Fazua Evation, it’s been a while so do we think it’s a good idea?

[2unfit2ride]

Or a bit of a white elephant? Does a lower weight but less powerful motor cut the mustard in the age of more is better as far as eMTB‘s are concerned or is less than 2kg difference not worth the trade off?
I’d be interested to hear what you think given that everyone now seems concerned with the bloated weight of the current eMTBs.
cheers.

 

[Swissrider]

I could do with less power, and certainly less weight, but less range would be a pain. I have a 500 battery and frequently end a ride on single percent figures. If a battery/motor combination can give me the equivalent power of trail and last half a day. I would be interested. Of course one must remember that unless any bike performs well as an MTB, any motor is not going to make up for that.

 

[Eddy Current]

Fazua ebikes can go over 17 kgs on FS easily

Thats a 6 kgs save weight compared with the 23 kgs ebikes average

Now, even it’s a huge drop, I will not trade that power for that weight, but I like uphill flow and I’m not the kind of rider wich goes eco 90% of the time

But I would trade 2kgs for turbo mode anytime, and here’s where Spe has move first again, Fazua fall short, the new Spe motor is a bit heavier but I belive it can reach trail mode power wich is definitely enough for most of the riders, and the will able to launch sub20 ebikes on aluminum way cheaper than now.

Say goodbye to turbo modes, say hello to sub20 kgs handling. I think is a nice deal

Maybe this motor deserves his own thread, if I’m daydreaming I want somebody to wake me up

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Enter the Specialized 13kg CX version of the Creo.

If Specialized designers added full suspension to a Creo type frame, adjusted it to take mtb tyres it would increase its weight by under 3 kgs making it a possible sub 16kg mtb . The Creo already has the ability to slot in additional 160Wh batteries to extend the range. The Creo is IP67 rated so no more water and dirt ingress issues.
This is a no brainer folks.
Hopefully Specialized are working on this already

 

[Eddy Current]

@Kiwi in Wales do you know if it’s a bit more punchy than the Fazua?

Seriously, there’s a ton of ebikers that will sacrifice the turbo mode for less weight

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

@Kiwi in Wales do you know if it’s a bit more punchy than the Fazua?

Seriously, there’s a ton of ebikers that will sacrifice the turbo mode for less weight

I agree with you, some of us would be quite happy sacrificing Turbo mode.
More punchy than Fazua? Something to ask @Rob Hancill as he has ridden the Creo and I also think he rode the Fazua last year

 

[Tamas]

Fazua ebikes can go over 17 kgs on FS easily

Thats a 6 kgs save weight compared with the 23 kgs ebikes average

Now, even it’s a huge drop, I will not trade that power for that weight, but I like uphill flow and I’m not the kind of rider wich goes eco 90% of the time

But I would trade 2kgs for turbo mode anytime, and here’s where Spe has move first again, Fazua fall short, the new Spe motor is a bit heavier but I belive it can reach trail mode power wich is definitely enough for most of the riders, and the will able to launch sub20 ebikes on aluminum way cheaper than now.

Say goodbye to turbo modes, say hello to sub20 kgs handling. I think is a nice deal

Maybe this motor deserves his own thread, if I’m daydreaming I want somebody to wake me up

The Evation motor is 1,91kg the BB shell is 1,31kg so with 3,22kg +battery I can’t see the possibility of a huge weight saving. The E8000 motor is 2,8kg which is 0,4kg lighter than the Evation system without a battery. The only appealing thing is the removable battery/motor but personally, I don’t care too much about it. The 24T ratchet in the BB shell wouldn’t be my favorite thing either...
Put a less powerful E7000 motor in a light carbon frame (or limit the output of the E8000) with a 250Wh battery and it will be lighter than Fazua.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I agree with you, some of us would be quite happy sacrificing Turbo mode.
More punchy than Fazua? Something to ask @Rob Hancill as he has ridden the Creo and I also think he rode the Fazua last year

The eZesty I rode was 18.3KG. I didn't think that the weak motor and small battery was worth it to lose a few KG.

