E-Bike v E-Scooter

[Beekeeper]

I suspect we will may shortly see legislation allowing the use of e-scooters in the U.K. these will probably be capped at 15.5mph also.

Whole armies of these things will soon hit the roads like a swarm of motorised bees and the occupants will wave at us while they munch their crisps.

Your state of the art motor wishes you good luck in overtaking them. Unfortunately above 15.5mph your powerful engine will be “on a coffee break” ️

Welcome to the 2020s

 

[GrahamPaul]

I suspect we will may shortly see legislation allowing the use of e-scooters in the U.K. these will probably be capped at 15.5mph also.

Whole armies of these things will soon hit the roads like a swarm of motorised bees and the occupants will wave at us while they munch their crisps.

Your state of the art motor wishes you good luck in overtaking them. Unfortunately above 15.5mph your powerful engine will be “on a coffee break” ️

Welcome to the 2020s

Why are you riding your state of the art, super-suspensioned EMTB on the roads?

 

[Gary]

Why are you riding your state of the art, super-suspensioned EMTB on the roads?

Why not?

I commute on average 100 miles per week on a 170mm FS Emtb.

 

[Gary]

E-Scooters are gonna need licences/Tax/insurance to be used on public roads
Built in lights and some sort of MOT wouldn't be a bad thing for them either.

 

[GrahamPaul]

E-Scooters are gonna need licences/Tax/insurance to be used on public roads
Built in lights and some sort of MOT wouldn't be a bad thing for them either.

AIUI, E-scooters already need all of those things here in Spain. Somehow or other tourists all think they are exempt... as they think they are from the helmet laws.

(Helmet laws in Spain are weird. Too many times North European tourists get a massive fine for riding without a helmet and claim that the Guardia are picking on them because "everyone rides without a helmet". Only true in towns (where you don't need to wear a helmet) or off-road (where you don't need to wear a helmet) or climbing a steep hill on a hot day (where you don't need to wear a helmet). On the public highway at all other times a helmet is mandatory.)

(Oh, and don't get me started on the British way of driving on roundabouts. Let me put it this way, you* come over here and fully accept that you* don't drive on the left. Why should you* expect the law on roundabouts to comply with UK regulations just because that's what you* learned? )

[Edit: Just realised I was hangry! Now fed and watered and so realised that could be misconstrued as a personal attack The "you*" - I edited to add the "*" - should read as "they" or "one".]

 

[GrahamPaul]

Why not?

I commute on average 100 miles per week on a 170mm FS Emtb.

Yeah, but you ride on those Scottish roads with 4 foot deep potholes and an 18 inch deep mud topcoat...

 

[Gary]

Yeah. I have a friend who lives near Valencia I visit and ride most days when there. (I even have a bike Ileave there) I've never worn a helmet cycling in spain (road or off road). Infact I've never even had a helmet there. Other than racing helmets should never be compulsory on bicycles. Spanish helmet laws are brilliant - in a completely retarded way!
Your motor vehicle passing cyclist laws however are absolutely amazing and I wish the entire world would pass the same legislation.

I actually also learned to drive in France so know how euro roundabout etequate works.

Don't for a minute think just because someone is from another country/culture they don't understand yours

 

[GrahamPaul]

Your motor vehicle passing cyclist laws however are absolutely amazing and I wish the entire world would pass the same legislation.

Fantastic, aren't they. A minimum clearance of 1.5m on overtaking. A requirement to cross the solid white line - with all wheels, if necessary - in order to provide the 1.5m clearance. A fine of 200€ for overtaking with less than 1.5m clearance. A fine of 400€ plus 3 penalty points for failing to make any attempt to provide any clearance (i.e. just driving straight along and buzzing the cyclist).

A bit like the roundabout laws, that doesn't get passed on to the hire car drivers, sadly. That's the ones that think that the drink driving laws don't apply either...

I actually also learned to drive in France so know how euro roundabout etequate works.

Don't for a minute think just because someone is from another country/culture they don't understand yours

Yup. I went back and edited the post before reading this one. I needed feeding...

 

[Gary]

Don't worry. I didn't take it as a personal attack. Far from it. I took it as a sort of lazy, blinkered rant about an entire nation. I hope your snack was nice
I don't actually mind anyone attacking/correcting me (either verbally or written) if founded by factual information.
also I'm a bigboy and more than happy to be educated.
It's good to learn

 

[GrahamPaul]

I took it as a sort of lazy, blinkered rant about an entire nation.

Oi! I resemble that remark!

 

[Beekeeper]

After the initial e-scooter craze has reached its peak, the marketeers will then add suspension and beefier tyres.

We will still be struggling to overtaking them reading their papers and munching their crisps. But this time it will not be on the roads.....

It will be on the Black trails ?

 

[Trickz]

I don’t know buddy..there’s not much ground clearance under that one??

 

[Gary]

Waoh there...
Seems someone's missed all the magical qualities the bike industry are telling us about the benefits of Mullet bikes.
Apparently the big front wheel hovers over rough ground smoothing out every single bump and that little rear wheel, accelerates, brakes and turns for you while a brand new fork offset means the front wheel can now just follow the rear.

 

[Trickz]

I forgot about the reverse chopper philosophy!??

 

[Mikerb]

The issue here is that scooters are not bicycles.....E bikes are. That's the very special privelage about the pedelec regulations....and what is at risk by those that derestrict. We CAN ride both on the road and ( in the UK at least) in trail centres, bike parks, forestry trails, bridleways etc. If and when regulations make the use of scooters legal in the UK they will not be legal to use off road in any of those locations and on road only with all the same regulations that apply to motor cycles ( helmet/lights/torch/registration/insurance/road traffic laws, etc)

 

[Gary]

and what is at risk by those that derestrict.

