EP8 range

[cappuccino34]

Fulgur Mula
I chose to change a few things on it, mostly because of the extremely wet nature of the places we ride mostly, but on the whole it's an incredible bike.

The EXT suspension is just unreal once it's set up. I always thought that the Fox factory stuff on the Giant was good (but then I was comparing it to my previous 20 year old 26" bike) but this EXT is on another level.

 

[cappuccino34]

I've redone the wiring so it's completely waterproof, and fully stripped and rebuilt the bike with a focus on waterproofing everything possible.

I've also fitted an AXS derailleur and 12 speed cassette, cushcores, OneUp bars, Shimano icetech discs and I will be fitting Magura MT7s (which I previously had fitted to my Giant because the original Code Rs on that bike were terrible).

The bike comes with a 500 main battery, and there's an optional extra 125 internal extender battery but I've removed that from my bike to reduce the weight up front and high up (it sits above the main battery tucked into the frame behind the head tube) and also because I wasn't happy with how they'd done the wiring. I'll redo it and make it so it's easy to pop in and out for the occasion when I want to do rides with big elevation or 50+ miles. I can get 50 miles and 5000+ feet out of the 500 battery, and bigger rides than that are unusual for me.

 

[torabora851]

Interesting, in this review the ep8 is the most effective motor, whereas bosh is less effective

 

[cappuccino34]

Interesting, in this review the ep8 is the most effective motor, whereas bosh is less effective

The trouble with 'tests' such as that is the thing that is the biggest variable is the human being sat on the bike. If you did four tests of the exact same bike you'd get four different results because humans are generally very poor at repeatability in random terrain environments, taking slightly different lines, inputting slightly different amounts of effort etc.

 

[cappuccino34]

I suppose ultimately, the best range over time will more come down to how you ride (cadence, power etc), how well your riding style suits the efficiency range of the motor and how well you look after your battery.

 

[urastus]

The trouble with 'tests' such as that is the thing that is the biggest variable is the human being sat on the bike. If you did four tests of the exact same bike you'd get four different results because humans are generally very poor at repeatability in random terrain environments, taking slightly different lines, inputting slightly different amounts of effort etc.

Well yes. I was the one to first post that video link; the first link to Sam's - well we just don't know his motives (who's paying him?). There are many variables, of course; they do say as much in the link I posted. Go to 14 mins 22 secs and judge for yourself - there does seem to be a clear "trend" Personally I'd be happy with shimano or bosch - I'm not sure that I'd be swayed one way or the other if I had the choice of either one in the same bike (mondraker crafty or mondraker dusk?) For me my options are limited to what is available from a good lbs.

I think I initially posted that link in response to the first link - people just believing whatever some youtubers say. I subscribe to sam's bikes and embn - but they both give me the shits sometimes when they are clearly being biased and trying to pass off a paid advertisement as an objective and unbiased review. There are lots of good channels that I believe you can trust - trail talk mtb and emtb videos for example are awesome.

 

[cappuccino34]

I suppose it ultimately comes down to what's important to the individual.

For me, serviceability and component availability were important because I'll be doing my own maintenance.

Bosch is currently the best mainstream motor overall I think, but they (and Shimano) have really bad warranty reputation. Bosch will cock on warranty claims saying that the maintenance schedule hasn't been followed, but they don't even have a published maintenance schedule anywhere. Even when specifically asked for one they came up with nothing.

Shimano aren't much better on the Warranty side of things, but if you have a good LBS willing to fight your corner it seems that they can sometimes get things done.

Specialized have frankly brilliant warranty support, but if they didn't have then nobody would buy their Brose-powered bikes because the motors are absolutely garbage. One of their dealers told me that they budget three motor replacements into the cost of the bike, which is almost unbelievable were it not for knowing so many people who have had several motor replacements.

 

[torabora851]

Well yes. I was the one to first post that video link; the first link to Sam's - well we just don't know his motives (who's paying him?). There are many variables, of course; they do say as much in the link I posted. Go to 14 mins 22 secs and judge for yourself - there does seem to be a clear "trend" Personally I'd be happy with shimano or bosch - I'm not sure that I'd be swayed one way or the other if I had the choice of either one in the same bike (mondraker crafty or mondraker dusk?) For me my options are limited to what is available from a good lbs.

I think I initially posted that link in response to the first link - people just believing whatever some youtubers say. I subscribe to sam's bikes and embn - but they both give me the shits sometimes when they are clearly being biased and trying to pass off a paid advertisement as an objective and unbiased review. There are lots of good channels that I believe you can trust - trail talk mtb and emtb videos for example are awesome.

