Rail (750Wh) Did the "50 hour service" on my Rail rear shock, Rockshox Deluxe Select +

[andrewgc]

Shock had been leaking oil, past the seal, from the negative pressure side. I realize that most of them do leak. Bought the rebuild kit from SRAM. It was easy peasy.
Interesting that functionally it is pretty much identical to the AER air fork on my KTM's. Test rode it yesterday and it is perfect.

 

[arTNC]

This is one of the things I've appreciated about RS products. For a very long time they've offered up rebuild kits and parts along with very good instructions and videos of the rebuild process. I love the performance of many of the Fox suspension components over the years, but their history is not as user friendly for owner repair and service. It's nice that they are getting better in that issue.

BTW, I think you are the Andrew Cooksey I used to race the TSCEC enduro circuit with...aren't you? If you are, it's good to see we are still doing two wheels in the dirt.

 

[andrewgc]

This is one of the things I've appreciated about RS products. For a very long time they've offered up rebuild kits and parts along with very good instructions and videos of the rebuild process. I love the performance of many of the Fox suspension components over the years, but their history is not as user friendly for owner repair and service. It's nice that they are getting better in that issue.

BTW, I think you are the Andrew Cooksey I used to race the TSCEC enduro circuit with...aren't you? If you are, it's good to see we are still doing two wheels in the dirt.

OMG, Yes sir, TSCEC was a big part of my family's life, including my dad!
It appears you too are in Texas (still), what bikes do you have?

 

[arTNC]

I thought that was you. Outside of my actual career field, I worked part time at a friend's local bike shop, so I've owned tons of bikes, most of them MTB's. I also still do dirt motorcycles but don't race the circuit anymore. I built up an old 2003 Santa Cruz Bullit with a Bafang BBSHD mid-drive and rode that for three years very aggressively...even out at the Bronte, TX area where we do the Concho Enduro which I'm sure you probably competed in. BTW we're prepping for our annual enduro out there on the 21st.

Earlier this year I bought a Trek Rail 7 and have been riding the wheels off of it at our local trail in Abilene, TX and riding it out at Bronte, Texana Ranch, Ross Creek Trail Riders. Here's a pic of it recently out at Texana Ranch, and you can see I've already changed out the suspension to full coil...old dirt motor preference on the coil deal, of course...LOL!

I think I'm older than you if I recall, but I still enjoy me some dirt on the motorcycle and the MTB...now emtb. I think I remember a characteristic of yours on the enduro circuit. You were pretty fast, and when you'd pass a competitor who pulled to the side to let you go, you would always respond with a loud, sincere "Thank You!"

 

[andrewgc]

Oh gosh... I am so glad we crossed paths here. Yes rode Concho many times. Even went to the TSCEC awards banq in January (this year) there at Abilene. I was invited due to the HOF thing. Yes, hollering "Thank you" really helped I think, and just seemed to be the right thing to do. I have to get out to the shop now, rebuilding a crankshaft for a KTM 250, and have a 4pm shipping deadline. I will be back here with questions for you!!! www.cookseycrank.com

 

[gmoss]

Good to see a familiar face here. Hope all is well Cooksey.

 

[andrewgc]

Good to see a familiar face here. Hope all is well Cooksey.

Wow... Awesome to see you here GM!!! I know you are very knowledgeable with mtn bikes, and riding. Also, the KTMTalk guru/go-to guy on the KTM 200 powervalve . And also on converting the KTM 200 to E-start!!! You may be the only one who has done it!

 

[gmoss]

Haha. Mtn bikes are one thing, ebike and electricity, electronics are another. I am quite the dummy on that and not afraid to know my limits!

I have not dig that deep into a mtn bike shock, yet. I will do an air can service, but let the fsctory guys handle it beyond that. Big thing is, for folks to understand the level of detail and knowledge you bring to the table with these posts. Good to see!

 

[andrewgc]

I thought that was you. Outside of my actual career field, I worked part time at a friend's local bike shop, so I've owned tons of bikes, most of them MTB's. I also still do dirt motorcycles but don't race the circuit anymore. I built up an old 2003 Santa Cruz Bullit with a Bafang BBSHD mid-drive and rode that for three years very aggressively...even out at the Bronte, TX area where we do the Concho Enduro which I'm sure you probably competed in. BTW we're prepping for our annual enduro out there on the 21st.

Earlier this year I bought a Trek Rail 7 and have been riding the wheels off of it at our local trail in Abilene, TX and riding it out at Bronte, Texana Ranch, Ross Creek Trail Riders. Here's a pic of it recently out at Texana Ranch, and you can see I've already changed out the suspension to full coil...old dirt motor preference on the coil deal, of course...LOL!

