Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion

[CRFan1]

CHEEB TEST!

2 things....M600 would make that bike perfect and the display is designed to go on the right side of the bars. Great review either way and a very nice bike overall!!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

2 things....M600 would make that bike perfect and the display is designed to go on the right side of the bars. Great review either way and a very nice bike overall!!

M600 would be good to test. The display is designed for the right but the controller cable supplied is too short to allow it to go there and the remote still be close enough to the left grip.

 

[Yzlvr]

Great video Rob... Well done!

Now we need to be able to get these frames... Hopefully someone can make a thread with all the available buying options..

 

[CRFan1]

M600 would be good to test. The display is designed for the right but the controller cable supplied is too short to allow it to go there and the remote still be close enough to the left grip.

Yep....I upgraded my X1 to a color display that has a better selector switch and allowed me to move it to the left bar. I am sure you can possibly get that for the cheeb or I do believe they make an extension for the switch.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The display is designed for the right but the controller cable supplied is too short to allow it to go there and the remote still be close enough to the left grip.

Do you think it's designed for left hand drive ?

 

[RyeNiel]

OK, sort of a fess up here.

In true school boy error or in true theory not meeting reality, having measured out the 200mm shock in place in the frame and its clearance of 60mm between the seat tube and the cross bar between the top stays, one would think with a 57mm stroke you should have 3mm clearance. I thought having seen Patdams photos I had better check by letting all the air out ( I had only let 50% of the air out due to the piggy back arrangement on the DH5, where its not recommended by Fox to work the shock without pressure in it ) and seeing fully the suspension in operation. Previously with some air in, the cross piece missed by about 3mm, tick, but was that true full deflection ?
View attachment 50017

Allas its not quite true. With all the air fully out and total movement, its not so.The cross piece rotates by about 15 degrees as it goes through the 150mm range at the back, reducing as it does the theoretical clearance of 3mm to about 0.5mm. Is that enough ? Yes and no, get some mud on there and its going to be compressed.

OK how do we give it more clearance, an offset bush in the shock will give about 3mm at each end
View attachment 50020
So if you insist on using your 200mm shock as you have one sitting around as I did, then yes you can use a 200mm shock as long as its max 57mm travel, but to give yourself true mud clearance, then fit either a single offset bush or one either end to give you back an extra 3-6 mm of length and thus clearance.

Offsetbushings.com | The Finest MTB Shock Bushings

Offset and Standard Shock Bushings made for your bike. Recommended by MBR / MBUK / Pinkbike. Easy ordering, shipped worldwide. Produced for Fox, RockShox, Cane Creek & many more.

www.offsetbushings.com

Which leads nicely on to why I like the BB to be lower to terrafirma. I ride Whytes, love em, as they feel unlike virtually every other bike I have ridden, you are riding in the bike and not on the bike. Look at any Whyte and the ground clearance is always less than normal, its just one of their characteristics and once you have ridden one, its tough to ride a taller bike. Thus a shorter overall shock with comparative stroke, will give you a lower BB.

Thanks

 

[marcos]

Hi Patdam, Do you feel your motor as weak as Rob feels It in his test??? Compared to your previous Shimano, is more or less punchy??? Does anybody knows if is possible to unlimit It by software. Should I change my order by a M600??

 

[patdam]

Hi Patdam, Do you feel your motor as weak as Rob feels It in his test??? Compared to your previous Shimano, is more or less punchy??? Does anybody knows if is possible to unlimit It by software. Should I change my order by a M600??

For my use, 4/5h ride in mountain with +- 1500 D+. My seeting for the shimano . is eco: low, trail: middle and boost: low and usualy i do not use the boost mode, too energy eater.

M500 have more progressive power increase and effectively "power feeling" is lower, but the difference is not so big in comparison of my shimano seeting and if you do not really feel the difference when you up the mode, you clearly feel it if you decrease in uphill.

The most important for me is that i feel it more strong (couple), it decrease less quickly power in hard uphill, it do not need quick rpm (over 80) to provide is best rendement and with the battery capacity, i mount with the M500 where i use walk assist with the shimano. But that clear, for those who use max power available for each modes with the shimano, M500 is less punchy.