In Sam's video, he tests motors in boost/turbo mode, whereas the bikeradar says it tests it in eco mode. Eco mode seems not good value as it basically shows which motor spends less power in the lightest mode. It is like the motor which doesn't support you has infinite effectiveness as it doesn't spend energy.

 

[urastus]

Eco mode seems not good value as it basically shows which motor spends less power in the lightest mode

Well, that depends on what you want out of your e bike. I've only tried boost for the fun of it. If I ride alone I'm rarely out of eco - it's enough to get me up the technical climbs here; climbs that I could never do pre emtb. I ride in trail mode if I'm with a friend. I don't understand your value statement. But really, again, I'm not fussed. I'd buy bosch or shimano. It really seems to be related to the tune though, doesn't it. For example giant faired poorly apparently because it gives more torque at low cadences. If that is so, it doesn't mean the yamaha is a less economical motor; it simply means it is giving more assistance at lower cadence than the other motors. More assistance uses some of the battery. Someone designed that tune just like they did in the shimano and bosch. If they're all on eco or boost it's just a ball park - they're not going to have the same tune. Given the same tune the differences are probably negligible and based on available torque and power output with small deviations to do with friction, battery quality etc. Tune is something we can change to suit our needs - I have a modified eco; it's lower than what was standard.

Sam's out to build up his subscriber base so that he can charge more to the manufacturers for his pseudo reviews. He has a mix of truth and biased advertising (as does embn). These are businesses. I think his video is just what it appears to be - a subscriber grab.

 

[cappuccino34]

I'm hoping to actually build a motor testing Dyno. Nothing too elaborate but enough to be able to make comparisons without the human or biased element. Probably test at three or four different cadences, whilst measuring input and output torque along with current.

I'm already working on something that requires a powered input and a loaded output, so adding torque measurements to it isn't much more work and means that I'll be able to test motor performance.

 

[torabora851]

I'm hoping to actually build a motor testing Dyno. Nothing too elaborate but enough to be able to make comparisons without the human or biased element. Probably test at three or four different cadences, whilst measuring input and output torque along with current.

I'm already working on something that requires a powered input and a loaded output, so adding torque measurements to it isn't much more work and means that I'll be able to test motor performance.

That is what actually I expected from ebike-mtb.com as the successor of ebike-mtb.com as they have a very technical approach to tests.

 

[Pivot]

Non-representative sample of two:
(i) Ducati MIG-S with E8000 and 500Wh battery
(ii) Ducati TK01RR with SP8 and 640Wh battery

On (i) I used to get comfortably 60km on one charge, theoretical range on the display was ~100km in eco mode.
On (ii) I get comfortably 100km on one charge. The display indicate theoretical ~170km range on eco.
Both bikes have diff frames, diff tyres, … alles, same rider.

 

[franciscoasismm]

E8000 con 0 problemas

 

[Pivot]

Interestingly, after 2,100km , 20 battery cycles and 96% battery health, my range shows 124km on Eco, with 73% charge

 

[franciscoasismm]

Curiosamente, después de 2100 km, 20 ciclos de batería y un 96 % de salud de la batería, mi rango muestra 124 km en Eco, con un 73 % de carga

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[/COTIZAR]
No te preocupes por esos datos, lo importante es seguir estos consejos.
https://www.mtbpro.es/afondo/consejos-para-cuidar-la-bateria-de-tu-ebike-y-alongar-su-vida-util
te mando una foto de la mia con casi 16000km y 83% de salud de la batería.
Salud

 

[1oldfart]

Interestingly, after 2,100km , 20 battery cycles and 96% battery health, my range shows 124km on Eco, with 73% charge

View attachment 95471
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To me all these numbers mean nothing. Test it, will it do that number? Please report if it is accurate or not. When you talk range please mention your weight.

 

[Pivot]

To me all these numbers mean nothing. Test it, will it do that number? Please report if it is accurate or not. When you talk range please mention your weight.

Fair point, my weight is just under 80kg. Also the indicative range is sensitive to effort given, assistance settings and terrain.

My settings are as below… my theoretical range is 170km on #1 Eco and I have done about 120km, but never tested from full to flat.
The other day I have done 40km hard riding on #1 Trail and when I got home I had 35% left, so I should be able to do 60km.
I hardly ever use #1 Boost, so I don’t have an opinion on that setting.