HAYES disc brake Dominion A4 - any experience?

[khorn]

I'm about to throw my SRAM Guide's over the shoulder, quite noisy and a pain in the butt to centre without this annoying sound when riding down the trail - I have read a lot about the HAYES disc brake Dominion A4 brakes and I'm curious. I know the easy solution would be to buy a set of Saints but I kind of like the micro adjust for centring the calliper and "Pinkbike" loves them - Any experience out there?

Pinkbike review:

Hayes

Karsten

 

[R120]

@Al Boneta has them

 

[khorn]

@Al Boneta has them

I would consider that yet another + for the Hayes!

Karsten

 

[mark.ai]

I've been trying one out as my front brake the past few weeks, after seeing Al's recommendation. It replaced a Guide RE, and I definitely prefer the Hayes Dominion. I'll replace the rear brake as well now that I'm convinced how much I like it In comparison the brake lever has a shorter movement until the brake first engages, and results in a shorter overall movement before fully on. The gap between the rotor and pads is miniscule - to start with I thought it would be impossible not to have the brake always rubbing. Even now occasionally going round corners I seem to hear rub (g-force?!)

The clamp on the handlebar takes up slightly less space, which works great for me. And the brake lever itself has a great shape & feel (for 1 or 2 finger use).

I tried using the micro adjust screws you mention, by following Hayes online manual & video tutorials for installation - but there was no way I could get it to work they way they suggested (I tried a few times). They basically say you push the brake caliper towards the rotor until the pads touch it, then lock that position with the micro adjust screws, and then use those screws to push the caliper very slightly away from the rotor again - but it didn't work out for me.

I found it much easier to adjust the caliper position the "standard" way, and the micro adjust screws do help with that anyway. The way I ended up doing it was:

• Extract the micro adjust grub screws enough so they couldn't affect caliper positioning
• Have the caliper mounting bolts loose enough that the caliper can move freely
• Squeeze the brake lever so the pads connect with the rotor and centre the caliper in the correct position.
• Keep the brake lever squeezed and tighten the caliper mounting bolts enough to hold the caliper in position (but not to torque yet)
• Now tighten the micro adjust grub screws just until they bite - so they now indicate the exact position the caliper is in
• Release the brake lever
• Test rotating the wheel and see if there is any rub between rotor and pads
• The micro adjust grub screws can now be used for any small adjustments you want to make to the caliper. Loosen the caliper mounting bolts, adjust the micro adjust grub screws to move the caliper in or out, push the caliper hard against the screws and it will be in the now slightly adjusted position, where you can tighten up the caliper bolts again.

 

[khorn]

I've been trying one out as my front brake the past few weeks, after seeing Al's recommendation. It replaced a Guide RE, and I definitely prefer the Hayes Dominion. I'll replace the rear brake as well now that I'm convinced how much I like it In comparison the brake lever has a shorter movement until the brake first engages, and results in a shorter overall movement before fully on. The gap between the rotor and pads is miniscule - to start with I thought it would be impossible not to have the brake always rubbing. Even now occasionally going round corners I seem to hear rub (g-force?!)

The clamp on the handlebar takes up slightly less space, which works great for me. And the brake lever itself has a great shape & feel (for 1 or 2 finger use).

I tried using the micro adjust screws you mention, by following Hayes online manual & video tutorials for installation - but there was no way I could get it to work they way they suggested (I tried a few times). They basically say you push the brake caliper towards the rotor until the pads touch it, then lock that position with the micro adjust screws, and then use those screws to push the caliper very slightly away from the rotor again - but it didn't work out for me.

I found it much easier to adjust the caliper position the "standard" way, and the micro adjust screws do help with that anyway. The way I ended up doing it was:

• Extract the micro adjust grub screws enough so they couldn't affect caliper positioning
• Have the caliper mounting bolts loose enough that the caliper can move freely
• Squeeze the brake lever so the pads connect with the rotor and centre the caliper in the correct position.
• Keep the brake lever squeezed and tighten the caliper mounting bolts enough to hold the caliper in position (but not to torque yet)
• Now tighten the micro adjust grub screws just until they bite - so they now indicate the exact position the caliper is in
• Release the brake lever
• Test rotating the wheel and see if there is any rub between rotor and pads
• The micro adjust grub screws can now be used for any small adjustments you want to make to the caliper. Loosen the caliper mounting bolts, adjust the micro adjust grub screws to move the caliper in or out, push the caliper hard against the screws and it will be in the now slightly adjusted position, where you can tighten up the caliper bolts again.

Thanks Mark for a very comprehensive feedback on them and to be honest one of the sole reasons why I want to get rid of the Guides are the fact that they do easily rub. It conserns me that you are saying that the Hayes also are a bitch to centre in order to prevent rubbing - Are you using them with the Hayes specific brake disk?

Karsten

 

[mark.ai]

Thanks Mark for a very comprehensive feedback on them and to be honest one of the sole reasons why I want to get rid of the Guides are the fact that they do easily rub. It conserns me that you are saying that the Hayes also are a bitch to centre in order to prevent rubbing - Are you using them with the Hayes specific brake disk?

Karsten

Yep I'm using a Hayes D Series rotor, which seems good - I believe these are slightly thicker than other rotors? Might account for the initial tightness, but maybe more resistant to vibration.

