LBS: Attitudes, Bike Demos and Sales - ugh.

[NotAveJoe]

I live in the States and am starting to get fed up with the LBS' attitudes about eMTB bikes.

I'm in a rural area - great trails but not a lot of shop options. 50 miles from me there's a Specialized dealer and another shop that sells Treks. I reached out to both of them, telling them I was interested in an eMTB and asking if they had demos to ride. Neither responded. I sent another message asking about winter gloves and they both responded to that message, so I replied asking again about eMTBs. No response.

So, I called one of them and was told eMTBs are not allowed on the local trails (not true), and I'd be better off with a scooter or a spin bike for home. Not even sure where he was going with that comment.

I read the responses on the thread regarding whether people bought eMTBs without riding them but damn, I sure envy those that can ride some bikes and work on fit and riding feel.

The next closest LBS shops are over 120 miles away. I guess that's where I'll go next. These guys don't even want my money for an eMTB, even though I have a relationship with one of the shops -- I've purchased two bikes there and they've done all my warranty, tune, tire and brake work for years.

I just don't get the attitude. Are there actually shops out there that treat eMTB'ers like actual customers and real cyclists?

 

[ifu03558]

That's pretty crap, I certainly wouldn't give them any more of your business! Here in Scotland there is a lot more acceptance of emtb. Easy enough to get a demo and most shops sell them and are happy to do so. Hope you get sorted out soon, they are great fun!

 

[R120]

Personally I would be contacting both Specilaized and Trek and giving them the feedback on the shops in question - I am sure they would be very interested to hear the attitude of their dealers

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

^ I agree that the brands need to be notified, although I’m not sure if they can actually make an LBS stock any thing they don’t want to sell. Perhaps they can at least provide other alternatives to get their eBikes to isolated customers.

The thing about eBikes however is that it might need LBS servicing or product support more so than manual bikes. It’s a pity that some places are still currently dead against it.

 

[R120]

Well they will pay the price in terms of sales over the next few years - in Europe the advent of the EMTB is transforming the retail marketplace

 

[steve_sordy]

In the UK, eBikes are selling like hot cakes. When I was sniffing around for my first emtb, the local dealer told me that they sold £5m of ebikes in the last 3 months of 2018. It saved the shop from closure! In addition to bike sales, they get warranty work, standard maintenance, and of course every time someone calls in they usually buy something else as well (new tyres, grips, tools, clothing.......) It has energised the business.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

In the UK, eBikes are selling like hot cakes. When I was sniffing around for my first emtb, the local dealer told me that they sold £5m of ebikes in the last 3 months of 2018. It saved the shop from closure! In addition to bike sales, they get warranty work, standard maintenance, and of course every time someone calls in they usually buy something else as well (new tyres, grips, tools, clothing.......) It has energised the business.

Must’ve been a big dealer? That’s 1000 bikes at £5k a pop in 12 weeks?!

 

[steve_sordy]

Must’ve been a big dealer? That’s 1000 bikes at £5k a pop in 12 weeks?!

Good point!
I have 3 explanations for that:

1) It's less than 12 bikes per day. (Doable, but brisk for sure, especially as they sell clockwork bikes too).
2) He meant all three company locations, so less than 4 bikes per day.
3) I remembered wrong and it was £3m in the last 5 months. (600 bikes in 20 weeks = just over 4 bikes per day for all 3 stores).

However, I am sure that I was not wrong about the £5m in 3 months, so the sales guy must have been speaking for all three stores. Or the sales guy was remembering his company briefing wrong.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Well they will pay the price in terms of sales over the next few years - in Europe the advent of the EMTB is transforming the retail marketplace

I mentioned in another thread that a good friend of mine noticed that his LBS had a fair amount of eMTBs on display in the shop floor. He asked if the shop was being forced to stock eBikes by the suppliers. The bemused shop owner said that most of his sales are eBikes so why shouldn’t he stock them? This is in New Zealand though, and perhaps Kiwis always had the inclination to be early adopters.

eBikes are huge in Europe and I guess NZ is just following suit. I have friends in the manufacturing industry who participate in Eurobike each year. For years now he’s been telling me that this is where the industry is headed... and there’s no turning back.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I spoke with a product manager for a very big MTB brand recently. They told me that in 10 years regular MTB pedal bikes will be a niche market.