I think I'm older than you if I recall, but I still enjoy me some dirt on the motorcycle and the MTB...now emtb. I think I remember a characteristic of yours on the enduro circuit. You were pretty fast, and when you'd pass a competitor who pulled to the side to let you go, you would always respond with a loud, sincere "Thank You!" View attachment 137596

Hopefully you saw my reply Friday, to your post. I forgot to copy you! My bad.
l love that rear shock, with spring. Envious!!!
As I mentioned, I love my Rail. Today is eclipse day, and tomorrow starts a bunch of rain. Gonna get a late afternoon ride in today, maybe 10 miles on the pedal bike and 10 on the Rail. Hopefully the "eclipse traffic" wont hinder getting to the trailhead.
Question... I have about 275 miles on my rail, and it has been perfect, well except for a "creak" noise that I am chasing down. Any suggestions on what I can be doing to prolong the life of the motor and/or battery system?
Thanks, Andrew Cooksey

 

[arTNC]

Hopefully you saw my reply Friday, to your post. I forgot to copy you! My bad.
l love that rear shock, with spring. Envious!!!
As I mentioned, I love my Rail. Today is eclipse day, and tomorrow starts a bunch of rain. Gonna get a late afternoon ride in today, maybe 10 miles on the pedal bike and 10 on the Rail. Hopefully the "eclipse traffic" wont hinder getting to the trailhead.
Question... I have about 275 miles on my rail, and it has been perfect, well except for a "creak" noise that I am chasing down. Any suggestions on what I can be doing to prolong the life of the motor and/or battery system?
Thanks, Andrew Cooksey

LOL!...the eclipsamania around some parts in our state have been kind of ridiculous. I don't get it, but hey...people can enjoy what they want.

Andrew, on the Bosch motor, it's been our experience at the bike shop and from reading on forums like these that the Bosch motor doesn't have much need in the maintenance department. Unlike our dirt motor engines that you are well versed in, they have little in the way of maintenance items. Add to that the fairly well accepted durability and longevity of the CX motor, and there's not much to worry about. Eventually there will be bearing and other wear requiring service and replacement parts, and with your KTM engine business, you may actually be fully capable of it. I will probably send mine off to a reputable rebuild provider when that time comes.

One issue that seems to affect most emtb motors of all brands is water intrusion. Unlike our dirt motor engines, most of these e-motors aren't nearly as well sealed. The CX Bosch does fairly well, but frequently dunking them in stream and creek crossings isn't that healthy for them. Fortunately you and I live in TX and don't have the exposure like many in the UK and other locations are challenged with. Still, I recommend riding in dry conditions and avoid water and much as much as possible. You and I suffered through years of racing enduros where we didn't have a choice in mud and water. I don't do that anymore with my dirt motors or my emtb...LOL!

On the battery life and condition, these units will last a very long time. I learned a good bit about lithium ion e-bike batteries with that SC Bullit/Bafang mid-drive I built and rode for 3 years. I bought a very good quality battery from Bicycle Motor Works, and it has been extremely reliable. It has lasted 3 years of heavy use with little degradation in power. The recommendations for the batteries are pretty much the same for the Bosch battery in that it's best to leave them at about a half or so charge when you're not going to use them the next day. I say about "a half charge", but this isn't as critical as just attempting to keep the charge somewhere between 30-60 percent for "ideal" storage...storage meaning anything long term or just anything where use won't occur the next day. This isn't necessarily a life-or-death situation for the battery, but it is accepted that this effort will prolong battery condition and life.

Andrew, on the creaking noise, do you have the e-thirteen OEM cranks? Some report looseness and creaking from these though we have not experienced this at the bike shop. I went to 160mm e-thirteen cranks on my Rail 7, and as I always do, I installed them with a good dose of anti-seize. This issue can be like an oil discussion thread with a loud hue and cry along with much gnashing of teeth...LOL! I've been using anti-seize for decades on my crank arms of all manner of designs, and I've never had a creak or have the arm fall off...period.

Another area of looseness or noise on the Bosch motor can come from the chainring nut. This is easily fixed by cleaning the nut and threads and using something like blue Loctite with proper torque...very simple fix. As far as other creaks, they can be from all kinds of locations from seatposts, saddle rails, axle interfaces, headsets, suspension linkage, etc., etc...just like our dirt motors. I pulled every pivoting component and every metal-to-metal interface loose on my Rail before I even rode it and applied either anti-seize or grease to those locations. Not just Trek, but nearly every bike manufacturer seems reluctant to "fully" grease or lube many critical spots on their bikes when they are assembled. As far as your creak, I recommend you do what I did, or you could chase your tail quite a bit.