I would say also that in opposit of shimano, power delivery is mostly sensible at the effort applied on crankarms than rpm. you can stay in middle mode and power delivery have larger range in function of your effort. rather than shimano (with my seeting) who needs often modes change in fuction of the difficulties.

About the M600, following return read in other forum i am absolutly not interestted. too many power, heavy noise, great consumption. i have see several people who prefer M500 after comparaison.

i whould add also that is "shooting yourself in the foot" with using and promote this motor in europe. It will give a major argument to a lot of people who wait possibility to class e-bike in motorcycle

 

[Animalector]

I think the 'feel' really depends on the power delivery programming and design of the motor.

Stick with me...

Ok.. so.. Shimano may choose to deliver their full 70Nm from very early on.. whereas Bafang may ramp up the assistance to reduce the pressure on the drive train internally.

As noted, the Bafang is a very VERY quiet motor, whereas the Shimano is somewhat noisy... This could be due to the internal gear material, width and overall strength. Therefore, Shimano may choose to give that "kick in the pants" boost which feels more powerfull because the drivetrain is stronger, but Bafang is more conservative but ending up with more torque, just delivered higher in the RPM range where the stress in the drivetrain is reduced.

Just a thought.

Andy

 

[savas]

I think the 'feel' really depends on the power delivery programming and design of the motor.

Stick with me...

Ok.. so.. Shimano may choose to deliver their full 70Nm from very early on.. whereas Bafang may ramp up the assistance to reduce the pressure on the drive train internally.

As noted, the Bafang is a very VERY quiet motor, whereas the Shimano is somewhat noisy... This could be due to the internal gear material, width and overall strength. Therefore, Shimano may choose to give that "kick in the pants" boost which feels more powerfull because the drivetrain is stronger, but Bafang is more conservative but ending up with more torque, just delivered higher in the RPM range where the stress in the drivetrain is reduced.

Just a thought.

Andy

Exactly what i am thinking.Guys just imagine if we are able to reprograme this motor like blevo.This will be superb

 

[Waynemarlow]

You have to also ask the question is how often in reality do you use full boost on a normal days ride ? A friend of mine loves his Shimano engine because his normal ride is a 1 hour full on “ blast”. He came with us the other day on a 2 1/2 hr mud fest ride, whined constantly about battery use worries, the fact he was having to actually peddle hard in Eco to keep up and we had to cut the ride short as he was down to 10% left with the battery failing on the last 100m back to base.

We on the other hand had had a brilliant day with lots of banter about the guy at the back needing to get fitter.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

You have to also ask the question is how often in reality do you use full boost on a normal days ride ? A friend of mine loves his Shimano engine because his normal ride is a 1 hour full on “ blast”. He came with us the other day on a 2 1/2 hr mud fest ride, whined constantly about battery use worries, the fact he was having to actually peddle hard in Eco to keep up and we had to cut the ride short as he was down to 10% left with the battery failing on the last 100m back to base.

We on the other hand had had a brilliant day with lots of banter about the guy at the back needing to get fitter.

A lot personally. I quite like a 1 hour turbo blast. It’s not just turbo riding though. EMTB mode on Bosch is very responsive even when you are already at a good speed. It engages instantly providing a good kick of power even if you’re already at a steady 10mph.

The Bafang is more muted and no where near as responsive to pedal input. I think a LOT is down to software. But it’s not just the overall power that is lacking. It’s the entire feel of the entire motor.

 

[R120]

Is there the ability to tune the power delivery on the Bafang via an app/computer connection?

Its an interesting observation as for me whenever I ride an EMTB its not the motors power that leaves a lasting impression, but the power delivery which is all down to software - I have always stuck with Shimano as I really like the power delivery in Trail mode, and how the software adapts the power delivery based off the rider input. Its also why EMTB mode on the Bosch is so good, in fact its that, rather than the actual motors power that makes it really good IMO.

However I prefer the subtle introduction of Support to the more instant power of the Bosch, as to me the Shimano feels more like riding a regular bike with assistance, and you dot have to adapt your riding/peadling style as much if you are switching between normal and ebikes. Also part of my preference is that I have probably spent nearly 8000 miles or so on the Shimano, and a lot less on the other systems, so its become my default experience of riding EMTB's

 

[Mteam]

Decent review, I think your conclusions about it not being the right bike for most people are spot on.