To me the Creo felt similar in power. But I didn't really test it off road, that's where you can really notice power differences.

I'd think that sub 16KG would be beneficial if we're looking at low powered ebikes, as losing just a few KG but halving the battery and motor power is, in my opinion, pointless.

 

[Eddy Current]

The eZesty I rode was 18.3KG. I didn't think that the weak motor and small battery was worth it to lose a few KG.

To me the Creo felt similar in power. But I didn't really test it off road, that's where you can really notice power differences.

I'd think that sub 16KG would be beneficial if we're looking at low powered ebikes, as losing just a few KG but halving the battery and motor power is, in my opinion, pointless.

Hi Rob

I don’t know how much weight will be saving a motor able to deliver some power like my Brose S alu in Trail mode at 60% ... thats plenty of power to me and I’m not by any mean a strong rider

But if it became smaller and lighter enough to built cheaper aluminum ebikes under 20kgs like i said, a lot of ebikers will be swap turbo mode for sub20 (and sub 6k ?) ebikes, hands down!

Matched with modulars batteries or extenders they can became really light (for ebikes) and easy to achieve ... probably I’m being to optimistic but desires work like this!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Put a less powerful E7000 motor in a light carbon frame (or limit the output of the E8000) with a 250Wh battery and it will be lighter than Fazua.

I thought the E7000 weighed the same as the E8000, but has the disadvantage that it's harder to strip down and repair ? So that's not going to give you any real world performance (distance advantages) or long term financial advantages.

If you're putting an E8000 in, why limit the output ? You can do that now with the settings - or is that what you mean for more range ? So you end up with a Focus without it's tech pack ?

That sounds grouchy .. ? Must have got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Hi Rob

I don’t know how much weight will be saving a motor able to deliver some power like my Brose S alu in Trail mode at 60% ... thats plenty of power to me and I’m not by any mean a strong rider

But if it became smaller and lighter enough to built cheaper aluminum ebikes under 20kgs like i said, a lot of ebikers will be swap turbo mode for sub20 (and sub 6k ?) ebikes, hands down!

Matched with modulars batteries or extenders they can became really light (for ebikes) and easy to achieve ... probably I’m being to optimistic but desires work like this!

Like I said some will and some won’t like losing Turbo.
Me? I need Turbo in my life and would quite happily add 5kgs to the bike to keep it especially if it had 120Nm on tap?

 

[Fivetones]

Clearly there’s a compromise to going lighter, like most design choices.

You see this in the lightweight, short travel, long and slack trail bikes spearing now too. Some might need a 15kg enduro bike but others might prefer a 12kg trail bike as that does most of what they want while also being more fun. I think the two discussions are related actually.

 

[Eckythump]

Focus built a Jam2 to 18kg for the e-enduro races with E8000 and 378wh so like @Tamas pointed out it kind of makes the Fazua pointless. More assistance & more battery for the same weight.

Anyhow, does removing Boost make the motor less powerful? I was under the impression maximum assistance remains the same it just alters the amount of effort the rider has to put in to achieve that level of assistance or is that just the motors like Bosch & Shimano that have variable assist?

 

[Tamas]

I thought the E7000 weighed the same as the E8000, but has the disadvantage that it's harder to strip down and repair ? So that's not going to give you any real world performance (distance advantages) or long term financial advantages.

If you're putting an E8000 in, why limit the output ? You can do that now with the settings - or is that what you mean for more range ? So you end up with a Focus without it's tech pack ?

That sounds grouchy .. ? Must have got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Yes, the E7000/8000 weighs the same. Limiting the E8000 is just theoretical I just compared them to the Fazua's less power in order to be able to run smaller battery without the temptation of running it down in 10 kilometers. My whole point was is that the Fazua system is not ay lighter than Shimano or the new Bosch, it's actually 0,4 kg heavier if you only look at the motor and BB and the rest depends on the size of the battery.

