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Answered KMC chain question

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
I had to take my new chain off and put the old one back on. Totally dangerous. Chain suck horrendous.

can anyone tell me why my old chain has 8c written on the links and the new chain has 9c written on it?

both are KMC 11speed.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,096
9,584
Lincolnshire, UK
What you describe is a classic symptom of worn gears. Chain suck implies the front ring. If the front ring is worn, then what is the cassette like? Cassettes normally go well before the ring.

If it's all original kit, I would leave the old chain on until you start to have problems with shifting, then change the ring, cassette and chain in one go. Buy a chain wear gauge while you are at it, and use it.

I can't answer the 8c vs 9c question unless it's a batch number as I've never had a KMC chain.
 

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
What you describe is a classic symptom of worn gears. Chain suck implies the front ring. If the front ring is worn, then what is the cassette like? Cassettes normally go well before the ring.

If it's all original kit, I would leave the old chain on until you start to have problems with shifting, then change the ring, cassette and chain in one go. Buy a chain wear gauge while you are at it, and use it.

I can't answer the 8c vs 9c question unless it's a batch number as I've never had a KMC chain.

chain wear has only just reached 0.75
At the moment shifting is perfect
No noise at all.

put new identical KMC x11 chain on and the noise from the small Bosch chainring was shocking. Like a bag of nails and chain suck was incredibly dangerous.

I didn’t really detect any issues with the cassette and the new chain. The problem was all with the front sprocket. Sounded like the whole motor was about to fall apart.

put old chain on and all is quiet and perfect once again.

Bike has now done 1100 miles so I guess I’ll just keep going until I get symptoms but it still feels as good as new at the moment.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,096
9,584
Lincolnshire, UK
0.75% is the recommended latest time to replace a chain. It is not "only" 0.75%!

It all feels perfect because everything has bedded in together. The new chain exposes how badly worn the ring actually is. I am astonished that your cassette is not also giving problems. Take a very close look at the teeth, do they have burrs rolled over the edge? That material has been pushed from the face of the tooth, ie the tooth is no longer the shape it should be.
 

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
0.75% is the recommended latest time to replace a chain. It is not "only" 0.75%!

It all feels perfect because everything has bedded in together. The new chain exposes how badly worn the ring actually is. I am astonished that your cassette is not also giving problems. Take a very close look at the teeth, do they have burrs rolled over the edge? That material has been pushed from the face of the tooth, ie the tooth is no longer the shape it should be.

I’ll have a look. I do have a brand new cassette in its box as well to compare it to.

l’ve heard that some makes of the small cx front chainring wear very quickly indeed as they are ‘stamped’ out of sheet metal while SRAM use a different manufacturing method which increases durability somewhat.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,096
9,584
Lincolnshire, UK
.............l’ve heard that some makes of the small cx front chainring wear very quickly indeed as they are ‘stamped’ out of sheet metal while SRAM use a different manufacturing method which increases durability somewhat.
Of course, its a Bosch front ring. They will wear out more than twice as quickly as the the rings with twice (or more) as many teeth. It's not just the reduced number of teeth, it's the fact that the chain wrap is more as well.
 

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
Of course, its a Bosch front ring. They will wear out more than twice as quickly as the the rings with twice (or more) as many teeth. It's not just the reduced number of teeth, it's the fact that the chain wrap is more as well.

Useful info Steve.

If I choose to run the current drivetrain into the ground as an experiment, what will I eventually start to notice? Noise? Skipping?
Will something suddenly happen on a steep ascent ?
will there be a catastrophic failure or will it just gradually get more noisy and annoying?
at the moment all feels and sounds perfect after 1100 miles
 
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steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,096
9,584
Lincolnshire, UK
Useful into Steve.

If I choose to run the current drivetrain into the ground as an experiment, what will I eventually start to notice? Noise? Skipping?
Will something suddenly happen on a steep ascent ?
will there be a catastrophic failure or will it just gradually get more noisy and annoying?
at the moment all feels and sounds perfect after 1100 miles
I would expect that chain suck may be one of the first things you will definitely notice, which itself may cause a catastrophic failure if you are not fast enough to respond. Then (or even around the same time) shifting problems will become more noticeable. The chain will be pushing material from the tooth face and creating burrs on the outside edges. I doubt the burrs will stop the chain shifting, but they will delay shifting down and possibly up. You might get some delayed down shifting, where you click to move to a smaller gear , but nothing happens until you click for a second smaller one, then you get two shifts!. I'm starting to get that now at almost 1600 miles (I have burrs, but with a chain at less than 0.5%). Not sure about increased noise levels. I've never had a chain on past its replacement point for long enough to experience that. I doubt that you will snap a chain just because it has between 0.75% and 1% wear, but if you are going to have a snapped chain, then this is when it will happen!

