skyhigh levo
New Member
I had the common motor belt failure on my 2019 Levo early this year at 1100 miles and had tough time getting it replaced. The dealer I purchased from was closed because of covid and I had to find another dealer that would replace it. In total it took about 5 weeks to get it fixed and I had to pay the dealer to do it. They first wanted me to pay for all the labor at their normal shop rate. This surprised me so I called rider care to see if they could help out. Eventually the dealer changed his stance and only charged me a small admin fee, which I agreed to for two reasons. First was I knew if I didn't the bike would not get fixed until my dealer was able to open again which was going be several months. I also understand that labor is not included in the warranty. I learned this when my motor power cable failed and I had to go to different dealer to get this replaced.
I am a retired industrial automation engineer and I am very capable of repairing most anything myself. I have been around MTB's for 45+ years, built several from the frame up, and have never taken a bike to shop for repair unless is was a warranty issue that required replacement of hardware. I have an extensive collection of tools including all of the bicycle specific tools to do whatever job comes up, if I don't have a tool I will either buy it or fabricate it myself. For this project I used my lathe to fab the brose tool for removing the spider from the motor and purchased a BBT-18 for the nut that holds it in place. Turns out I did not need the brose tool or even a puller, the spider came off easily when just pulling with my fingers.
Not long after the motor replacement I started to get a creaking sound when pedaling, sounded exactly like the sound a standard MTB makes when the bottom bracket bearing need to be greased. The harder I pedaled the worse it got.
I started by checking various things and eliminating them one at at time. I have two Levos which gives me the luxury of being able to swap parts when needed. I eliminated several potential sources which included crank arms, pedals, seat post, headset, steering stem, handlebars and forks. I did not find anything that made a difference.
Next I started looking at the motor. First check was the mounting bolts and to my surprise they were loose. I had to tighten them over 1/2 turn before they reached the recommended torque. I thought I surely found it. Took a quick test ride and it was a little better but still creaking I checked my other Levo and found they were all properly tightened. Its possible they loosed on their own but more likely they were never tightened. After a couple of rides the creaking was a bad as ever.
Next I looked at the front sprocket. After getting the proper tools to remove it I started to put a wrench on the BBT-18 to remove the nut and it was loose, probably could have taken it off by hand without the tool. First thing here I noticed is the mating surfaces were bone dry. Once again I thought I found it. I went ahead and removed the sprocket which also came off easily, cleaned and lightly greased the mating surfaces on the spline and the nut faces and torqued down to specs. To my surprise this did nothing, still creaks as loud as before.
Not real sure what to do next I called rider care hoping someone would have some advice. As usual they said to take it to a dealer. I tried to argue that I already found several things the dealer did wrong and they may have even been intentional since he was the one getting the short end of the warranty. I asked a few specific questions about grease during assembly since I found the dealer did not grease the spider. I have seen the service manual for replacing the motor and I knew the correct answer but wanted to see what they said. A specialist was consulted at rider care and I was initially told that nothing was to be greased when mounting the motor. I then told them to check their manual because the one I am looking at says you should grease the contact surfaces. They tried to contact the specialist again but after holding for 15 minutes they came back and said "sorry, he is not answering his phone" I asked for a call back when he was available but I was told that is not possible? I also asked if I could get a complete copy of the service manual which they also refused. I decided at this point I was going to remove the motor myself to see what I could find. I was also able to find the service manual on the internet fairly easily. To my surprise I now see when you can download it from this forum in one of the sticky threads.
Removing the motor was actually very easy, the manual does have a very detailed procedure for doing this. After removing the 6 nuts that motor mounting bolts thread into I found the problem. The four upper nuts were fine but the lower two rear nuts we installed wrong, they were jammed into the motor casting which prevented them from seating properly. This now made sense why the creaking decreased after tightening the motor mounting bolts but came back again after a ride or two. Fortunately there was no visible damage to the frame and I was able to get the nuts in place properly. I reassembled everything using the procedure in the manual and the YES, finally the creek is gone. I have a few hard rides in now and its rock solid, problem solved. I attached some pictures that show nut locations on the top which are fine and one of the bottom that shows the scars left by the improperly installed nut. All 4 top nuts were OK but both rear nuts were scared.
I also found something else that did not look right. The cover to the Brose motor looked like it had been leaking something. I looked close and I could see a slight gap in the cover. I first checked the screw nearest the leak and it was loose. The screw next to it was not as loose but still came out easily. The screws did not have any type of thread locker that I could see. Not sure what could be leaking out but it sure looks like something. I contacted rider care again and fortunately the same person I talked to before removing the motor took the call. I first told him I found the cause of the creaking, it was improper installation, and I was willing to send pictures to prove it. Then I told him what I found with the motor cover. He consulted with the specialist and came back with two possible causes. Could be just buildup from getting wet or more likely a leaking dropper post, which they have seen. I asked if I could send a picture that would likely debunk both of those theories but they declined. I asked if they knew if the bolts should have had thread locker and what should they be torqued to? They did not know and suggested I contact Brose. When I reassembled the bicycle I did not install any thread locker. I torqued down the bolt to a standard value for the diameter of the bolt and the gap in the cover was gone. I hope these bolts don't come loose again, I would have normally used medium strength locktite on this but someone could see this later and possible void the warranty.
