Improving balance

[Gyre]

No it's not.
Whatever bike you practice on most will yeild the same results whether FS, front sus or fully rigid.

You state that as fact and your experience is what it is, but it doesn't jive with my lived experience. If I'm being very smooth with my inputs, then in that case the difference is negligible as long as I can keep things slow and smooth. But when I'm not so smooth and need to make quick adjustments, I've always found FS bikes to be easier to fall behind on and more difficult to stabilize. I originally learned on a road bike, but having done both for many years, I'm glad I didn't have FS when I was picking it up for the first time.

On an FS bike you can actually use the suspension to save the bike from flopping to one side. Simply preloading the bike's suspension to reset the balance.

I'll admit I haven't deliberately tried preloading to recover and will give that a whirl.

 

[Gary]

You state that as fact and your experience is what it is, but it doesn't jive with my lived experience.

Yeah. I stated it as fact simply because that's what it is.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with your "lived experience"

Personally my experience means I can track stand either stood up or seated for at least 10mins+ at will on pretty much any bike including not touching the brakes at all and trackstand albeit for a shorter length of time one handed and no handed both stood up and seated. I've also taught quite a large number of riders to trackstand over the years. Would that qualify as lived? IDK? But there's also barely a day goes by I don't trackstand on a bike at some point.
Like you I also learned on a roadbike. A, 23" racer bought by my dad to 'grow into' when I was about 8yrs old back in the 70s. At 5'11" a 23" roadbike is still too big for me 40 odd years later. I also learned to wheelie the whole journey to school and back on that bike.

Bikes are awesome. An awful lot of folk make up excuses for sucking at bikes. Often blaming the bike or claiming its the wrong type of bike etc. The harsh reality is it often has very little to do with the bike at all but absolutely tons to do with not actually riding bikes enough.

 

[Zimmerframe]

An awful lot of folk make up excuses for sucking at bikes. Often blaming the bike or claiming its the wrong type of bike etc. The harsh reality is it often has very little to do with the bike at all but absolutely tons to do with not actually riding bikes enough.

My bikes are rubbish. I fall off and the simple fact is, if I didn't have them, I wouldn't - so the blame lands squarely at the feet of the bikes....

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Yeah. I stated it as fact simply because that's what it is.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with your "lived experience"

Personally my experience means I can track stand either stood up or seated for at least 10mins+ at will on pretty much any bike including not touching the brakes at all and trackstand albeit for a shorter length of time one handed and no handed both stood up and seated. I've also taught quite a large number of riders to trackstand over the years. Would that qualify as lived? IDK? But there's also barely a day goes by I don't trackstand on a bike at some point.
Like you I also learned on a roadbike. A, 23" racer bought by my dad to 'grow into' when I was about 8yrs old back in the 70s. At 5'11" a 23" roadbike is still too big for me 40 odd years later. I also learned to wheelie the whole journey to school and back on that bike.

Bikes are awesome. An awful lot of folk make up excuses for sucking at bikes. Often blaming the bike or claiming its the wrong type of bike etc. The harsh reality is it often has very little to do with the bike at all but absolutely tons to do with not actually riding bikes enough.

Sounds like you have really great balance! Mine has improved doing my figure eights on my sloped driveway. I'm sort of grounded from saddle sores since Dec 1st so starting to work on balance standing up. I rode observed trials years ago and much of that balance translates to my mtn biking today at age 72. But I do notice in slow going that I wander much more than my fellow riders, causing me to work so much harder I think. Some of that is the bad habit of not looking ahead enough and working on that. We had a female expert trials rider here in the 70's that had the more incredible balance and could climb all over the bike, headstands, etc while stopped....Debbie Evans. Any pointers on balance from you are much appreciated. I didn't start into mtn biking until I was 68 and so track stands on bikes are something I'm working on. And it does translate into much more stability in the rocky technical uphill sections as well as many other situations so I practice it whenever I ride and even now while I'm healing.

