Custom e-bike frames

[R120]

So, anyone looked into getting a custom frame built? Couple of examples of custom steel hardtails running Shimano E8000's (i believe Shimano sell the e8000 as a kit including mounting bracket for frame builders) i have seen floating around the internet.

Had custom frames before a long time ago, and cant help but feel a custom frame full susser is something i could be tempted into.

I get the feeling that a lot of e-bikes are designed around not being too radical a departure from their normal counterparts for fear of customers not being able to relate to them, and much easier to make an e-bike version of an existing model from a marketing and production point of view.

What really got me thinking was in the EMBN video with Fabien Barel he says you can actually size down on an e-bike as the low slung weight of the motor/battery if designed well creates the stability that a lot of people upsize on a normal bike for.

I have never been one for over thinking geometry or the latest fads, in my experience a bike feels right or it doesn't, sometimes the stats add up but something doesn't click, so i don't know the rights and wrongs of Barels thinking, other than it go me thinking!

 

[Gary]

Fab talks a lot of rubbish at times. but being 2x world DH champion and an elequent English speaker people tend to listen.

in the last two years manufacturers have all increased the reach on their trail and enduro bikes. it's still perfectly acceptible to ride the size those same manufacturers were telling you to 2 years back. Infact it's still perfectly acceptible to "size down" from what they were recommending back then.
I still prefer to size down. I'm predominantly a rear wheel biased DH/Dirt jump rider who rides uphill to reach the fun riding so want all my bikes to handle like dirtjump/4X bikes or DH bikes on the fun parts and am happy to take the compromised climbing position that comes from this.
DH bikes have a shorter reach (but similar wheelbase), slacker H/A and lower BB than the current sales trend bikes touted as "long low and slack"
Why? Because they're not compromised for climbing. That is not to say you can't climb on them. it just takes a slightly different approach to weight placement while doing so. A compromise most all round riders can't fathom out.

What geometry figures would you be looking at ? what suspension design?, leverage curve?, anti-squat? anti-rise? and pedal kickback? numbers would you be trying to achieve with your custom design? and what travel and shock would you be designing it to use?
There's a hell of a lot to fuck up designing an ordinary full sus frame nevermind an E-bike one. Most manufacturers seem to have their designs and ride characteristics pretty sorted these days. I'm very particular about what I like but luckily geometry tweaks here and there are easily possible these days with the use of angle/reach headsets, offset bushings. Air shafts, shock length modification and wheelsize swapping giving the option of getting off the shelf bikes far closer to your ideal geometry.

 

[R120]

I share your thoughts as i spent my youth on BMX before progressing to dirt jumping on MTB's then DH so i like a bike i feel i can chuck around, even if the reality is i don't chuck any bike around like i used too.

For me the point of a custom build isn't to think you are going to build your perfect bike, as you will usually be disappointed if thats your aim - like you point out there are a lot of other parts that go into the mix, past experience for me at least is to build something that you can adapt by changing the parts you put on to it to tweak it. I had a road frame built that could be a fixed gear alley cat type bike one day and a single speed cyclocross bike the next, but also run as a single speed trail bike at a push too, kind of a custom slacker On One Pompino.

My interest in a custom frame isn't that i don't think their isn't a bike out there that works for me, but that its a lot of fun to build one and think outside the box a bit.

 

[Gary]

Ah.. .I get where you're coming from now. Although I just had to google "slacker On One pompino"
I went the other way from you and rode little 100 Dirtjump hardtails with 450mm seatposts as my main bikes and I'd use them for everything from XC to DJ to DH (I even rode a CX race on one) for the last two decades. My current (newest) one has a 250mm dropper post. Extremely versatile for me. But most folk who ride it hand it back with a WTF kinda look about them.
I also struggled to find an E-bike that ticked enough boxes to even make me want a test ride. I still haven't ridden a single modern Emtb yet. There's a good chance that'll change tomorrow though.

 

[R120]

Dropper post is a good example - I have a BMC Speedfox Trailcrew, which by luck more than anything else in a size large enables me to run a 150mm Reverb which when slammed right down into the frame is at my perfect saddle height when fully extended, meaning i can have it both right down and up exactly how i would want it if i had designed it myself. Now if i could get a frame that allowed me to run a 170mm dropper like that and still fitted in all the other ways i would be all over it. So putting aside geometry what i want is a bike with an uninterrupted straight seat tube, and that requires a suspension sytem that doesn't mess with the seat tube to enable this - however i also want a super low standover if possible, compromising the linkage you can have and potentially the travel when you throw needing to fit a battery into the triangle too??!!

Maybe i am talking myself into a Nicolai Eboxx!

Exclusive: NICOLAI ION G16-EBOXX-3 – the GEOLUTION of E-MTBs | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[R120]

In fact really thinking about it i would love to be able to come up with something that is a slightly bigger e-bike version of a canyon Stitched 720

Stitched 720 Professional Downhill Bike | CANYON

but running plus tires, still single speed, something you can hit ups some fun trails and jumps on, but also look at some urban stuff too . . dangerous thoughts!

 

[Gary]

My Capra has a 170mm reverb (not quite slammed into the frame). it had a 150mm and TBH 150mm lower than full extension was absolutely perfect for descending even the steepest techiest stuff. I only went o 170mm to give me more room when manualling (I can't manual using the brake so need that room). a little extravagant, eh?

I'd hate that Nicolia. but we're not all after the same thing. Choice with E-bikes is only going to get better. My main problem will be my preference for a shorter reach is gradually being sized out of a lot of bikes ranges. I'm now having to look at size small frames to get the sort of reach I prefer and I'm 5'11". The bonus there though is huge standover and plenty room for long droppers.

 

[Gary]

I also have an older Rose Jester. Short travel DJ full sus designed for similar use to the stitched.

The Stitched is lovely but the Jester IMO has a far more useful suspension design for more all round riding. I run a 110-140mm adjustable fork and a dropper on mine for versatility.
I was tempted to buy a Trek ticket S frame and use the parts from the jester but in all honesty I don't use the Jester half enough to warrant it.
Ticket S frames are an absolute steal at £1100 though.

 

[Gary]

Out of interest. What do you like about plus tyres? I absolutely can't stand the things.

 

[R120]

On an E bike i like them, couldn't give you an absolute reason why but traction seems a lot better with a plus tyre on an e-mtb than with a 29'r, on a non e-bike i prefer a more normal size 27.5

 

[Gary]

I still prefer the handling of 26". I don't care about rollover speed or ultimate grip. I just find 26" much much more fun.
I absolutely cant stand the unsupportive vague/foldy nature the edge of a low pressure plus/fat tyre gives in turns.