The motor cover possible leakage picture is before I found the bolts were loose. If it was just water I would think it would be all over, not just at the gasket. If it was the seat post you would see leakage coming from the top of the motor. I also added a picture of the inside of the frame. I originally took this to show that motor mount surfaces look like they were never greased, it clearly shows its not a leaking dropper post.
I Hope I get some type of response on what appears to be a problem with the Brose motor. I am very disappointed that rider care did not show any interest in seeing these pictures. I told them I would post them so here they are.
I am a retired industrial automation engineer and I am very capable of repairing most anything myself. I have been around MTB's for 45+ years, built several from the frame up, and have never taken a bike to shop for repair unless is was a warranty issue that required replacement of hardware. I have an extensive collection of tools including all of the bicycle specific tools to do whatever job comes up, if I don't have a tool I will either buy it or fabricate it myself. For this project I used my lathe to fab the brose tool for removing the spider from the motor and purchased a BBT-18 for the nut that holds it in place. Turns out I did not need the brose tool or even a puller, the spider came off easily when just pulling with my fingers.
Not long after the motor replacement I started to get a creaking sound when pedaling, sounded exactly like the sound a standard MTB makes when the bottom bracket bearing need to be greased. The harder I pedaled the worse it got.
I started by checking various things and eliminating them one at at time. I have two Levos which gives me the luxury of being able to swap parts when needed. I eliminated several potential sources which included crank arms, pedals, seat post, headset, steering stem, handlebars and forks. I did not find anything that made a difference.
Next I started looking at the motor. First check was the mounting bolts and to my surprise they were loose. I had to tighten them over 1/2 turn before they reached the recommended torque. I thought I surely found it. Took a quick test ride and it was a little better but still creaking I checked my other Levo and found they were all properly tightened. Its possible they loosed on their own but more likely they were never tightened. After a couple of rides the creaking was a bad as ever.
Next I looked at the front sprocket. After getting the proper tools to remove it I started to put a wrench on the BBT-18 to remove the nut and it was loose, probably could have taken it off by hand without the tool. First thing here I noticed is the mating surfaces were bone dry. Once again I thought I found it. I went ahead and removed the sprocket which also came off easily, cleaned and lightly greased the mating surfaces on the spline and the nut faces and torqued down to specs. To my surprise this did nothing, still creaks as loud as before.
Not real sure what to do next I called rider care hoping someone would have some advice. As usual they said to take it to a dealer. I tried to argue that I already found several things the dealer did wrong and they may have even been intentional since he was the one getting the short end of the warranty. I asked a few specific questions about grease during assembly since I found the dealer did not grease the spider. I have seen the service manual for replacing the motor and I knew the correct answer but wanted to see what they said. A specialist was consulted at rider care and I was initially told that nothing was to be greased when mounting the motor. I then told them to check their manual because the one I am looking at says you should grease the contact surfaces. They tried to contact the specialist again but after holding for 15 minutes they came back and said "sorry, he is not answering his phone" I asked for a call back when he was available but I was told that is not possible? I also asked if I could get a complete copy of the service manual which they also refused. I decided at this point I was going to remove the motor myself to see what I could find. I was also able to find the service manual on the internet fairly easily. To my surprise I now see when you can download it from this forum in one of the sticky threads.
Removing the motor was actually very easy, the manual does have a very detailed procedure for doing this. After removing the 6 nuts that motor mounting bolts thread into I found the problem. The four upper nuts were fine but the lower two rear nuts we installed wrong, they were jammed into the motor casting which prevented them from seating properly. This now made sense why the creaking decreased after tightening the motor mounting bolts but came back again after a ride or two. Fortunately there was no visible damage to the frame and I was able to get the nuts in place properly. I reassembled everything using the procedure in the manual and the YES, finally the creek is gone. I have a few hard rides in now and its rock solid, problem solved. I attached some pictures that show nut locations on the top which are fine and one of the bottom that shows the scars left by the improperly installed nut. All 4 top nuts were OK but both rear nuts were scared.
I also found something else that did not look right. The cover to the Brose motor looked like it had been leaking something. I looked close and I could see a slight gap in the cover. I first checked the screw nearest the leak and it was loose. The screw next to it was not as loose but still came out easily. The screws did not have any type of thread locker that I could see. Not sure what could be leaking out but it sure looks like something. I contacted rider care again and fortunately the same person I talked to before removing the motor took the call. I first told him I found the cause of the creaking, it was improper installation, and I was willing to send pictures to prove it. Then I told him what I found with the motor cover. He consulted with the specialist and came back with two possible causes. Could be just buildup from getting wet or more likely a leaking dropper post, which they have seen. I asked if I could send a picture that would likely debunk both of those theories but they declined. I asked if they knew if the bolts should have had thread locker and what should they be torqued to? They did not know and suggested I contact Brose. When I reassembled the bicycle I did not install any thread locker. I torqued down the bolt to a standard value for the diameter of the bolt and the gap in the cover was gone. I hope these bolts don't come loose again, I would have normally used medium strength locktite on this but someone could see this later and possible void the warranty.
The motor cover possible leakage picture is before I found the bolts were loose. If it was just water I would think it would be all over, not just at the gasket. If it was the seat post you would see leakage coming from the top of the motor. I also added a picture of the inside of the frame. I originally took this to show that motor mount surfaces look like they were never greased, it clearly shows its not a leaking dropper post.
I Hope I get some type of response on what appears to be a problem with the Brose motor. I am very disappointed that rider care did not show any interest in seeing these pictures. I told them I would post them so here they are.