That's about all I got. I will mention that many, maybe most, recommend not lugging the motor on trails and climbs and instead keep a lower gear most of the time and just spin. Personally I don't think the CX motor is too fragile that requires constant downshifting to spin the cranks. Now, I'm not promoting being in way too high a gear either but using common sense in listening to the motor and feeling its power output to up and down shift accordingly. You know the drill with our dirt motors. Even without an engine tach, you can tell when we need to shift before there is unwarranted laboring with the motor. This CX motor is basically the same mechanical basis for that race motor that gets a whooping by those professional enduro racers, so as long as you don't get ridiculous with extremely high gears under load, the motor should remain quite reliable and durable over time.

BTW, I'm heading back out to Texana Ranch Thursday to continue to prepare for the enduro on the 21st...and of course ride the dirt motor and the Rail.

 

[andrewgc]

Haha. Mtn bikes are one thing, ebike and electricity, electronics are another. I am quite the dummy on that and not afraid to know my limits!

I have not dig that deep into a mtn bike shock, yet. I will do an air can service, but let the fsctory guys handle it beyond that. Big thing is, for folks to understand the level of detail and knowledge you bring to the table with these posts. Good to see!

Yes sir, totally agree. The air can service is as far as I should go, on the shock. I could easily damage something beyond repair, not knowing what I am doing and all!!!
I have about 275 hours on my ebike, and this is the only ebike that I have ever ridden. I must say, it is way more like riding a dirt bike, than riding a pedal MTB!!!

 

[gmoss]

I have the Fuel, and keep it on eco turned down as low as it will go, most of the time, so for me, its a gradual transition. It is fun turning it up and accelerating up a hill!! Haha

 

[andrewgc]

LOL!...the eclipsamania around some parts in our state have been kind of ridiculous. I don't get it, but hey...people can enjoy what they want.

Andrew, on the Bosch motor, it's been our experience at the bike shop and from reading on forums like these that the Bosch motor doesn't have much need in the maintenance department. Unlike our dirt motor engines that you are well versed in, they have little in the way of maintenance items. Add to that the fairly well accepted durability and longevity of the CX motor, and there's not much to worry about. Eventually there will be bearing and other wear requiring service and replacement parts, and with your KTM engine business, you may actually be fully capable of it. I will probably send mine off to a reputable rebuild provider when that time comes.

One issue that seems to affect most emtb motors of all brands is water intrusion. Unlike our dirt motor engines, most of these e-motors aren't nearly as well sealed. The CX Bosch does fairly well, but frequently dunking them in stream and creek crossings isn't that healthy for them. Fortunately you and I live in TX and don't have the exposure like many in the UK and other locations are challenged with. Still, I recommend riding in dry conditions and avoid water and much as much as possible. You and I suffered through years of racing enduros where we didn't have a choice in mud and water. I don't do that anymore with my dirt motors or my emtb...LOL!

On the battery life and condition, these units will last a very long time. I learned a good bit about lithium ion e-bike batteries with that SC Bullit/Bafang mid-drive I built and rode for 3 years. I bought a very good quality battery from Bicycle Motor Works, and it has been extremely reliable. It has lasted 3 years of heavy use with little degradation in power. The recommendations for the batteries are pretty much the same for the Bosch battery in that it's best to leave them at about a half or so charge when you're not going to use them the next day. I say about "a half charge", but this isn't as critical as just attempting to keep the charge somewhere between 30-60 percent for "ideal" storage...storage meaning anything long term or just anything where use won't occur the next day. This isn't necessarily a life-or-death situation for the battery, but it is accepted that this effort will prolong battery condition and life.

Andrew, on the creaking noise, do you have the e-thirteen OEM cranks? Some report looseness and creaking from these though we have not experienced this at the bike shop. I went to 160mm e-thirteen cranks on my Rail 7, and as I always do, I installed them with a good dose of anti-seize. This issue can be like an oil discussion thread with a loud hue and cry along with much gnashing of teeth...LOL! I've been using anti-seize for decades on my crank arms of all manner of designs, and I've never had a creak or have the arm fall off...period.

