Dji avinox

[Doomanic]

My eMTB in 'eco' is a perfect fit for a day out riding ~50k on single tracks over 6hrs, with a bit of 'trail' towards the end, leaving <10% battery. Anything else would mean a much shorter ride and much less fun.

How much elevation?

 

[DirkWisely]

I don't think I'd want to "jump the gun" and get a 6+k bike from Alibaba before any ecosystem for support/maintenance has developed.

I'd also need a rock solid guarantee as far as having an intact bike arrive on my doorstep before I'd risk that much money.

 

[TimC7]

How much elevation?

On a longer ride typically 1200m - 1500m but not sure how relevant that is without knowing battery size or AUW . . would be a lot less on my analogue bike, and probably more on a lighter Amflow with 800Wh battery.

 

[Doomanic]

IME, elevation has far more impact on range than distance traveled. I normally do 1000-1100m of winch and plummet that typically covers 30km and pretty much depletes 625Wh battery in the Rail in EMTB or the 480Wh battery in the KSL in Turbo.
If I turbo to work on the Rail I can get well over 100km out of the battery but it's probably less than 100m elevation in that distance.

 

[TimC7]

IME, elevation has far more impact on range than distance traveled. I normally do 1000-1100m of winch and plummet that typically covers 30km and pretty much depletes 625Wh battery in the Rail in EMTB or the 480Wh battery in the KSL in Turbo.
If I turbo to work on the Rail I can get well over 100km out of the battery but it's probably less than 100m elevation in that distance.

Elevation and AUW - heavier pals with bigger batteries get very similar numbers . . I'd probably go for the 600Wh if buying the Amflow as that would be enough plus losing a kg is bonus.

 

[zerofunds]

 

[zerofunds]

 

[xtraman122]

I feel like with the amount of hype and game-changing talk we’re having about this motor these guys are destined to have some tragic flaw come out with it. I can see it now, some storyline about how 50% of these things had major mechanical failure after 3 months of use or something. The hype is just next level.

 

[zerofunds]

I'm not sure you know who DJi is lol, maybe Google them

 

[xtraman122]

I'm not sure you know who DJi is lol, maybe Google them

I’m well aware, and just saying this in jest mostly.

 

[Jazzii]

Hello, I would like to be sure: Amflow and Amflow Pro are the same in terms of frame, battery, motor, display. Right? Thanks for answer!

 

[Astro66]

Hello, I would like to be sure: Amflow and Amflow Pro are the same in terms of frame, battery, motor, display. Right? Thanks for answer!

frame, Yes
battery, No
motor, Yes
display. Yes

Amflow PL Carbon has 800Wh battery only.

Amflow PL Carbon Pro has choice of 800Wh or 600Wh

 

[Jazzii]

frame, Yes
battery, No
motor, Yes
display. Yes

Amflow PL Carbon has 800Wh battery only.

Amflow PL Carbon Pro has choice of 800Wh or 600Wh

thanks!

 

[Mikerb]

I feel like with the amount of hype and game-changing talk we’re having about this motor these guys are destined to have some tragic flaw come out with it. I can see it now, some storyline about how 50% of these things had major mechanical failure after 3 months of use or something. The hype is just next level.

not sure there is that much scope for innovation in terms of the mechanical design of the motor given how long established brands have produced them both in Ebikes and host of automotive applications. Where are the torque and cadence sensors?? How are the electronics integrated in that design ( PCB etc)? At the end of the day it is usually the firmware that determines how the motor performs in real world riding conditions......probably the one area it took years for the competition to catch up with Specialized. Personally I would have greater confidence in a manufacturer like ZF for a new motor product and an existing mtb brand for a bike fitted with the new motor.

 

[DirkWisely]

not sure there is that much scope for innovation in terms of the mechanical design of the motor given how long established brands have produced them both in Ebikes and host of automotive applications. Where are the torque and cadence sensors?? How are the electronics integrated in that design ( PCB etc)? At the end of the day it is usually the firmware that determines how the motor performs in real world riding conditions......probably the one area it took years for the competition to catch up with Specialized. Personally I would have greater confidence in a manufacturer like ZF for a new motor product and an existing mtb brand for a bike fitted with the new motor.

Seems like there is a ton of diversity in how the motors are laid out and how they solve the various issues that need solving for the ebike application.

 

[whitymon]

not sure there is that much scope for innovation in terms of the mechanical design of the motor given how long established brands have produced them both in Ebikes and host of automotive applications. Where are the torque and cadence sensors?? How are the electronics integrated in that design ( PCB etc)? At the end of the day it is usually the firmware that determines how the motor performs in real world riding conditions......probably the one area it took years for the competition to catch up with Specialized. Personally I would have greater confidence in a manufacturer like ZF for a new motor product and an existing mtb brand for a bike fitted with the new motor.

If you look closely, the internal design are really different from one motor to another hence their different reliability. So no it also depends on how you built it but true, firmware can detect/decide but this is not gonna create more torque.

In industry, you do not need great innovation from one year to another unless there is a competitor on the market that start doing crazy stuff.

Even if you could have tons of breakthrough it is better to keep them and pushing them out one by one. If there is not tons of competition, there is always a gentle agreement let's keep things as they were.

It always has been like this - new player change the deal, old players adapt and sometimes you found them surprisingly pretty fast reaching the gap like if they were also having it in their warehouse. Sometimes old players were sleeping and they go out of commission too.

Remember that innovation cost a lot of money if brand can skip this part they will do it forever.

 

[Mikerb]

My point is that everyone is restricted to. 250w nominal and it is no coincidence that the main motor brands have all settled on 85/90 nm and even then some struggle with overheating in hotter climates on long climbs. The biggest single problem with all motors however is damage done to bearings by water ingress over time. An enclosed metal structure with a heat source enclosed within it will suffer condensation even if a solution is found to prevent water ingress through the crank seals. Resolving that issue is the innovation needed. I see no need for more power given the limited options a mtb offers to control that power and maintain grip.

 

[xtraman122]

My point is that everyone is restricted to. 250w nominal and it is no coincidence that the main motor brands have all settled on 85/90 nm and even then some struggle with overheating in hotter climates on long climbs. The biggest single problem with all motors however is damage done to bearings by water ingress over time. An enclosed metal structure with a heat source enclosed within it will suffer condensation even if a solution is found to prevent water ingress through the crank seals. Resolving that issue is the innovation needed. I see no need for more power given the limited options a mtb offers to control that power and maintain grip.

The 250w watt thing is just in Europe though, and even there it seems many brands still sell just fine going well beyond as long as it’s not used on public roads. .

 

[whitymon]

My point is that everyone is restricted to. 250w nominal and it is no coincidence that the main motor brands have all settled on 85/90 nm and even then some struggle with overheating in hotter climates on long climbs. The biggest single problem with all motors however is damage done to bearings by water ingress over time. An enclosed metal structure with a heat source enclosed within it will suffer condensation even if a solution is found to prevent water ingress through the crank seals. Resolving that issue is the innovation needed. I see no need for more power given the limited options a mtb offers to control that power and maintain grip.

Yeah, I was recently bash by people saying that. "You know it is a mtb, it is watter dumb dumb".

Honestly, I do not think we need tons of power, I think we all crave more on efficiency, I do not need a rocket just something that can help me sufficiently and long enough. I still find that 2000m elevation on some batteries is fairly low.