Garmin users: Training Status and the Power Sensor

[DrStupid]

Is anyone getting accurate power sensor data from their Giant ebike, while connected to a Garmin cycling computer?

My 2021 Trance x will connect with a Garmin Edge830 and/or a Fenix6, no trouble, and most the information field's sent to the Garmin appear accurate, except the power sensor

The power sensor, is apperantly the only data field from the bike that's relative for Garmin to calculate Training Status.

I think I remember reading here, that some users were getting accurate data from the power sensor

I'm trying to figure out if this trouble is Giant model specific, or if compatibility between Garmin and Giant power-sensor data is universally fubar

Thanks in advance.

 

[DrStupid]

Ok, so a no answer, is not no for an answer

How about this, are any co-Garmin/Giant ebike users calculating cycling Vo2 Max? If so what power sensor are you using?

 

[skorp_jon]

I really don't know what should i do with power data. Just disable this sensor and ride your bike. I'm mostly using these ANT+ sensors for accurate battery percentage. I just don't care for other data.

 

[Kolskis]

Before yesterday I finally managed to buy a Garmin EPIX 2. Give me a minute, maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I can check it out for you. So far, I have not had time, and I have winter weather, and I don't want to ride ;-)
On tested 6x on last summer worked ok.

 

[skorp_jon]

They say that wattage number is wrong. I have no other alternative data to check if this is true or not.

 

[Kolskis]

I got evo display. I connect bike and tested on Garmin 6x. It seems to be a the same numbers( evo, garmin). But is this good enough numbers... i don't know. I will try on sunday with EPIX and post here.

 

[DrStupid]

Hey Kolskis, what year is your Giant?

I first noticed the rider power meter data was wacked, when the calculated calories burned during my daily ride dropped >75% with the power sensor connected to the Garmin. It seems, calories burned may be an intuitive indicator that the rider power sensor data has a reasonable accuracy. In my case, the rider power data from the 2021 trance x is way, way, low.

 

[Kolskis]

Trance E+ 2 PRO 2021 March i think.
But I've got new Smart Gateway Module. I even not tested yet my bike after recovery

 

[DrStupid]

Today, I was able to connect the Garmin to a used Levo SL, that was on consignment at my local Giant dealer. The power sensor data is much more realistic from the Spec.

This was a short cruise across a parking-lot on the Specialized SL.

This is from my Trance X e+, on fairly tough route. Clearly its bunk.

This is something to consider, when considering the value of a new purchase. I was able to impress this on my Giant dealer today. Perhaps if enough of us Giant users push, Giant will fix it.

 

[pdgs]

Hi @DrStupid ,

on my 2020 Trance the wattage data shows also very low watts on my garmin files.
I do not have access to power pedals to compare the data.
If you disable the assistance the data is quite accurate.
Because when I pedal more than 25km/h, my garmin files have records about 150-400 W depending on ascent.

Stay safe / ride safe
PD

 

[DrStupid]

BikeExchange-Jayco using Giant-branded GPS computer that isn't* a new Stages Dash

*spoiler alert: it almost certainly is

www.cyclingnews.com

Maybe Giants new computer will solve the trouble? Hope springs eternally.

 

[pdgs]

Hi!
Does anyone here using or having or knowing, if there are powerpedals with flats?
No accurate power records "sucks" ;-)
Thx!
PD

 

[DrStupid]

Hi!
Does anyone here using or having or knowing, if there are powerpedals with flats?
No accurate power records "sucks" ;-)
Thx!
PD

Their is one brand, SRM, they are cost prohibitive unless you seriously need that data!

 

[pdgs]

Their is one brand, SRM, they are cost prohibitive unless you seriously need that data!

Thx @DrStupid !

 

[SillyPosition]

Just came across this thread by googling. I actually have an orbea rise. But with epix 2 as well, wondering what can be done to get a proper vo2max calculations for my ride?

 

[DrStupid]

Just came across this thread by googling. I actually have an orbea rise. But with epix 2 as well, wondering what can be done to get a proper vo2max calculations for my ride?

Edit: whoops, just noticed your not on a Gaint. Really not sure about the Rise. If it's sending power-data and the data is formatted following the recognized standard- whatever that is lol. You should be able to simply add the power sensor to your EPIX.

So far, we are waiting for somebody to purchase the Giant Dash ride computer and see...

1) if power data is accurate on the ride dash device.

2) is the ride dash comparable to a Garmin for features such as Vo2max calculations

OR


3) Garmin/Gaint to make the data compatable.

I was told that Giant intentionally jacked up the power data so you, the customer would be forced to buy the Ride Dash, if you want power data.

There are also power meter devices, such as has been on training cycles for years; peddles, BB, cranks, chain rings- though a chain ring would measure rider.power+motor.power giving you supermans Vo2max . I think, and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, a single OEM crank with the power meter installed by SRM would be the cheapest way to get accurate power from a Giant ebike to a Garmin device.

