EMTB Manufacturer Weights

[Zimmerframe]

I should start by saying that I like my bike, it successfully gets me from A to B, despite my ineptitude, with a smile on my face, so what more could you want.

My bike, a Karma HT + XT, is stated as having a weight of 18kg's. Impressive for an E-bike with an aluminium frame and the only carbon being dust from the BBQ.

The only way I can actually make it weigh 18 kg in real life though is to remove the motor. So then it's just a heavy MTB setup to carry a spare battery for someone. I can also remove the wheels and tyres, but this seems to severely limit it's effectiveness on the A to B front, though it does make it easier to clean.

I keep checking the website and scrolling down to the bottom to find the part where it says "* this website is a work of fiction", but I can't scroll down any further.

I was reading some threads where there were some doubts on the weights of the YT Decoy. I wonder if the weight thing is just normal ? Pick a cool sounding number and that's what the bike weighs ? or are there wet and dry weights, ie, without motor and battery ? Hydrogen filled frame and tyres ?

If the whole sales pitch is based on fiction, why don't they suggest the bike also has "flight mode". "Three minutes of flight mode is available with your new Emtb. This is only available when leaping from a high altitude balloon. Warning: flight mode can only be used once"

 

[steve_sordy]

@Zimmerframe They are usually quoted as without pedals, but with tubes, and I believe for size Large. I would expect the bike to be within a fraction of a kilo, so I would not complain if it was within 0.1 kg of that, but I would if it was 0.25 kg more, as that is more than half a pound! I mean, these things are assembled from mass produced items. They must know the weight of them down to the gram.

On clockwork bikes people spend £1000 to save a kilo. Maybe folk would not be as prepared to do so for an emtb, but the costs are the same if they did.

How far out is your bike from the expected 18kg?

Do you suspect that the fitter has left a large wrench inside the down tube?

 

[Zimmerframe]

@steve_sordy Discounting my DHR/DHF tyres, over the original Maxxis Ikon's, Sealant and dropper post and some generosity thrown in for good measure, the bike weighs in at 21kg's (22.5 with) So 3kg's over the suggested weight. At my level of riding it doesn't make any difference, though I suspect if they sold precious metals and I'd ordered 18kg's and received 21kg's they'd have something to say about it.

From my end it is what it is and o2feel/Karma appear to have no customer support so it's irrelevant really and I like the bike as far as riding goes. I was more curious if this is normal for everyone.

If I do think about it I try to see it in a positive way, these are my theories.

I have a prototype E8000 motor in there with super dense copper windings and a possible 140mn of torque just waiting to be unleashed on a future firmware update.

The whole bike is a prototype and was a mish mash of shimano E8000 and a stealth install Fazua motor and battery. I just need to find the additional power button.

When, and if, I have a crash bad enough to snap the frame, I'll be delighted when all the smuggled diamonds fall out.

It's a hard tail and the extra 3kg's were purposely added to keep the bike firmly planted on the ground, in future editions of the bike this will be marketed as "Advanced Gravity Assisted Suspension Technology" , I'm sure if someone was bored enough they could juggle that around and come up with a sales acronym like "L.A.R.D" or something appropriate.

There's a second, in frame, battery that I've not yet discovered.

It has a pre-filled 3 litre in frame beer cask party bladder, with a drinking tube which auto deploys in the event of a catastrophic impact.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Zimmerframe I'm glad you can take it with a large sense of humour. An extra 3kg is urine extraction par excellence! I'd be spitting tacks!

 

[Zimmerframe]

@steve_sordy "urine extraction par excellence!" - I like that

I think their target market are people who walk into a bike shop and ask what to buy. In my case I was on the "rebound" from my Decathlon experience and stopped at the LBS with the theory that I'd be supporting my LBS if I bought from there. They only had the Karma as an option, I tried one, liked it. I checked on line that night and it was as if the bike didn't exist. Thinking (wrongly) that I'd get all the support I'd need, I went for it. I thought the weight was probably slightly optimistic. I think something like a carbon hardtail ridley weights something similar, but I was suitably naively impressed anyway and the thought of something that light did make me think WOW !

Normally, I would be just like yourself. But in this instance it feels like I'm in part of some fly on the wall Del Boy throw back experience. Each time I start getting myself wound up, I realise it's completely pointless and only detrimental to my own sanity. As I say, fortunately I like the bike so in the scheme of things it doesn't really matter. If I hated it, things would be different.

