I'm trying to make some charts please give me some bike info

[Kangr]

I'm thinking of making some charts to help people find the relevant info when looking to make a new bike purchase.

the charts I'm thinking of are

1. battery mounting - how easy is it to swap
2. weight
3. motor type
4. suspension

IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT ALL THE INFO FOR YOUR BIKE, JUST GIVE ME THE INFO YOU DO HAVE PLEASE.

there are probably more that would be useful to. so if you think of something please let me know.
Now if you could give me the info of your bike, what make and model it is.

Whether its battery is

• internal fixed (can't be removed)
• integrated (internal but removable)
• integrated but using a external battery (external battery fits inside the frame)
• external.
• capacity (if the bike can take two battery's like the focus please list the capacity for the main battery then the capacity for the add on pack.

It would also be helpful if you could tell me how easy it is to remove.
Don't know what the correct terms are for some of the above so if you could point me in the right direction there that would help, thanks.

Weight
How heavy is your bike and what size it is. Ideally this would be its stock weight without any mods. if you have changed components please let me know.
If like the focus it can have a separate battery add on can you list it with both weights one without the battery and one with the battery added please.

Motor
Which motor system does your bike use.

Suspension
travel back/front (example 150/160) in mm please
system used (example horst link, dw or single pivot)
Intended use Trail , Enduro or DH (dont know how were gonna clarify this one)

if there are more subjects you think it would be helpful to have a chart for please let me know.
As each subject gets added or refined I will update this post.
Thanks

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Intended use? Or something similar
XC
Trail
Enduro
DH

 

[Kangr]

Intended use? Or something similar
XC
Trail
Enduro
DH

that could also be linked in with suspension travel.

 

[steve_sordy]

Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
Internal fixed 378Whr + 378Whr TEC pack
20.4kg, excl pedals
Shimano Steps
Trail
150 F&R

 

[Kangr]

Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
Internal fixed
20.4kg
Shimano Steps
Trail
150 F&R

another good point this brings up is battery capacity

 

[steve_sordy]

another good point this brings up is battery capacity

My response has been edited.

 

[Kangr]

My response has been edited.

Steve is that weight with both or just the internal?

 

[steve_sordy]

Steve is that weight with both or just the internal?

Just the internal. The TEC pack battery weighs 2.27kg

On a broader note, I believe that you should consider taking some time to decide exactly what information you need and then return with a finished questionnaire.

 

[Kangr]

Just the internal. The TEC pack battery weighs 2.27kg

On a broader note, I believe that you should consider taking some time to decide exactly what information you need and then return with a finished questionnaire.

Possibly but im likely to go over the top and ask way more questions than we need answers for and things nobody wants to know. it could also become so big that it would be just a pain to answer.
this way ive kept it to about 4 subjects and if there is anything that would be useful people can just add it.

 

[Gary]

Vitus E-sommet VR (Small)
22.6kg (with pedals* and very heavy DH tyres/tubes**)
Shimano Steps E8000
External 504w battery (V. easily removed)
165/170mm travel (Enduro geometry)
horst link

*simply swithching out the tyres for 2.5/2.3 exos run tubeless brought the bike down to 21.4kg
**manufacturer weights NEVER include pedals so remove 0.4-0.5kg from any manufacturer stated weights

 

[mark.ai]

Lapierre Overvolt AM 927i
500Wh integrated Snake Battery (easy to swap in & out)
24.9kg for XL frame (when I first measured it closest to stock - but I had swapped saddle, bars & added pedals. Also, I know that the stock tubes in it then weighed 340g each!!)
Shimano STEPS E8000
160mm travel front & rear (not actually measured the rear but believe that's right)
AM stands for All Mountain I think
Suspension is a 4 bar linkage system maybe? (And not sure on this really, even after checking this: The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems)

 

[Kangr]

Lapierre Overvolt AM 927i
500Wh integrated Snake Battery (easy to swap in & out)
24.9kg for XL frame (when I first measured it closest to stock - but I had swapped saddle, bars & added pedals. Also, I know that the stock tubes in it then weighed 340g each!!)
Shimano STEPS E8000
160mm travel front & rear (not actually measured the rear but believe that's right)
AM stands for All Mountain I think
Suspension is a 4 bar linkage system maybe? (And not sure on this really, even after checking this: The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems)

im looking at the shimano overvolt myself. What do you make of this bike?

 

[mark.ai]

im looking at the shimano overvolt myself. What do you make of this bike?

I like it For me it is great - does everything I could need. The Shimano motor & system is good. I like the integrated battery, both for looks and the way the battery is protected - no need to worry about mud getting into connections.

From what I read and see about other EMTBs there are so many good ones. But I'd be hard pressed to think of which ones I'd consider swapping mine for.