 

[Carajean]

Edit: whoops, just noticed your not on a Gaint. Really not sure about the Rise. If it's sending power-data and the data is formatted following the recognized standard- whatever that is lol. You should be able to simply add the power sensor to your EPIX.

So far, we are waiting for somebody to purchase the Giant Dash ride computer and see...

1) if power data is accurate on the ride dash device.

2) is the ride dash comparable to a Garmin for features such as Vo2max calculations

OR


3) Garmin/Gaint to make the data compatable.

I was told that Giant intentionally jacked up the power data so you, the customer would be forced to buy the Ride Dash, if you want power data.

There are also power meter devices, such as has been on training cycles for years; peddles, BB, cranks, chain rings- though a chain ring would measure rider.power+motor.power giving you supermans Vo2max . I think, and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, a single OEM crank with the power meter installed by SRM would be the cheapest way to get accurate power from a Giant ebike to a Garmin device.

I purchased the L200. So far my miles and speed are way way off. Power is like 65k. I have a Giant Liv Embolden E+2 2020. If you want me to test anything else while I still have this let me know.

The sensors that show up for me
ANT: Power, Ebike, and Speed/Cadence
Bluetooth: Speed/Cadence

 

[DrStupid]

I purchased the L200. So far my miles and speed are way way off. Power is like 65k. I have a Giant Liv Embolden E+2 2020. If you want me to test anything else while I still have this let me know.

The sensors that show up for me
ANT: Power, Ebike, and Speed/Cadence
Bluetooth: Speed/Cadence

Hey thanks! Just recently had back surgery, so I'm not going to be in the saddle anytime soon.

In general, do you like the system? Does it calculate Vo2 max?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Carajean]

Hey thanks! Just recently had back surgery, so I'm not going to be in the saddle anytime soon.

In general, do you like the system? Does it calculate Vo2 max?

Thanks in advance.

It's funny I'm going in tomorrow for a small surgery that will keep me out the saddle for a week. I'm actually going to let the giant shop figure it out in the mean time. I didn't see Vo2 max though.

 

[saiph]

Hi guys, I just stumbled upon this thread while googling

I just purchased a Trance 2021 and one of the deciding factors was that Giant/Yamaha provides an "open system", i.e. lets you get power and cadence data via Ant+. While I'm not a racer, I do like having power data available, to get some indication of fitness level progression.

So, yeah...like already observed, the power data seems to be really low when recording with my Garmin Fenix :/
In the sensor's options on my Fenix, I can calibrate the power sensor. Though when attempting to do so, I always get an "Error -1" - whatever that means.

I just tried adding the sensors on my Wahoo Elmnt Bolt v2 - and interestingly enough, the sensor showed up as "Ebike". The Wahoo then asks you to add a distinct "Ebike" page to your data pages and on that, I see the battery capacity, the current assistance mode, the power, the cadence and so on.

To me it seems that the sensor reports much more data than just power and Garmin does not (yet?) support the proper protocol.

I'll do a test ride later on comparing the power data from both the Fenix and the Wahoo thingy, interested in the results...

 

[TomPugh12]

Hi guys, I just stumbled upon this thread while googling

I just purchased a Trance 2021 and one of the deciding factors was that Giant/Yamaha provides an "open system", i.e. lets you get power and cadence data via Ant+. While I'm not a racer, I do like having power data available, to get some indication of fitness level progression.

So, yeah...like already observed, the power data seems to be really low when recording with my Garmin Fenix :/
In the sensor's options on my Fenix, I can calibrate the power sensor. Though when attempting to do so, I always get an "Error -1" - whatever that means.

I just tried adding the sensors on my Wahoo Elmnt Bolt v2 - and interestingly enough, the sensor showed up as "Ebike". The Wahoo then asks you to add a distinct "Ebike" page to your data pages and on that, I see the battery capacity, the current assistance mode, the power, the cadence and so on.

To me it seems that the sensor reports much more data than just power and Garmin does not (yet?) support the proper protocol.

I'll do a test ride later on comparing the power data from both the Fenix and the Wahoo thingy, interested in the results...

Power data still reads low when using a Wahoo device unfortunately!

 

[Carajean]

Power data still reads low when using a Wahoo device unfortunately!

I'm wondering is it just a emtb thing... does this report accelerate for normal bikes and this should be removed from emtb bikes?

 

[Carajean]

Hi guys, I just stumbled upon this thread while googling

I just purchased a Trance 2021 and one of the deciding factors was that Giant/Yamaha provides an "open system", i.e. lets you get power and cadence data via Ant+. While I'm not a racer, I do like having power data available, to get some indication of fitness level progression.

So, yeah...like already observed, the power data seems to be really low when recording with my Garmin Fenix :/
In the sensor's options on my Fenix, I can calibrate the power sensor. Though when attempting to do so, I always get an "Error -1" - whatever that means.