I already have a replacement cassette and chain. I'm a tight sod, so I don't want to change too soon when it appears to be OK. But I know that a worn chain spreads wear to all the parts it meets. If I leave it too long, I may have to get a new ring as well. But at 1600 miles, I'm already doing 2.5 to 3 times better on mileage than I ever did with a 9 or 10-speed analogue bike. So a new cassette is on target and I'm up two chains! :) I'm going to bite the bullet and make the change. Just one more ride! :rolleyes:
 

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
I would expect that chain suck may be one of the first things you will definitely notice, which itself may cause a catastrophic failure if you are not fast enough to respond. Then (or even around the same time) shifting problems will become more noticeable. The chain will be pushing material from the tooth face and creating burrs on the outside edges. I doubt the burrs will stop the chain shifting, but they will delay shifting down and possibly up. You might get some delayed down shifting, where you click to move to a smaller gear , but nothing happens until you click for a second smaller one, then you get two shifts!. I'm starting to get that now at almost 1600 miles (I have burrs, but with a chain at less than 0.5%). Not sure about increased noise levels. I've never had a chain on past its replacement point for long enough to experience that. I doubt that you will snap a chain just because it has between 0.75% and 1% wear, but if you are going to have a snapped chain, then this is when it will happen!

I already have a replacement cassette and chain. I'm a tight sod, so I don't want to change too soon when it appears to be OK. But I know that a worn chain spreads wear to all the parts it meets. If I leave it too long, I may have to get a new ring as well. But at 1600 miles, I'm already doing 2.5 to 3 times better on mileage than I ever did with a 9 or 10-speed analogue bike. So a new cassette is on target and I'm up two chains! :) I'm going to bite the bullet and make the change. Just one more ride! :rolleyes:

Very Useful info. When the new chainring arrives I’ll put it on and also the new chain and see what happens. i’ll then be in a better position to see how badly worn the cassette is.

I’ve heard a few people try to reverse a worn small Bosch chain ring by flipping it over when putting on a new chain. Do you think this is a safe thing to do? You would get twice the life out of it.
 

Frankieboy

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
293
225
Basingstoke
I put one of these on mine about a year ago, done 1100 miles since. No sign of wear, hard as nails...no harder. I have the 19t.

They can be found on a well known auction site and no doubt may other web sites and LBS.

Connex e-bike sprocket for Bosch e-bike drives

High-quality manufacturing and hardening processes make the Connex sprockets for Bosch "new era" e-bike series extremely resistant. They are perfect for the "Active Line", "Performance Line" and “Performance Line CX” drive systems.
Designs: 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 22 teeth
 

Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
I put one of these on mine about a year ago, done 1100 miles since. No sign of wear, hard as nails...no harder. I have the 19t.

They can be found on a well known auction site and no doubt may other web sites and LBS.

Connex e-bike sprocket for Bosch e-bike drives

High-quality manufacturing and hardening processes make the Connex sprockets for Bosch "new era" e-bike series extremely resistant. They are perfect for the "Active Line", "Performance Line" and “Performance Line CX” drive systems.
Designs: 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 22 teeth

Nice one. Cheers!
I’ve already ordered the standard FSA 15t a few days ago but it could take a while to arrive. I’ve just seen the Connex one you mentioned and they have them on Amazon so I’ve just ordered one. Next day delivery as well.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,096
9,584
Lincolnshire, UK
Very Useful info. When the new chainring arrives I’ll put it on and also the new chain and see what happens. i’ll then be in a better position to see how badly worn the cassette is.

I’ve heard a few people try to reverse a worn small Bosch chain ring by flipping it over when putting on a new chain. Do you think this is a safe thing to do? You would get twice the life out of it.
I've never looked close up at a Bosch small ring, so I cannot recommend one way or the other. But if the teeth are symmetrical, ie the profile is the same no matter which side you look at, then you would probably be able to do it. I can't recall ever having a symmetrical front ring, although you would have thought that 1x rings are the ones to be symmetrical because they have no shifting to do. However, if you think about the duty that the ring has, the teeth have to carry the load whilst allowing the chain to come in at different angles. I know the chain has quite a bit of flex, but it would help if the chain tooth was chamfered in some way. It would only have to be chamfered on one side (edit: I mean both sides of the leading face, but not either side of the trailing face) , so maybe the gear cannot be flipped and work the same way after all. But I'm guessing because I don't really know.
 
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Beekeeper

🍯Honey Monster🍯
Aug 6, 2019
1,751
2,199
Surrey hills
I've never looked close up at a Bosch small ring, so I cannot recommend one way or the other. But if the teeth are symmetrical, ie the profile is the same no matter which side you look at, then you would probably be able to do it. I can't recall ever having a symmetrical front ring, although you would have thought that 1x rings are the ones to be symmetrical because they have no shifting to do. However, if you think about the duty that the ring has, the teeth have to carry the load whilst allowing the chain to come in at different angles. I know the chain has quite a bit of flex, but it would help if the chain tooth was chamfered in some way. It would only have to be chamfered on one side (edit: I mean both sides of the leading face, but not either side of the trailing face) , so maybe the gear cannot be flipped and work the same way after all. But I'm guessing because I don't really know.

The new one arrived today. This one is supposed to be better made and a lot tougher.

looks identical if you flip it over. I can’t see any difference at all in the angle of the teeth or anything else apart from the writing.

50454AF0-EB71-4536-8030-1843A5D73D41.jpeg
AF8F893F-ED0B-439D-AF65-48FA0976065F.jpeg
 

Kaelidoz

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Apr 29, 2018
312
304
Belgium
I agree, it feels fucky with a new chain it simply means that your cassette or maybe both your chainring and cassette are worn-out. Assuming they're the same length.

Don't wait too much, even just a chain skip with a bad timing can fuck you up badly. It can also pop off or just snap...
 

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