The main concern for me would be the reliability of the motor system, especially as you got one error already just riding in the wet. I wonder how reliable it would be over the course of a year in the UK.

 

[Gary]

I prefer the subtle introduction of Support to the more instant power of the Bosch, as to me the Shimano feels more like riding a regular bike with assistance, and you dot have to adapt your riding/peadling style as much if you are switching between normal and ebikes. Also part of my preference is that I have probably spent nearly 8000 miles or so on the Shimano, and a lot less on the other systems, so its become my default experience of riding EMTB's

Exactly my feelings too.
Infact. I don't like that "instant kick" in Bosch Emtb mode Rob mentions as it takes away directness of crank control rather than just adding to it. Being honest I don't like wheelying Ebikes as much either as the motor takes the directness of control away and you need to rely on the rear brake rather than just pedal input which is not how I wheelie a normal bike.
I'm a minoity here as I prefer normal bikes and actually still love the reward of my own effort. whether it be a sprint, a simple pedal kick to lift the front end or a climb.
Ebikes are fun but they do lack a lot of what I've always loved about mucking about on bikes

 

[RyeNiel]

Exactly my feelings too.
Infact. I don't like that "instant kick" in Bosch Emtb mode Rob mentions as it takes away directness of crank control rather than just adding to it. Being honest I don't like wheelying Ebikes as much either as the motor takes the directness of control away and you need to rely on the rear brake rather than just pedal input which is not how I wheelie a normal bike.
I'm a minoity here as I prefer normal bikes and actually still love the reward of my own effort. whether it be a sprint, a simple pedal kick to lift the front end or a climb.
Ebikes are fun but they do lack a lot of what I've always loved about mucking about on bikes

I agree

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Exactly my feelings too.
Infact. I don't like that "instant kick" in Bosch Emtb mode Rob mentions as it takes away directness of crank control rather than just adding to it. Being honest I don't like wheelying Ebikes as much either as the motor takes the directness of control away and you need to rely on the rear brake rather than just pedal input which is not how I wheelie a normal bike.
I'm a minoity here as I prefer normal bikes and actually still love the reward of my own effort. whether it be a sprint, a simple pedal kick to lift the front end or a climb.
Ebikes are fun but they do lack a lot of what I've always loved about mucking about on bikes

Agree also on the motor feeing vs personal preferences. Everyone will likely have a different preference to the motor feel. This is why apps like Mission Control and the Shimano version can be extremely useful.

it’s a shame Bosch don’t have one to allow the rider to customise the motor characteristics. Same with Bafang. You’re kind of stuck with whatever the programmers think you should have. Not what might be the best for the user.

 

[RyeNiel]

Agree also on the motor feeing vs personal preferences. Everyone will likely have a different preference to the motor feel. This is why apps like Mission Control and the Shimano version can be extremely useful.

it’s a shame Bosch don’t have one to allow the rider to customise the motor characteristics. Same with Bafang. You’re kind of stuck with whatever the programmers think you should have. Not what might be the best for the user.

Make sense

 

[Gary]

You’re kind of stuck with whatever the programmers think you should have. Not what might be the best for the user.

Yeah. Nothing's perfect. I've heard folk complain about Emtb motors sweetspot in the torque curve being at too high a cadence when I feel the exact opposite.
I'll top out at at least 160rpm at some point on pretty much every normal bike ride, can spin up to a max cadence of over 200rpm if I wanted and can happily sit above 100rpm for hours on the road (and I'm unfitAF just now) but the Shimano motors assistance drops off drastically above 100rpm making spinning an actual high cadence pointless.

 

[LucB]

I see they now have the e10 kit for sale on eBay, however they mention that they can’t send the motor and battery to the UK, Europe is ok though, why is this?

Could you put the link for the ebay add, i cant seem to find the dengfu frame anywhere on ebay.
Thanks

 

[markus datgloi]

Could you put the link for the ebay add, i cant seem to find the dengfu frame anywhere on ebay.
Thanks

So simple, search "E-10 ebike" and you will find 29er Boost AM Ebike Carbon Frame Suspension BAFANG M600 816WH 150 Travel E10 L | eBay and there is one in S... the rest is probably further on in the list. When I try ebay.de I get all 4 size.