I just tried adding the sensors on my Wahoo Elmnt Bolt v2 - and interestingly enough, the sensor showed up as "Ebike". The Wahoo then asks you to add a distinct "Ebike" page to your data pages and on that, I see the battery capacity, the current assistance mode, the power, the cadence and so on.

To me it seems that the sensor reports much more data than just power and Garmin does not (yet?) support the proper protocol.

I'll do a test ride later on comparing the power data from both the Fenix and the Wahoo thingy, interested in the results...

I'm unable to ride right now. Can you test just the ebike sensor? Or is that the only one you have? I want to test all sensors separately to see what data they report.

 

[saiph]

I'm unable to ride right now. Can you test just the ebike sensor? Or is that the only one you have? I want to test all sensors separately to see what data they report.

On my Garmin Fenix, I receive two distinct sensors: The Speed/Cadence one, and a Power sensor.
On my Wahoo Elemnt, I receive the Speed/Cadence sensor, and an additional "Ebike sensor".

It seems that distinct riding devices like my Wahoo Elemnt (Or Garmin Edge devices) can resolve the "Ebike" sensor, that seems to combine a bunch of data. On my Fenix wrist watch, the "Ebike sensor" can not be resolved, instead I just get a Power sensor.

On the Fenix, I can manually set the wheel circumference for the power sensor...I just did that, though I have no idea why the power sensor would need that information. Additionally, I set the sensor to ignore 0-values when averaging.

After a small 2km loop around the house, Strava is reporting an average of 90w while Garmin Connect reports 130w. This was only tested with the Fenix so far, no idea about the Wahoo yet.

 

[saiph]

Okay, results are in

I just did a longer ride with both my Garmin Fenix and my Wahoo Elmnt Bolt tracking. The Fenix was paired with both Cadence and Power sensor while the Wahoo was paired with Cadence and the „eBike sensor“

I uploaded both activities to Strava.

Fenix: Average Power 67w, normalized Power 79w
Wahoo: Avg 110w, NP 135w

That’s quite some difference.

I did some more research and found out, that Giant and Specialized use the LEV (Light electric vehicle) Ant+ protocol. This seems to be fairly new and supported by dedicated cycling computers - like the edge or my bolt. The multisport Fenix does not support the protocol, that’s why it only shows up as a generic „power sensor“, not as eBike.

 

[DrStupid]

It's funny I'm going in tomorrow for a small surgery that will keep me out the saddle for a week. I'm actually going to let the giant shop figure it out in the mean time. I didn't see Vo2 max though.

Good luck with surgery. Looking forward to your report on the Dash 200.

So far, no cycling computer has accurately captured Giant's power sensor data.

 

[saiph]

So far, no cycling computer has accurately captured Giant's power sensor data.

I just realized that we can calculate the exact rider input if we know the average assistance level, riding time and the consumed energy.

I can get the exact battery percentage with the eBike Data Field and also know the assistance level I rode in. I’ve done multiple rides now and it turns out that the reported power average you see in Garmin Connect is actually…accurate (within 10 watts).

Yet my HR is relatively high for the watts I seem to put in compared with the data on my Wahoo Kickr Indoor trainer…maybe MTB on trails is just more of a whole body workout compared to the typical riding on a road bike? No idea.

 

[DrStupid]

I just realized that we can calculate the exact rider input if we know the average assistance level, riding time and the consumed energy.

I can get the exact battery percentage with the eBike Data Field and also know the assistance level I rode in. I’ve done multiple rides now and it turns out that the reported power average you see in Garmin Connect is actually…accurate (within 10 watts).

Yet my HR is relatively high for the watts I seem to put in compared with the data on my Wahoo Kickr Indoor trainer…maybe MTB on trails is just more of a whole body workout compared to the typical riding on a road bike? No idea.

What happens to the calories burned when you do the same ride twice, once with the power sensor connected, once with it disconnected?

The calories burned estimation, should remain relatively stable regardless of the power sensor connection status, unless its data is bad.

 

[John Cap]

I just realized that we can calculate the exact rider input if we know the average assistance level, riding time and the consumed energy.

I can get the exact battery percentage with the eBike Data Field and also know the assistance level I rode in. I’ve done multiple rides now and it turns out that the reported power average you see in Garmin Connect is actually…accurate (within 10 watts).

....

In my case it is not accurate. For example it shows 20-30 watts, while I'm pedaling hard uphill with the lowest assistance (on purpose, for work out). Or it shows 2,000 watts (lol) going downhill. .... Readings are all over the place ....

 

[Rickster]

Just returned my Dash L200 , it was a total nightmare. Kept dumping the connections with the bike and constantly loosing sat con. Finally the display died, international service with Stages is poor. I will be loosing over $100 in previous duties, taxes and shipping both ways. Not going to buy the “Giant” compatible Dash again.