little more gnarly downhill capability. I now feel there is no need. The main limiting factor of the Levo prior to this upgrade was the fork. Pushing this fork to the limit of my skill level today the ramp up/end stroke stayed at about a max of 95% with one run pushing it to full travel (which was one of my near misses and if the fork had not been prepared to absorb the bank I hit I would have been OTBs). I have yet to try setting 2 and 3 on the HSC so I guess either that or a another 5psi would be needed for bike park type jumps. I will have to experiment.
In summary, this was an expensive upgrade but one I would thoroughly recommend if your bike has the Revelation fork. The difference is chalk and cheese! If you stick with the Revelation/ are not prepared to spend the money, I recommend you at least get the 2021 Debonair air spring upgrade kit which makes pressuring the fork so much simpler and reliable and sits the fork at its full expension rather than sagging 10mm under just the weight of the bike. It is also the case that the damping of the charger damper ...presumably ported for emtb use slows the recoil of the fork so much it causes it to stack. Dialling the rebound to only 1 or 2 clicks from full fast really improves the forks response. Maybe an alternative is to change the oil in the damper leg to a thinner spec.
Wow! This fork inspires so much confidence and just eats up every challenge. I probably pushed too hard on occasions and the fork definitely rescued my from a couple of offs! I had been considering buying another bike, keeping the Levo but getting something with a little more gnarly downhill capability. I now feel there is no need. The main limiting factor of the Levo prior to this upgrade was the fork. Pushing this fork to the limit of my skill level today the ramp up/end stroke stayed at about a max of 95% with one run pushing it to full travel (which was one of my near misses and if the fork had not been prepared to absorb the bank I hit I would have been OTBs). I have yet to try setting 2 and 3 on the HSC so I guess either that or a another 5psi would be needed for bike park type jumps. I will have to experiment.
In summary, this was an expensive upgrade but one I would thoroughly recommend if your bike has the Revelation fork. The difference is chalk and cheese! If you stick with the Revelation/ are not prepared to spend the money, I recommend you at least get the 2021 Debonair air spring upgrade kit which makes pressuring the fork so much simpler and reliable and sits the fork at its full expension rather than sagging 10mm under just the weight of the bike. It is also the case that the damping of the charger damper ...presumably ported for emtb use slows the recoil of the fork so much it causes it to stack. Dialling the rebound to only 1 or 2 clicks from full fast really improves the forks response. Maybe an alternative is to change the oil in the damper leg to a thinner spec.
Swissrob
Well-known member
When replacing the damper with 2.1 upgraded damper is it correct you leave out the rebound damper seal head from the old damper and then don't require oil in the upper leg?
Jeff H
Well-known member
Charger 2.1 is fully sealed. No external oil. There’s actually a rubber bladder around the internals which expands and contracts in use. If I remember correctly when replacing the charger 1 on my Revelation it used the original seal head which is more of a guide for the shaft. Your situation might be different if your damper isn’t a charger.
- Thread starter
- #27
None of this may be new to some of you but before deciding to replace my Revelation fork I did a lot of research to see what option were open to me to fit upgrades and/or improve it.
The first thing I found out that was new to me was that the compression setting on the top of the fork are Low Speed Compression. I had always thought the settings seem to make little difference to the overall compression/stiffness of the fork, and kept it fully open. It turns out that using a more moderate setting would in fact help the fork get into its midstroke.
I also found out that most users of the fork found that the stiffness of the fork could be reduced by running rebound almost full fast. If you do the classic rebound test with such a setting it is clearly wrong but what seems to the case is that the Charger damper is so heavily damped both in the compression stroke and rebound stroke that it not only adds to the stiff feeling of the fork but also can cause the fork to stack ( not recover fast enough).
I was not aware that both the rebound and compression stroke speed of the damper can be tuned via shim stack on each; and that the factory usually applies a medium tune on both. I suspect if the fork is specified for E bike use that tune is changed to firm?? Even the medium tune is likely to be too slow for a lightweight rider. Altering the tune via the shim stacks is probably not a DIY job but certainly an option if the fork is being serviced by a suspension specialist, and likelt to be significantly cheaper to have done than buy for example a RC 2/2.1 damper.......which may also need retuning anyway.
All of which may only be of interest to lighter riders or riders that are not riding Bike Park but may suggest some alternatives for those that find their fork much too stiff and lacking in small bump plushness.
The first thing I found out that was new to me was that the compression setting on the top of the fork are Low Speed Compression. I had always thought the settings seem to make little difference to the overall compression/stiffness of the fork, and kept it fully open. It turns out that using a more moderate setting would in fact help the fork get into its midstroke.
I also found out that most users of the fork found that the stiffness of the fork could be reduced by running rebound almost full fast. If you do the classic rebound test with such a setting it is clearly wrong but what seems to the case is that the Charger damper is so heavily damped both in the compression stroke and rebound stroke that it not only adds to the stiff feeling of the fork but also can cause the fork to stack ( not recover fast enough).
I was not aware that both the rebound and compression stroke speed of the damper can be tuned via shim stack on each; and that the factory usually applies a medium tune on both. I suspect if the fork is specified for E bike use that tune is changed to firm?? Even the medium tune is likely to be too slow for a lightweight rider. Altering the tune via the shim stacks is probably not a DIY job but certainly an option if the fork is being serviced by a suspension specialist, and likelt to be significantly cheaper to have done than buy for example a RC 2/2.1 damper.......which may also need retuning anyway.
All of which may only be of interest to lighter riders or riders that are not riding Bike Park but may suggest some alternatives for those that find their fork much too stiff and lacking in small bump plushness.
Glad you like it @Mikerb I'm so leaning more towards RockShox now.
The suspension setup is all about feel, personal preference and riding style/terrain. Watch some of the WC Downhillers and see how anal they get about it as it affects the whole feel of the bike. I'll bet this now feels like a new machine...
- Thread starter
- #29
Thanks. Yes it has transformed the bike. Interesting to see all the 2021 Levos have gone to 160mm up front....obviously after reading my post!!.
Considering now whether to upgrade the rear shock and if so what to go for.
Considering now whether to upgrade the rear shock and if so what to go for.
Everyone did it I think! 160mm on the Levo seems the sweet spot and probably stops peeps buying it thinking they want a bit more travel. I'm slowly leaning towards less travel as I progress..
I have a DPX2 on mine and I think it's marginal gains for the cost. Unless you're blasting down a long rock garden it's just a DPS on steroids (i.e. keep the same progression when it heats up)
I rode the Fox X2 a few times and that's my Fav rear shock, but others argue the DPX2 is better overall. It does fit but you have to reverse and rotate it a bit. There's some links on the forum if you do a search. The X2 is a bit more money but a completely different feel IMHO. The DPX2 just gives you a DPS feel which will be consistent for a very long descent.
If you want to keep it RockShox @R120 fitted a lovely RockShox to his Vitus similar the X2 with a modified AirCan which I am sure he will share..!
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