 

[LucB]

So simple, search "E-10 ebike" and you will find 29er Boost AM Ebike Carbon Frame Suspension BAFANG M600 816WH 150 Travel E10 L | eBay and there is one in S... the rest is probably further on in the list. When I try ebay.de I get all 4 size.

is this a genuine denfu frame then or an imitation? I notice the battery is only 816wh rather than the 840wh dengfu offer, thats why i couldnt find it, i was searching for dengfu.

 

[Cabby.]

Just watched the video on this and there is no way I'm trawling through 700+ posts so my question is, if whoever can design a 800+ wh battery how can't Bosch ??

I get battery anxiety on every ride on my 625

 

[R120]

Just watched the video on this and there is no way I'm trawling through 700+ posts so my question is, if whoever can design a 800+ wh battery how can't Bosch ??

I get battery anxiety on every ride on my 625

Simple answer is they can, main reason they dont is that battery capacity is largely dictated by frame design, and the ability to be able to physically fit the battery into the majority of frames.

@Rob Rides EMTB are you able to take a picture of the Cheeb battery next to a Bosch/Shimano/Specilized in tube battery?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Simple answer is they can, main reason they dont is that battery capacity is largely dictated by frame design, and the ability to be able to physically fit the battery into the majority of frames.

@Rob Rides EMTB are you able to take a picture of the Cheeb battery next to a Bosch/Shimano/Specilized in tube battery?

It’s a small amount bigger but cell wise it’s about the same. Important to remember that it’s a 48v system, so it has a similar amount of actual cells inside compared to a Bosch 625Wh battery.

 

[R120]

It’s a small amount bigger but cell wise it’s about the same. Important to remember that it’s a 48v system, so it has a similar amount of actual cells inside compared to a Bosch 625Wh battery.

So its a more efficient system?

 

[Zimmerframe]

So its a more efficient system?

Running in parallel on another thread :

Orbea Rise vs Levo SL range

Orbea Rise riders please help me with my decision between the Levo SL and Orbea Rise. Range is very high on my requirements. I live in Colorado and returning to the high country is part of my interest in having an emtb. On the EMBN they have a great comparison of the Levo SL vs Levo range...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[paul-g]

I have a theory that my M500 is only running at 12 amps.

the highest I’ve seen the Watts on the display is 580w.

it’s a 48v system
48x12=576

The controller should be good for upto 25 amps but if I can get it up to around 18 amps then it’ll definitely be at the level of the top competitors putting out 864watts

I’m in touch with Bafang, via MOSHON-E in the U.K. - first thing is to determine what amps my controller is set at.

if I can unleash the amps on the controller then that would be the dream!

ahhhhhh i did ask yonks and yonks ago "are you going to test the battery and electrics""

 

[Rosemount]

Agree also on the motor feeing vs personal preferences. Everyone will likely have a different preference to the motor feel. This is why apps like Mission Control and the Shimano version can be extremely useful.

it’s a shame Bosch don’t have one to allow the rider to customise the motor characteristics. Same with Bafang. You’re kind of stuck with whatever the programmers think you should have. Not what might be the best for the user.

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning > eplus

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning is a device to unlock the motor up to 50 Km / h. Also available for Bosch 4gen 85nm

www.eplus.bike

BOSCH
ADVANCED TUNING
€ 193
The Advanced kit consists of the chip, to be installed in the engine crankcase, and the app that allows you to change the mapping.
In addition to unlocking the speed, the system allows the application to customize your driving style, based on the type of route and experience. The cyclist can customize both the speed and the style of power delivery according to the speed. Eplus offers different mappings from which users can choose: eco, urban, touring, enduro trial and race.

By going to one of our authorized dealers, as an e-bike motor specialist, in addition to the mappings already present, it will be possible to create up to a maximum of 6 “ad hoc” mappings for the maximum driving style customization.
The Reseller can also modify the speed ranges to which the cursors refer.

??????

 

[Cabby.]

Is Bosch produce a battery that size I'd be first in the que to buy, 50 miles is a dream for me, anything over 20 and I'm shitting myself.