As I've mentioned, support from Karma is completely none existent and the shop is painful. He changed my brake pads the other day and lost the hanger screw. When I asked about it there was just a shrug followed by an "it's not important" and then silence. I've started filling the silences now in my head with the next conversation before I even bother getting irate. For the screw I think he was just waiting to say "If you wanted to change that screw to a titanium one, it would save you 0.5 gram and I'd charge you €40. You see what I've done for you, is save you 1 gram and not even charged you for it" ...

Best to get on and enjoy what I have rather than make my own life miserable trying to change something which is impossible ...

 

[Doomanic]

He changed my brake pads the other day and lost the hanger screw. When I asked about it there was just a shrug followed by an "it's not important" and then silence.

I'd be taking one off a store bike in that case.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'd be taking one off a store bike in that case.

I hate to say it, but that was my first thought. But then it felt like it would be stealing. Ok, I'd effectively be stealing my screw back and leaving his store bike without a screw, which he classes as unnecessary anyway, but I still wouldn't be comfortable taking that route. I had hoped he immediately just jump to the easiest and most logical solution and take one off a store bike. But he went easier still, which was to do nothing. I think I'm going to have to head back and insist he takes one off another bike and just refuse to leave until I have one.

 

[Pdoz]

Nah, way too obvious. Step in a dog turd, walk around his shop , THEN ask him to get on the floor and look for your part.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Getting off topic a bit, but an update anyway..

Wrote last week to the guy who'd designed the bike (we'd spoken previously) to say my experiences had been mixed, really liked the bike, looks great, rides great, but the service had been awful. I'm guessing he must have said something to someone as the head of customer service e-mailed me late Wednesday to say to call them to discuss my problem.

Called first thing Thursday. They were very nice and very helpful, but said I'd have to goto the shop and ask there. They didn't make any mention of the K9 decorating technique suggested by @Pdoz , so I obviously failed to clearly explain my frustrations.

He was closed Thursday so headed in on Friday and tried to be positive .... Asked what I wanted so I said , "well, the screw" .... and he dived straight in and said it was already missing, but it's ok because we can fix it, all I have to do is buy a new hanger and he can order that for me. It will take about 2 weeks.

I explained again that it wasn't missing before hand as I'd thoroughly checked it, but nope, that was that, buy a hanger, two weeks.

Maybe wrongly, but I keep trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt with everything. He's young, he's arrogant, I'm sure I was the same. I didn't mind buying a hanger to get a screw if it just meant solving the issue. But, being told that the only way I can fix it is to buy one just seemed different. If he genuinely thought it was missing when he did the work, then surely he'd still just take a screw off a bike in the shop and give me that. If he's saying the only way to fix it is to buy a new hanger, then that makes me think he gorilla wrestled the hanger off by accident and stripped the screw thread or the hanger thread and couldn't put the screw back in. If he genuinely thought it was missing when he did the work, why didn't he say that when I first asked him rather than shrugging and saying it's not important. Either way, seen as I gave him an easy out with my e-mailed offer to buy a hanger, why didn't he just order it then rather than making me come down to the shop again.

Unfortunately, my repeated problems have obviously been building up inside despite my best efforts to find the funny side and take the life's too short view... so a few hour later In a fit of keyboard rage, I wrote to the Karma care guy to say I wasn't satisfied. I was fed up, explained some of the problems I'd had along the way so hopefully he might understand why I was angrily beating up my keyboard and I had no desire to ever go back to the shop, could they please just send me a screw and possibly sell me a hanger directly as well so I have a spare.

So the good news, he wrote back last night and said he would send me a hanger and screw FOC. Maybe all my problems just rest with the laid back, care free attitude, to clients problems and bikes at the bike shop and Karma might actually have some customer service after all. Maybe as a client who ordered through a shop and not on-line my e-mails are auto forwarded to the shop, hence why I don't get replies ?!

 

[Zimmerframe]

WARNING : do not read further unless suffering from insomnia. (which I think should also have been stated on my previous post)

New hanger and screw arrived today, next day delivery !

Tried the screw and it just turned in the thread. Took the old hanger off and found the thread was stripped out. The pictures aren't super clear .. but if anyone's so bored that they're actually looking at them, I've generous included two for your viewing pleasure !

New hanger on top :

Old Hanger on top :

I can now take the back wheel off without everything falling everywhere like bicycle Jenga !