Oh I found this youtube lady, Roxie that really has a lot of tutorials on track stands that have helped me. But I just don't seem to have the sense of balance that she does, lol.

 

[Gyre]

Yeah. I stated it as fact simply because that's what it is.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with your "lived experience"

Personally my experience means I can track stand either stood up or seated for at least 10mins+ at will on pretty much any bike including not touching the brakes at all and trackstand albeit for a shorter length of time one handed and no handed both stood up and seated. I've also taught quite a large number of riders to trackstand over the years. Would that qualify as lived? IDK? But there's also barely a day goes by I don't trackstand on a bike at some point.

Like you I also learned on a roadbike. A, 23" racer bought by my dad to 'grow into' when I was about 8yrs old back in the 70s. At 5'11" a 23" roadbike is still too big for me 40 odd years later. I also learned to wheelie the whole journey to school and back on that bike.

Bikes are awesome. An awful lot of folk make up excuses for sucking at bikes. Often blaming the bike or claiming its the wrong type of bike etc. The harsh reality is it often has very little to do with the bike at all but absolutely tons to do with not actually riding bikes enough.

I make no claim that I'm at or ever will be at your level, but we're talking about people learning to track stand for the first time, who definitely aren't going to be as smooth as either of us. You want to state that you can be just as good with FS as a rigid or road bike given enough time and practice? Fine, I can buy that. I don't buy the argument that the learning curve on a bike with no suspension is just as easy as a full suspension bike, particularly a long-travel bike. The more sloppy you are at the controls, the more the bike is going to move around its sag point, adding a layer of complexity. If I've experienced FS being more difficult to learn, others can have the same experience.

 

[B1rdie]

Roxie also suggests the Ryan Leech site ( like I’ve done) but, watching her could keep me awake for five minutes. The danger of learning trackstand watching Ryan is to fall asleep. Don’t sleep while trackstanding!!!! (Even more on downhills!!!!)

Trackstanding was on the first mtb book I ever read, the Ned Everend “ mtb like a pro”. He also had a drill that consisted in see who took more time to ride a short distance, the last to cross the line wins

 

[Gary]

Sounds like you have really great balance

I actually don't. My balance when standing/walking is below average at best. I just happen to love riding bikes so do it a hell of a lot. Probably 10hrs a, week minimum for the last 30 years. I
I don't enjoy walking though.

Ive only ridden trials motorbikes a little but when I did I enjoyed it and found my slow speed balance and other techniques from mtb transferred over fairly well. I kind of thought of it like DHing in reverse. Needing a good eye for the best line, searching for grip and weighting the tyres etc. And about the same level of commitment.
My throttle control isn't brilliant tho as I've honestly not really ridden motor cycles very often at all but one technique that confused my trials riding friends was that I could bunny hop trials bikes straight away not using the throttle or clutch at all but instead just the using mtb technique .

All my fundamental riding skills were gained pre youtube. It's great there are loads of video tutorials now but it can be confusing as hell with all the different ways each rider/presenter teached and how techniques they're teaching are broken down. Plus being a beginner/noob or learning a new skill you won't know if you're being taught badly or not.
1 to 1 teaching is a lot better. Even if it's not particularly structured it can yeik quicker gains as not everyone learns the same way and a good patient perceptive teacher can spot when you're improving, and correct issues when you're not.

 

[Gary]

Gyre. A well set up FS bike isn't going to wallow around. And any suspension movement isn't going to hinder the basics of balance any more than the snappier more rigid (twitchy) handling of a stiff road bike with 23mm tyres at 120psi.
I think you might be confusing how it felt (frustration?) for you transferring your skills from one type of bike to another.
I don't think of myself as any sort of master of trackstanding. Just pretty competent from years and years of doing it.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. @sdcoffeeroaster it does sound like you need to be looking ahead more.
Once you're competent you can shoe gaze or look around all you want but when learning you'll never get it if you don't look up and ahead. Same with wheelies n manuals