 

[Tamas]

Focus built a Jam2 to 18kg for the e-enduro races with E8000 and 378wh so like @Tamas pointed out it kind of makes the Fazua pointless. More assistance & more battery for the same weight.

Anyhow, does removing Boost make the motor less powerful? I was under the impression maximum assistance remains the same it just alters the amount of effort the rider has to put in to achieve that level of assistance or is that just the motors like Bosch & Shimano that have variable assist?

Absolutely, E8000's Trail mode max output is just as much as in Boost, only the necessary rider input is different to achieve it.

 

[Fivetones]

I think a step forward might come when a lighter/less powerful motor is combined with some kind of efficient CVT, replacing the gears too. You could also then make some more optimisations by having an auto mode for the whole lot.

Would make maintenance easier too.

 

[TonTonUB]

I wonder if Fazua Evation system is compatible with a rohloff hub ? Call me crazy, but i think it could be the top of the coolest thing i could imagine for a light E-mtb (big allergy to cassette, etc inside).

 

[Zimmerframe]

@paulmoir any idea of the compatibility of the E-14 with the Fazua. I know earlier in the year, it was only compatible with Bosch.

 

[TonTonUB]

@paulmoir any idea of the compatibility of the E-14 with the Fazua. I know earlier in the year, it was only compatible with Bosch.

You are right ! Rohloff compatibility with Fazua deserve E-14 shifting

 

[paulmoir]

You are right ! Rohloff compatibility with Fazua deserve E-14 shifting

No, the E14 can only be fitted to and will currently only work with the latest Bosch and Panasonic eBike motors.

 

[paulmoir]

I wonder if Fazua Evation system is compatible with a rohloff hub ? Call me crazy, but i think it could be the top of the coolest thing i could imagine for a light E-mtb (big allergy to cassette, etc inside).

No reason why you couldn’t use a Rohloff Speedhub - but only manual twist shift (the E14 electronic shifting is not compatible with the Fazua motor)

 

[Tooks]

If I was buying an e-Bike again tomorrow, I’d be seriously tempted by the Fazua concept.

I’ve tried a road bike fitted with one, and liked it, but I’m drawn by the ability to remove the battery and motor entirely and use it as a standard bike with a big storage space in the down tube.

I like my Focus Jam 2, don’t get me wrong, but it’s always a ‘tank‘ and sometimes I don’t want it to be.

 

[TonTonUB]

No reason why you couldn’t use a Rohloff Speedhub - but only manual twist shift (the E14 electronic shifting is not compatible with the Fazua motor)

Nice to read this, Paulmoir.
Btw, i must confess that your videos and guides (about the conversion you achieved on a turbo Levo) inspired me a lot, and still do
Every time i test an E-mtb, i project myself with the bike BUT only 'rohloff-ed' : your fault

 

[TonTonUB]

If I was buying an e-Bike again tomorrow, I’d be seriously tempted by the Fazua concept.

I’ve tried a road bike fitted with one, and liked it, but I’m drawn by the ability to remove the battery and motor entirely and use it as a standard bike with a big storage space in the down tube.

I like my Focus Jam 2, don’t get me wrong, but it’s always a ‘tank‘ and sometimes I don’t want it to be.

Woah ! Thank you so much, cause i didnt know this bike (focus jam²).
Sounds very interesting to me, and could perfectly fit my needs (ie rolling in the 'terres noires' from provence, 5 km from my home.).
This bike has just all the qualities i was looking for ! Argl ! I will have to resist to avoid insta-buy, evil you

I'd pray the 'force' to give me the will to wait for 2021 anouncements ... to get a 2020 with a fair price cut on this bike, or get an ep8 on the new model.

I'm just wondering : has anyone other models of E-mtb in mind ? (light batteries and under 20 kgs, with strong motors to use as shuttle mode).