 

[Rusty]

The biggest problem with LBS is that many of them hate demos of any kind except for a quick flit around the carpark. It is an attitude thing going back forever - to the days of pretty much road bikes & commuters only. They would get in a top of the line Ti Raleigh/Look KG86/ Cervélo Soloist/Specialized McLaren S-Works Venge or whatever that was moonbeam dollars for a customer and it was a done deal. often paid for before it arrived. If there was something the buyer did not like they, being trendy roadies would pony up whatever dosh was needed to get it "Just Right".
Along came MTB with suspension and there were so many different models - Giant Anthem, Trance, Reign, Glory. Each a vastly different ride and also in sometimes 5 different levels. If you wanted say a Trance 0 carbon you might get to ride a Trance 2 around the carpark and be expected to front up a decent deposit before your bike was ordered.
Now we have eBikes in so many different varieties that are a lot more expensive for a LBS to carry decent stock. Many will buy a few and if they run out quickly will live with it knowing re-orders are unlikely to be met due to demand. Others will purchase a decent number for stock knowing that they will sell as demand is high and available numbers are tight. Some just don't even bother and will show you a catalogue then make you wait until something is available.
In all of these scenarios, due to lack of restock availability and decent sales numbers they are not keen on decent demos as they know they can sell without them.
Then you have what I consider the good LBS. They will have staff trained up on the new technology (An example is my LBS - 3 staff have had Shimano and Bosch training). They will deal on price for even a new model not even in stock yet as they know if they pre-sell a few they can increase their initial indent order and actually get stock. They will also often have 1 or 2 bikes they let out for demos knowing that even with a few dings and knocks they will get their cost price covered on sale and will sell more bikes by having them.

 

[Rusty]

Oh yer - and with so many people buying online without the chance of a demo many LBS really don't see the need for them.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Oh yer - and with so many people buying online without the chance of a demo many LBS really don't see the need for them.

That or LBS gets peeved knowing that some people use their bikes to test but then buy on-line after anyway?

 

[Weeds]

In the Pacific Northwest, it seems demo of an e-bike means rental. The rental will be refunded upon purchase.

 

[papab]

You should look for demo days. I demo'd Commencal, Spec, & Haibike at a demo in Aspen & bought the Commencal. Commencal, and, I think, YT sell direct. You might have to plan a vacation.
As far as dealer attitudes, I have one that was stocking Specialized ebikes, the others were OK, but wern't stocking them, but one had a Pivot Shuttle demo bike. There's a dealer in Grand Junction who specializes in e-bikes. Don't buy from a dealer who's being a dick. There's still a lot of snobby attitudes out there, more likely coming from the young workers, than the older wiser owner.

 

[NotAveJoe]

Thanks for the feedback. You guys make some good points - that it may be more of an issue with stock/demos than eMTBs specifically. I'll push some more and see what happens.

 

[Swan]

Thanks for the feedback. You guys make some good points - that it may be more of an issue with stock/demos than eMTBs specifically. I'll push some more and see what happens.

Make the drive up to North Idaho. We have a showroom with 10 Levos built up, along with 6 Como/Vados.. We usually have 2 test bikes that we rent out. I'll put that rental fee towards a bike purchase if you buy one..

Our rental bikes are all cleaned up and on the floor for sale, but I'd absolutely put you on either my or my wife's personal Levos if our test bikes are not available.

Sounds like those shops are not interested in your business, and I'd have a hard time supporting a shop that doesn't even giv you the time of day..

 

[Frank_Denmark]

I attend the MTB Festivals where there often are 10-15 different brands with both analog bikes and eMTBs - all do demos
Last time I experienced Danny MacAskills Drop 'n Roll show at the break

 

[Jamsxr]

I spoke with a product manager for a very big MTB brand recently. They told me that in 10 years regular MTB pedal bikes will be a niche market.

They’ll be reserved for the cool kids ?
To be fair, I still choose my MTB 80% of the time, but that may change as I get older!

I think as long as EWS, Downhill, etc draw big audiences then MTB will always lead the way. Same goes for amateur racing.

 

[Good Times]

I can’t seem to get a ride of the Reign E even in the carpark! I just want an idea of motor characteristics and noise...and you can’t contact Giant either except through the dealers....