One problem is that if you charge the battery on the bike and leave it charging once it is at 100% then it actually starts discharging again ... Several people have mentioned it on the forum now and I've tested it myself. So if you want to charge your battery with it still in the bike then that is a downside for sure! But I always charge it separately indoors, so not a problem for me.

 

[Welshrobinireland]

Scott e genius 710 medium
150mm f&r. Fox 34 front fox rear
Says 27kg on the frame of the bike but have never weighed it myself says 24kg on website?
504 integrated shimano battery, easyish to remove
Shimano e8000 steps motor

 

[Tim29]

Fantic Integra 180
65 deg head angle
73 deg seat post
42mm offset forks 2019, 51mm 2018
165mm cranks
630 wh battery, 1 Allen bolt removal
180mm travel front rear
1x8 eagle cassette
51.8lbs
Integra link rear suspension
Good all around bike that can tackle serous enduro riding and terrain parks, cons, 2019 updates with Mavic wheels which been proven to take a beating but there to narrow for for a true enduro bike
29x30.5mm front and 27.5x34 rear.
The bike is well rounded with 29x35 front and 27.5x40 rear

160 integra race
630 wh battery
65deg head angle
73deg seat post
42mm offset forks
160/160 travel.
1x11 eagle cassette
49.5lbs
Great all around bike that quick on enduro trails turns well and is very stable at speed. My personal all around favorite Ebike.

Bulls FS3 27.5+
68.5 deg head angle
72 deg seat tube
650 wh battery, lever actuated removal with key lock
150/150 travel,
170mm frank arms
1/11 cassette for 2018 up earlier models 2x8
Good trail bike, rides well on tight trails, not stable at speed, stock tires are to light duty for bike can’t be ridden even slightly aggressive in stock form.
55.8lbs
Pivot Shuttle.
66 deg head tube
73 seat tube
150/140 travel DW LINK
500wh Integrated battery timely to remove.
165mm crank arms
42mm offset forks
27.5 x 2.8 tires front rear on 40mm internal wheels
Good all around play bike, not enough rear travel for serous enduro riding.
Very playful and light.

 

[Kangr]

Fantic Integra 180
65 deg head angle
73 deg seat post
42mm offset forks 2019, 51mm 2018
165mm cranks
630 wh battery, 1 Allen bolt removal
180mm travel front rear
1x8 eagle cassette
51.8lbs
Integra link rear suspension
Good all around bike that can tackle serous enduro riding and terrain parks, cons, 2019 updates with Mavic wheels which been proven to take a beating but there to narrow for for a true enduro bike
29x30.5mm front and 27.5x34 rear.
The bike is well rounded with 29x35 front and 27.5x40 rear

160 integra race
630 wh battery
65deg head angle
73deg seat post
42mm offset forks
160/160 travel.
1x11 eagle cassette
49.5lbs
Great all around bike that quick on enduro trails turns well and is very stable at speed. My personal all around favorite Ebike.

Bulls FS3 27.5+
68.5 deg head angle
72 deg seat tube
650 wh battery, lever actuated removal with key lock
150/150 travel,
170mm frank arms
1/11 cassette for 2018 up earlier models 2x8
Good trail bike, rides well on tight trails, not stable at speed, stock tires are to light duty for bike can’t be ridden even slightly aggressive in stock form.
55.8lbs
Pivot Shuttle.
66 deg head tube
73 seat tube
150/140 travel DW LINK
500wh Integrated battery timely to remove.
165mm crank arms
42mm offset forks
27.5 x 2.8 tires front rear on 40mm internal wheels
Good all around play bike, not enough rear travel for serous enduro riding.
Very playful and light.

Thanks for the little overview of how each bike rides. nice touch

 

[Gary]

there to narrow for for a true enduro bike
29x30.5mm front and 27.5x34 rear.

I'd suggest you take a look at the rim widths the entire top 20 EWS mens field use and reconsider your logic.
Pay particular attention to the wheel choice (tyre and rim widths) of the wee Auzzie with the No1 plate

 

[Tim29]

I'd suggest you take a look at the rim widths the entire top 20 EWS mens field use and reconsider your logic.
Pay particular attention to the wheel choice (tyre and rim widths) of the wee Auzzie with the No1 plate