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Yeah. @sdcoffeeroaster it does sound like you need to be looking ahead more.
Once you're competent you can shoe gaze or look around all you want but when learning you'll never get it if you don't look up and ahead. Same with wheelies n manuals

Yes it's bad habit and have to remind myself on the trail constantly to break it. Now I'm fighting saddle sores and some sciatica too (new for me). Lots of stretches are helping the sciatica but off the bike for 20 days now because of one sore that continually comes back. Doc didn't want to lance it but it's still there as a small bump that I bet will come back on the first ride when I sit and I don't sit that much. I've tried all the usual "cures" (Ergon Core seat, lower dropper, buttr, bag balm, high end liners, many topicals people swear by, but staying off the bike finally became the only solution for me. I plan to ride again Jan1st and practicing balance, etc. now standing up only.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

I actually don't. My balance when standing/walking is below average at best. I just happen to love riding bikes so do it a hell of a lot. Probably 10hrs a, week minimum for the last 30 years. I
I don't enjoy walking though.

Ive only ridden trials motorbikes a little but when I did I enjoyed it and found my slow speed balance and other techniques from mtb transferred over fairly well. I kind of thought of it like DHing in reverse. Needing a good eye for the best line, searching for grip and weighting the tyres etc. And about the same level of commitment.
My throttle control isn't brilliant tho as I've honestly not really ridden motor cycles very often at all but one technique that confused my trials riding friends was that I could bunny hop trials bikes straight away not using the throttle or clutch at all but instead just the using mtb technique .

All my fundamental riding skills were gained pre youtube. It's great there are loads of video tutorials now but it can be confusing as hell with all the different ways each rider/presenter teached and how techniques they're teaching are broken down. Plus being a beginner/noob or learning a new skill you won't know if you're being taught badly or not.
1 to 1 teaching is a lot better. Even if it's not particularly structured it can yeik quicker gains as not everyone learns the same way and a good patient perceptive teacher can spot when you're improving, and correct issues when you're not.

I was riding about 50 miles a week the past year of so but saddle sores that just won't go away have made me cut back and finally take a month off the bike (that's up Jan 1st). Wish I had jumped into mtn bikes in the 80's when I saw it taking off here (rode trials in the 70's) and I'd have 40 yrs of riding instead of 4 now, lol. I'm a late bloomer when it comes to mtn bikes and road an analog one for 2st two years. But it was so very hard to keep up with the more fit younger ones uphills without going way over my max heart rate and the ebike (mostly ECO) cures that. I don't try to stay with them on the downhills. I had one bad crash 2 years ago where I washed out on a 20 mph gentle but very narrow corner that broke my collar bone, 2 ribs and shoulder blade. And it was totally unexpected but I was not paying attention for sure. Now if something scares me I realize I don't have the skills for that particular section and will not ride it until I do. And at age 72 I do have lots of armor to protect me better too.

 

[Gyre]

Now I'm fighting saddle sores and some sciatica too (new for me). Lots of stretches are helping the sciatica but off the bike for 20 days now because of one sore that continually comes back. Doc didn't want to lance it but it's still there as a small bump that I bet will come back on the first ride when I sit and I don't sit that much. I've tried all the usual "cures" (Ergon Core seat, lower dropper, buttr, bag balm, high end liners, many topicals people swear by, but staying off the bike finally became the only solution for me.

I get that this is just one more buttr for your list, but this particular one worked well for me when I'd go on vacation and would go for long rides every day. Maybe it can help.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

I get that this is just one more buttr for your list, but this particular one worked well for me when I'd go on vacation and would go for long rides every day. Maybe it can help.

Thanks. I ordered some. I did see it's not water based so it may stay put longer and the reviews say as much. Oxy 10 seems to help heal it to a point but the pea like bump never seems to dissolve completely. At least not in 20 days but doesn't hurt either. I am dying to ride but promised I would wait and the muddy condition here in SoCal make it easier staying off the bike for now.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

What those under 6'+ dont realize is when us giants sit on the bike and look down, especially at the start of a slope, its a bit like peering over the edge of the empire state building. Talk about daunting