 

[Al Boneta]

Must’ve been a big dealer? That’s 1000 bikes at £5k a pop in 12 weeks?!

 

[Al Boneta]

I live in the States and am starting to get fed up with the LBS' attitudes about eMTB bikes.

Are there actually shops out there that treat eMTB'ers like actual customers and real cyclists?

My shop does, because that’s who most of my customer are these days

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I can’t seem to get a ride of the Reign E even in the carpark! I just want an idea of motor characteristics and noise...and you can’t contact Giant either except through the dealers....

Here you go @Good Times ... not my video, but everything you see here is pretty accurate - characteristics AND noise. Also useful are the comparisons the author makes with other motor brands, both the good and the bad. It's very detailed but besides trail characteristics, the author sometimes makes evaluations based on commuter use.


This is the 2019 motor and the Yamaha Syncdrive Pro is exactly the same on the Trance e+ and on the Reign e+ bikes. Although it looks like the Yamaha PWX motor, the Yamaha Syncdrive Pro has been tweaked by Giant specifically for their bikes (hence the new name designation).

The sound that you hear is a low-growl which some people prefer to a high pitched whine (so if that's you). I can make this exact same sound (but softer) when my Trance e+ is on a work stand with the motor switched off - if I rotate the cranks forward... so I'm inclined to assume that this sound is generated by meshing internal reduction gears that have straight-cut teeth (like in racing transmissions - more efficient but noisier). Most of the time you won't notice it, except when you're climbing - it reaches its loudest as you pump out more torque.

The latest year 2020 Giant bikes have quieter motors (not by much) - I'm speculating that perhaps the straight-cut teeth gears have been changed to helical-cut gears (I could be wrong).

It may or may not make any difference for your final bike selection, but Nico Quere won the first International electric Enduro championship series on Giant Reign E+ Pro last October.

Hope this helps and all the best in your deliberations.

 

[Good Times]

Thanks man, yeah it seems to be the go for my preferences. I think what I'll end up doing is if I go for the Reign, I'll put the deposit down pending test ride. It's the only way to be sure. And being my first E, I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them tbh! I was riding my 2019 Reign today in massive wind gusts like a chump

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Thanks man, yeah it seems to be the go for my preferences. I think what I'll end up doing is if I go for the Reign, I'll put the deposit down pending test ride. It's the only way to be sure. And being my first E, I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them tbh! I was riding my 2019 Reign today in massive wind gusts like a chump

Might pay to go to the Giant website and compare the eReign geometry (head angle + wheelbase) to your analogue Reign. They're not necessarily the same. Sizing is key to enjoying your eBike. Also compare that to the eTrance geometry for good measure. There is a recent trend for going to longer and longer wheel bases. I just want to caution you about this trend, as it's not necessarily for everyone.

At least there are forums like this one we have here, to help you out. Sad really... because your LBS should really be doing this for you and earning all your future purchases, trust and loyalty.

 

[Good Times]

For sure, good advice. I ride a large Reign (I'm 185cm) and the large Reign E I sat on was way too cramped. The bars would hit my knees at like a 25deg turn! So XL would be the only option. This is also why I've had to bypass the Sight VLT which I rode and loved, but was just too small.

This forum, and the youtube reviews, have been invaluable. I wouldn't otherwise be anywhere...

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

For sure, good advice. I ride a large Reign (I'm 185cm) and the large Reign E I sat on was way too cramped. The bars would hit my knees at like a 25deg turn! So XL would be the only option. This is also why I've had to bypass the Sight VLT which I rode and loved, but was just too small.

This forum, and the youtube reviews, have been invaluable. I wouldn't otherwise be anywhere...

The eGiants also seem to have low front ends for some reason, and a lot of eTrance and eReign owners have changed the stock bars to high-risers at some point. Just so you're aware - may or may not have something to do with your knees hitting the bars.

 

[Pdoz]

I can’t seem to get a ride of the Reign E even in the carpark! I just want an idea of motor characteristics and noise...and you can’t contact Giant either except through the dealers....

Try posting in the giant section and asking if there are any owners in your area willing to give you a quick test ride?

The giant motor really is a love or hate thing - instant power and lower cadence bias can be perceived as unnatural by some. I love it and find the shimano / bosch motors whine and feel mushy....but every so often I'll be feeling energetic, spin the cranks fast and wonder where all the power went.