I suggest you may do the same, as very few enduro riders run anything more then a double down case tire.
Wire bead DH case tires you can get away with a narrower rim, and in most cases work better as heavy tire reeds narrower rim to flex,
But with a evo case folding weight tire not so much.
I take notice of what the top riders in USA are using in DH, but i pay way more attention to what the top enduro riders are doing as that’s who I’m racing against.
But more then both of those i am collecting data from our testing.
I have a pretty good test group and my neighbor and riding partner is Josh Bender.
He isn’t even in top 5 of the enduro test riders in speed but he can durability test like no other.
I have spent my whole life racing many diciplines and one thing i have learned in every sport, just because a bulk of winners are using it doesn’t make it the best choice.
Gary, one thing you don’t know about me is I’m not a weekend warrior internet book reading nerd. I’m a data test whore!!
I have equipment to test things that most only dream of having.
Like stalker stats, litpro, on board data logger, shock logger, g meter.
I have Terabites of data collected from a solid test bed of riders.
And it all shows that with evo weight tires 29x35 and 27.5x40 is faster and pulls more corner g’s then 29x27-27.5x34.
And faster then 27.5x 30 front and rear
And 29x2.5 front on 35 and 27.5x2.6 on 40 rear are faster in chunky as well as hero dirt. But Consoderably faster on loose marbles.
But the one thing i have found in 35yrs of racing is the rider gets comfortable with a setup and he will go winning speeds as he is comfortable.
But when you get a rider comfortable on the fastest combo, he becomes a legend!
At 54yrs old i don’t have the eye site and reflex speeds of a kid in his 20’s, so i Need the fastest, most forgiving platform to be able to compete with them.
So you don’t have to agree with my data that’s your choice.
But just keep in mind your disagreeing with 100’s of hours in testing in different bikes and riders all in pro or pro am categories from graftin Mesa,Moab,Sadona, northstar, mammoth, Georgetown to Downieville. Not just some internet keyboard jokey who likes to stir the pot or follow a fad!

 

[Gary]

100’s of hours in testing in different bikes and riders all in pro or pro am categories from graftin Mesa,Moab,Sadona, northstar, mammoth, Georgetown to Downieville.

What has this got to do with what the top EWS riders are running?
How many of those venues have held an EWS round?
How many US riders are in the EWS top 20? (2. Rude and Mitch)

Wire bead DH case tires you can get away with a narrower rim, and in most cases work better as heavy tire reeds narrower rim to flex, But with a evo case folding weight tire not so much.

What do you mean by "get away with"? not puncture? or still manage to grip/ride well/fast enough?

I take notice of what the top riders in USA are using in DH, but i pay way more attention to what the top enduro riders are doing as that’s who I’m racing against.

What do you mean "racing against"? You're racing Pro? at 54? on a regular enduro bike?

But more then both of those i am collecting data from our testing.

Who is "our". (who are you testing for? you mention many different brand tyres here)

Gary, one thing you don’t know about me is I’m not a weekend warrior internet book reading nerd. I’m a data test whore!!

No. you already told me that.

Like stalker stats, litpro, on board data logger, shock logger, g meter.
I have Terabites of data collected from a solid test bed of riders.
And it all shows that with evo weight tires 29x35 and 27.5x40 is faster and pulls more corner g’s then 29x27-27.5x34.
And faster then 27.5x 30 front and rear
And 29x2.5 front on 35 and 27.5x2.6 on 40 rear are faster in chunky as well as hero dirt. But Consoderably faster on loose marbles.

This makes a ludite like Sam Hill's achievements over the past three seasons on sub 30mm rims and 2.5ish tyres all the more impressive, eh?

But when you get a rider comfortable on the fastest combo, he becomes a legend!

also see the same above EWS champ, racing down the steepest most difficult track in WC history (champery '07) in the wettest, slippiest conditions known to man, crashing and still finishing top 3. all on 2.5 DHFs

the one thing i have found in 35yrs of racing is the rider gets comfortable with a setup and he will go winning speeds as he is comfortable.

I agree

So you don’t have to agree with my data that’s your choice.

It's not that I don't agree with your data. it's that personal preference and rider style comes into it too much for your data to be valid (for every rider)

But just keep in mind your disagreeing with 100’s of hours in testing in different bikes and riders all in pro or pro am categories from graftin Mesa,Moab,Sadona, northstar, mammoth, Georgetown to Downieville.

Those places mean nothing to me. Neither does a US Pro or Pro am rider. it simply doesn't translate. Just like if I told you I'd collated data from expert racers at an enduro race in Scotland it wouldn't make sense to you.

Not just some internet keyboard jokey who likes to stir the pot or follow a fad!

Dude. We're all guilty of both of those traits.
We ride E bikes in the woods FFS
and spend our own freetime typing geeky shit into our devices about them


sorry for the derraillment @Kangr
all I wanted to get across here is that an enduro bike is still 100% legit with 25mm width rims and 2.5 tyres. infact plenty EWS rounds have been won using them.