I didn't find the caliper harder to centre than other disc brakes I've used, just it wasn't any easier either. And their suggested method didn't work for me, but maybe it would for someone with more experience - like @Al Boneta . I also noted that while the mounting bolts/nuts/washers for the Guide RE allows the caliper to rotate freely for alignment if needed, the Hayes Dominion installation doesn't have that freedom and relies on all the mounting surfaces being true. I don't know what the manufacturing tolerances are for these - but anyway for me it all worked fine and everything seemed aligned properly.

And I've only tried it on one brake so far (the front), so I don't know if they would all be exactly the same.

I have found my Guide RE's would rub slightly after stopping braking sometimes. I'd need to brake again and release and it would generally stop. I guess that is down to the pistons not always retracting enough? Maybe becoming stickier as they get older?

 

[khorn]

Yep I'm using a Hayes D Series rotor, which seems good - I believe these are slightly thicker than other rotors? Might account for the initial tightness, but maybe more resistant to vibration.

I didn't find the caliper harder to centre than other disc brakes I've used, just it wasn't any easier either. And their suggested method didn't work for me, but maybe it would for someone with more experience - like @Al Boneta . I also noted that while the mounting bolts/nuts/washers for the Guide RE allows the caliper to rotate freely for alignment if needed, the Hayes Dominion installation doesn't have that freedom and relies on all the mounting surfaces being true. I don't know what the manufacturing tolerances are for these - but anyway for me it all worked fine and everything seemed aligned properly.

And I've only tried it on one brake so far (the front), so I don't know if they would all be exactly the same.

I have found my Guide RE's would rub slightly after stopping braking sometimes. I'd need to brake again and release and it would generally stop. I guess that is down to the pistons not always retracting enough? Maybe becoming stickier as they get older?

As a matter of fact I'm actually happy with the braking performance of the Guide RE but I have found that I have to adjust them all the time to be rub free and I simply HATE this rubbing noise when riding along. In dry they are mostly quiet but in the wet they are LOUD with stock brake pads. Another annoying thing is that the brake disks are soft like butter and they warp easily and it seems like I have to truing them all the time. As a matter of fact I think it has nothing to do with disk thickness if they are more prone to rub or not, I do believe that it has to do with the design of the brake master where some systems retract the pistons more when the brakes are not applied. I have never had any rubbing issues with Shimano brakes. Right now I'm biased between Saint, XTR 4 pot or the Hayes

Karsten

 

[Al Boneta]

My endorsement is purely anecdotal like any personal recommendation
I love my Hayes Dominion brakes. I get all the power of Saints but better modulation like Sram. The lever feel is amazing and I haven’t had to bleed them since I installed them.

 

[khorn]

My endorsement is purely anecdotal like any personal recommendation
I love my Hayes Dominion brakes. I get all the power of Saints but better modulation like Sram. The lever feel is amazing and I haven’t had to bleed them since I installed them.

Thanks Al, your feedback means a lot and Hayes it will be.

Karsten

 

[khorn]

My endorsement is purely anecdotal like any personal recommendation
I love my Hayes Dominion brakes. I get all the power of Saints but better modulation like Sram. The lever feel is amazing and I haven’t had to bleed them since I installed them.

@Al Boneta If you don't mind then I have a few questions regarding installation:

1. Do you think that the provided brake hoses are long enough for a Levo FSR MY2018?

2. If the answer to the above is no, do you then know if the Shimano Banjo will fit the Hayes? I cannot find anything online about the type of Banjo that will fit.

3. Do you know if the Shimano or SRAM bleed kit(I have both) will work with Hayes or do I need to also buy the Hayes specific kit?

Thanks

Karsten

 

[Al Boneta]

1. Yes they are long enough

2. No you have to use the Hayes Banjo that are supplied with the brakes

3. You need the Hayes bleed kit

 

[khorn]

1. Yes they are long enough

2. No you have to use the Hayes Banjo that are supplied with the brakes

3. You need the Hayes bleed kit

Hayes Dominion front and rear brakes are now ordered from Bike24 and will be installed next weekend - @Al Boneta do you by any chance know what the thread is where you screw the bleed fittings into the calliper and master, is it M5 or M6?

I find it stupid to buy a bleed kit that cost almost €50 = $60 when I have all the other tools needed apart from the adapters - I can easily make them myself as long as I know the thread, it is impossible to find any information anywhere on the internet unfortunately.

Karsten

 

[Al Boneta]

Hayes Dominion front and rear brakes are now ordered from Bike24 and will be installed next weekend - @Al Boneta do you by any chance know what the thread is where you screw the bleed fittings into the calliper and master, is it M5 or M6?

I find it stupid to buy a bleed kit that cost almost €50 = $60 when I have all the other tools needed apart from the adapters - I can easily make them myself as long as I know the thread, it is impossible to find any information anywhere on the internet unfortunately.

Karsten

I’ll have to take a look when I am in my workshop

 

[khorn]

I’ll have to take a look when I am in my workshop

Thanks Al, it is very appreciated.

Karsten

 

[khorn]

Just for reference, the bleeding ports on the new Hayes Dominion are M5 and any older SRAM/Avid bleeding kit will work perfectly as long as it is not the newer “bleeding edge” system.

Karsten

 

[khorn]

Installed and to be honest a BIG bitch to bleed - I’ll make an installation guide with pictures soon - Bottom line they are different to any other brake bleed I have ever done due to the dual bleed port. @Al Boneta is right about the caliper bleed procedure as air get trapped and pistons won’t retract enough if you don’t do it this way.

Karsten