Please stop believing this.

Even derestricted Emtbs don't have a higher max speed than normal bikes.
and 15mph on a road is a bloody stupid assistance limit.

If and when regulations make the use of scooters legal in the UK they will not be legal to use off road in any of those locations and on road only

I think you mean England (and possibly Wales)
As far as I can see E-Scooters should follow the same rights of access as any other motor vehicle.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Even derestricted Emtbs don't have a higher max speed than normal bikes.

Hmmmm.... not so sure about that. How about one of these derestricted? IMVHO, it's this kind of thing which will kill off road access rights.

 

[Gary]

By Emtb I meant class 1

 

[Gary]

it's this kind of thing which will kill off road access rights.

I don't actually understand why anyone would buy one of those things
it costs more than a decent off road motorcycle AND a DH bike and is utterly shit in comparison to either.
unless doing shitey donuts on shared paths is your dream ride

 

[Mikerb]

Please stop believing this.

Even derestricted Emtbs don't have a higher max speed than normal bikes.
and 15mph on a road is a bloody stupid assistance limit.
.

………...which is completely irrelevant. It is not about maximum speed. It is purely about conforming to the law which restricts the ASSISTED speed......that in turn being part of the regulations that enable E mtbs to be classified as bicycles and not motor vehicles.

 

[Gary]

A law which is fucking stupid and clearly wasn't passed by anyone who actually rides a bike?

 

[TheBikePilot]

In London where I live Police are cracking down on these eScooters and guys who have non-pedal/twist and go pedelecs.

I nearly turned into a kid on one who had his girlfriend on the back on the road, no light and bombing down the road at night.

One accident and death and I am sure BBC News will be all over it.

 

[Mikerb]

A law which is fucking stupid and clearly wasn't passed by anyone who actually rides a bike?

…...maybe so but that somewhat demeans the extensive lobbying leading up to the regulation being formed, and continuing now by organisations that do consist of cyclists without whom it is unlikely the Class 1 pedelec would exist at all. The regulators were not considering how to legislate for E Bikes in isolation. As a motor powered vehicle it had to fit within the overall set of regulations governing motorised vehicles and the most obvious, and easiest fit, would have been to classify them as mopeds, meaning the manufacturers would have to put their models through Type Approval ( a complex and costly process) and users would have to comply with all regulations applicable to motor vehicles. The compromise was to limit the maximum continuous power, set a maximum pedal assist speed, and specify that motor assist was only available when pedalling. In return for those restrictions the Class 1 pedelec is classed as a bicycle with the only restriction on use being a minimum age limit of 14 in the UK.

 

[Gary]

Yeah mate. and 20mph off road /28mph on road would have been way more appropriate .
Which just happens to be the same speeds certain other countries legislated.

I don't really GAF about blindly adhering to laws that don't harm anyone. Never have. and certainly wouldn't be terrorising anyone by riding an Emtb with a bit of assistance at the same speeds I can ride normal un motorised bikes.

Have you ever even ridden a derestricted class1 Emtb?
They're not really any faster climbing than 15mph anyway
anything over £25mph on the flat gives you a genuine workout (which 15mph absolutely doesn't)
and they're no faster at all descending/

 

[GrahamPaul]

I don't really GAF about blindly adhering to laws that don't harm anyone.

I'd been visiting my nephew in Britain a few years back and was horrified that I was served my glass of wine in a "filthy" glass. Apparently, it wasn't actually dirty but was just water stained from being in the dishwasher. My nephew is in catering and explained to me (before I tore the head of the barman) that "EU Law" (which is blamed for everything in Britain) prevented them polishing the glasses because they needed to use a fresh cloth for every glass for hygiene reasons.

I was back at work in Germany the following week, sitting at the bar one evening watching the barman busily polishing all the glasses with his white cloth. I related the above tale to him.

"Same law here", came the reply.

My point is that, you are indeed correct that "dumb laws" are there for use against very dumb people and can mostly be ignored. (Germany has all sorts of laws about noise and what you can/must and can't do. These are mostly ignored but are really useful for dealing with the occasional knobhead.)

The speed restriction laws are there to get E-bikes (not just EMTBs) accepted as pedal bikes. The cycle path networks for pedal bikes are much greater in many parts of Europe than in the (poorly served) UK and those speed restrictions were key to getting that access opened up to E-bikes without the need for registration plates/insurance/motorbike type helmets. Being sensible in "bending" those laws is fine. But the world is full of knobheads - you need only look at the Dutch experience with petrol engine assisted pedal bikes 25 years ago - so those laws, although restrictive for some, do make it a hell of a lot easier for access to the bike network for the rest of us.

 

[GrahamPaul]

...anything over £25mph on the flat...

Is that the speed or the penalty fine?

 

[Gary]

it's wind resistance, same as any bicycle

(No. not from an extra spicy kebab)

 

[GrahamPaul]

it's wind resistance, same as any bicycle

(No. not from an extra spicy kebab)

£25 wind resistance? New unit of measurement for me. Perhaps we'll add that to the torque talk thread.

 

[Gary]

Dude. try holding 25mph+ on the flat on any bike. Rolling resistance being a constant after 17-20mph or so the main resistance you're fighting is air and that resistance increases massively the faster you go.
Aero gainz do actually make a difference Especially on a derestricted Eeb.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Dude. try holding 25mph+ on the flat on any bike. Rolling resistance being a constant after 17-20mph or so the main resistance you're fighting is air and that resistance increases massively the faster you go.
Aero gainz do actually make a difference Especially on a derestricted Eeb.

You are winding me up aren't you? Or is it just my screen which shows a Pound Sterling (£) sign in front of the speed you quoted?

Re-read my comments with that symbol of monetary value in mind...