 

[Kangr]

sorry for the derraillment @Kangr
all I wanted to get across here is that an enduro bike is still 100% legit with 25mm width rims and 2.5 tyres. infact plenty EWS rounds have been won using them.[/QUOTE]

No worries, i've found it quite humorous. my main problem is how do i get this info into my charts

 

[Tim29]

Gary, slick condition narrow rim works well, not enough tire bite to roll the tire over the side of the wheel.
The narrow rim smaller tire is fast in some places but it is not forgiving.
And yes at 54 i have done 6 Eduro races on ebike and have won all 6 races so far.
Graftin Mesa should mean something to you no matter where in the world you are. That’s where red bull Rampage course is.
Keep in mind here in states we don’t ride in mud often and those in south west get about 10 muddy days a year. Rest of the time it’s dry hard or dry loose. Or loamy.
If your in Zion it’s granite more grip then tarmac , Moab sand stone and very grippy,
But for those who just ride weekends and sporty the wider rims and larger tires are considerably more forgiving and predictable and Cush the ride so less rider fatigue.
I enjoy trail riding on chunky terrain on 2.8 and 46 internal wheels.
Just little slow for race.
But one thing about dhf is it’s a vet square profile tire and mounting it on a narrow rim rounds it and pulls side nobbies further out.
You should notice that schwalbe tire riders tend to run wider rims then maxxis tire riders.

 

[Gary]

And yes at 54 i have done 6 Eduro races on ebike and have won all 6 races so far.

Tim. You said you were racing against pro enduro racers but there's no such thing as a pro enduro racer. Pro enduro racer who enters an ebike race for fun maybe. So how many pros are in your Ebike category races and who are they?

You haven't told us who you are testing for either.

 

[Tim29]

Tim. You said you were racing against pro enduro racers but there's no such thing as a pro enduro racer. Pro enduro racer who enters an ebike race for fun maybe. So how many pros are in your Ebike category races and who are they?

You haven't told us who you are testing for either.

99% of the time i will never state who I’m testing for or with.
Unless they ask for public announcement.
But i will tell you that a bike company has looked at our data regarding there enduro and there taking bikes already shipped to dealers and replacing there wheel sets with wider front and rear wheels nation wide.
So there must be some compelling evidence behind it as that’s a pretty big expense to endure
But one thing i will say to you.
We spent months testing and i gave a brief analysis of our finding and you combatted that with hear say.
Another words look at what who is using what, but no data to argue your disagreement with our finding.
I actually feel like you just attacked the data because it was different then what you use.
But you yourself have never tried the wheel combos and can’t really be speaking any first hand knowledge to disagree on a factual or first hand basis.
Enough so that I’m prob never gonna offer up new data on future tests just because i don’t want to spend the time to rehash a baseless person speaking up with no data to offset months of testing!
If i felt you had a leg to stand on with your disagreement was based on months or years of testing then i would feel like you where valid and worth debating with.
But i have come to realize you just like to disagree with anything different then what you ride and you speak as to what was done a decade ago as if it still stands true with today’s new geometry bikes.

 

[Gary]

Another words look at what who is using what, but no data to argue your disagreement with our finding.
I actually feel like you just attacked the data because it was different then what you use.

You want data? simply look at EWS results. (like I suggested)
I'm not actually "attacking" anything Tim. I'm simply calling you out on what you said constitutes a "True" Enduro wheel/tyre set up

But you yourself have never tried the wheel combos and can’t really be speaking any first hand knowledge to disagree on a factual or first hand basis.

You have no idea what rim/tyre width combos I've tried. But yes. I do know which ones I prefer, and why. None of which is based on riding the sort of tracks or conditions you ride or "test" on.

Enough so that I’m prob never gonna offer up new data on future tests just because i don’t want to spend the time to rehash a baseless person speaking up with no data to offset months of testing!

That's extremely handy. (for you).

If i felt you had a leg to stand on with your disagreement was based on months or years of testing then i would feel like you where valid and worth debating with.

Please take the time to have a think about what I was actually disagreeing with.
"Mavic wheels which been proven to take a beating but there to narrow for for a true enduro bike"
It's utter bullshit!

But i have come to realize you just like to disagree with anything different then what you ride and you speak as to what was done a decade ago as if it still stands true with today’s new geometry bikes.

No. Tim. I understand modern mtb geometry very well. it's not a difficult concept to understand in the slightest. Long wheelbases, slack head angles and low(ish) BBs are extremely fashionable just now because of the stability gained when descending. I actually prefer slightly lower and slacker bikes than are currently available. Yes. I prefer a slightly shorter bike. for playfulness. and a firmer tyre (for the same reason). But that's it really.

99% of the time i will never state who I’m testing for or with.
Unless they ask for public announcement.

But you'll offer up wildly exaggerated stories of racing Enduro against Professional Enduro racers?