Another area of looseness or noise on the Bosch motor can come from the chainring nut. This is easily fixed by cleaning the nut and threads and using something like blue Loctite with proper torque...very simple fix. As far as other creaks, they can be from all kinds of locations from seatposts, saddle rails, axle interfaces, headsets, suspension linkage, etc., etc...just like our dirt motors. I pulled every pivoting component and every metal-to-metal interface loose on my Rail before I even rode it and applied either anti-seize or grease to those locations. Not just Trek, but nearly every bike manufacturer seems reluctant to "fully" grease or lube many critical spots on their bikes when they are assembled. As far as your creak, I recommend you do what I did, or you could chase your tail quite a bit.

That's about all I got. I will mention that many, maybe most, recommend not lugging the motor on trails and climbs and instead keep a lower gear most of the time and just spin. Personally I don't think the CX motor is too fragile that requires constant downshifting to spin the cranks. Now, I'm not promoting being in way too high a gear either but using common sense in listening to the motor and feeling its power output to up and down shift accordingly. You know the drill with our dirt motors. Even without an engine tach, you can tell when we need to shift before there is unwarranted laboring with the motor. This CX motor is basically the same mechanical basis for that race motor that gets a whooping by those professional enduro racers, so as long as you don't get ridiculous with extremely high gears under load, the motor should remain quite reliable and durable over time.

BTW, I'm heading back out to Texana Ranch Thursday to continue to prepare for the enduro on the 21st...and of course ride the dirt motor and the Rail.

Oh my gosh, you are a wealth of knowledge!!! Just a quick reply or two for now.
On shifting, I try to never load the motor too much at low RPMs. Just try to keep it in mid RPMs. It just seems, and you seem to substantiate it, that riding like that may prolong the motor life.

Thanks for the comment about overnight storage regarding the battery. I try not to have a full charge on the batt, over night. I try to recharge it overnight, before I plan to ride the next day. Thank you.

In January when I came out to the TSCEC awards banq, I went out on Friday, hoping to ride at your Buck Creek mtn bike trail, however the shop that manages that trail said the trail was closed due to mud. So, I just rode around Abilene State Park, where I camped. Is that by chance the shop that you work (worked?) at?

I have not checked the steering head bearings, will do that soon. Don't think the crank arm nut (on the right side) has backed off, as I put a white paint mark on it when new, and it appears to be in the same location. Yes I too really like that nickel anti-seize for sure!

Thanks for giving back to dirt biking, with your trail work at Texana.
More later, promise.
Andrew Cooksey

 

[arTNC]

Yes, Biketown is where I worked until recently...though I still get my "retiree's discount"...LOL! Those guys there are friends more than coworkers and owner. We started that Buck Creek trail in about 1999. It developed into a great trail with lots of variety. Hopefully you will get a chance to ride it at some point. Man, the emtb has reenergized my riding to a degree that I never thought possible as I got older.

 

[andrewgc]

Yes, Biketown is where I worked until recently...though I still get my "retiree's discount"...LOL! Those guys there are friends more than coworkers and owner. We started that Buck Creek trail in about 1999. It developed into a great trail with lots of variety. Hopefully you will get a chance to ride it at some point. Man, the emtb has reenergized my riding to a degree that I never thought possible as I got older.

Yes, Buck Creek is on my list!
Not sure the emtb has reenergized my interest in riding, but I am totally shocked at the upper body workout it provides, and how much it is like dirt bike riding. Even though I may be only going 3-5 mph faster than on my pedal bike, it totally changes line selection, the importance of tire quality and pressure, bike setup, etc. Like I may have said, it is much more like riding a dirt bike to me, than riding a mtb.
Yes, I have the e-thirteen cranks.
Thanks for the comments about the motor etc, not being as waterproofed as our dirt bikes. Personally I really dont like to ride my mtbs or the emtb in even damp conditions.

Here is mine... may be the same color as yours? totally stock except for pedals, bottle cage and fender...

Thanks, Andrew

 

[gmoss]

I bought the 9.8 XT Fuel with the nicer bits. Have pulled them and selling if you are interested in upgrading anything relatively cheaply, comparatively. Like carbon bar/stem combo, fork, carbon wheels...

 

[andrewgc]

I bought the 9.8 XT Fuel with the nicer bits. Have pulled them and selling if you are interested in upgrading anything relatively cheaply, comparatively. Like carbon bar/stem combo, fork, carbon wheels...

Nice bike... that is certainly a step above my Fuel EX 8! Thank you for the offer, however I best pass at this point in time.

 

[gmoss]

Thanks, and no worries st all. Just got all this stuff laying around. Haha

 

[arTNC]

Nice bike... that is certainly a step above my Fuel EX 8! Thank you for the offer, however I best pass at this point in time.

C'mon Andrew...you know you want coils...LOL!