Carbon fiber wheels: Waste of money or totally worth it?

[PumpinIron]

I've never ridden a MTB with carbon fiber wheels, let alone an EMTB.

I have however gone from aluminum wheels on my Aprilia motorcycle to carbon fiber wheels, and the difference is astounding. The motorcycle wants to almost fall in to every corner and takes hardly any effort to lean.

Of course that's a motorcycle and this is an EMTB.

But that begs the question, are there any noticeable gains to be had from a good set of carbon fiber wheels for an EMTB, or are the gains dismal at best?

Just trying to see if this is a worthwhile upgrade to pursue. In other words, are the differences night and day, or just very subtle?

 

[Rusty]

The difference on a road going motorcycle is not as noticeable as on a track bike. I am guessing some sort of similarity with bicycles.
On a MTB I know several gun racers that believe the carbon rims transfer power better as they see minute improvements in back to back lap times. A couple also believe when doing 12/24 hr races they feel better for longer on the carbon hoops. Valid points? I think, just like many modifications if you believe there is an improvement there will be and if you think "Nah, this doesn't work" then it will not.
Like many things, several subtle improvements can combine to give something noticeable.

Also - see thread
Are carbon rims worth it on EMTBs

 

[PumpinIron]

The difference on a road going motorcycle is not as noticeable as on a track bike. I am guessing some sort of similarity with bicycles.
On a MTB I know several gun racers that believe the carbon rims transfer power better as they see minute improvements in back to back lap times. A couple also believe when doing 12/24 hr races they feel better for longer on the carbon hoops. Valid points? I think, just like many modifications if you believe there is an improvement there will be and if you think "Nah, this doesn't work" then it will not.
Like many things, several subtle improvements can combine to give something noticeable.

Also - see thread
Are carbon rims worth it on EMTBs

I'm not sure, this motorcycle is 100% road driven, and I can tell you the difference is absolutely night and say. I mean out of this world just how much of a difference it makes. Of course these motorcycle wheels are much heavier by default, so maybe that has something to do with it.

From all the research I am doing, it seems that carbon rims may offer some small improvements, but I'm not sure that those "improvements" justify the high price, particularly on an EMTB.

 

[Santa]

On my regular bike (Pivot Firebird 29) going from the stock alloy wheels (really good ones, DT M1700) to high end carbon wheels (enve M30), the difference was night and day. It's like the bike suddenly came alive and became so poppy and playful and light, compared to the more planted feel for the alloys.

On an EMTB, so far not as obvious. Last winter I got to demo side-by-side the Decoy Comp with e13 alloy wheels vs the Decoy Pro Race with e13 carbon wheels and the difference was not that big.

So was this because it was EMTB vs analog bike, or was it because the enve's are in a different ball game? I don't know. But the only way to know for sure would be to try enve's on a Decoy. Or the e13s on the Firebird.

I'll report back if that ever happens!

 

[PumpinIron]

On my regular bike (Pivot Firebird 29) going from the stock alloy wheels (really good ones, DT M1700) to high end carbon wheels (enve M30), the difference was night and day. It's like the bike suddenly came alive and became so poppy and playful and light, compared to the more planted feel for the alloys.

On an EMTB, so far not as obvious. Last winter I got to demo side-by-side the Decoy Comp with e13 alloy wheels vs the Decoy Pro Race with e13 carbon wheels and the difference was not that big.

So was this because it was EMTB vs analog bike, or was it because the enve's are in a different ball game? I don't know. But the only way to know for sure would be to try enve's on a Decoy. Or the e13s on the Firebird.

I'll report back if that ever happens!

Thanks for this!

Right now I'm just not sure I can justify spending the money on a nice set of carbon wheels. I want them, but I keep hearing and reading that they don't make much of a difference on EMTBs. Why that is, I'm not exactly sure. Maybe it's because the motor makes up for so much that you just don't notice changes like you would on an analog bike.

Unless someone tells me otherwise, I'm leaning towards carbon wheels being a waste of money for an EMTB.

 

[STATO]

On my XC bike i (feel like) i can accelerate faster with lighter carbon rims, on an already light wheel/tyre system.

On my ebike i can accelerate faster than the carbon wheel XC bike. But the wheel/tyre on the ebike is heavy, changing the rim to carbon will save less of a percentage weight of the system compared to the xc system. That said putting lighter tyres on even and ebike does make a difference, so maybe if your carbon rim is a lot lighter than current alu, it might make a difference.

Comfort wise, i think it will be a stretch to feel much benefit in this instance (i think im quite receptive to changes normally) given the central weight and long travel suspension, assuming you are talking e-enduro style bike not a SL specialized etc.

So id say, they will make a difference, just not as much. How much value? well id say ENVE are not worth it normally anyway and plenty still pay the money

 

[cozzy]

Personally I dislike them. I spend a truckload of cash on a topend santa cruz bronson & didnt like it for many reasons, one of them was harshness.
I sold it soon after but kept the reserve wheelset & fitted them to my kenevo. It turned that into a harsh riding bike also.
I wish i had saved the money to be honest.

 

[STATO]

Personally I dislike them. I spend a truckload of cash on a topend santa cruz bronson & didnt like it for many reasons, one of them was harshness.
I sold it soon after but kept the reserve wheelset & fitted them to my kenevo. It turned that into a harsh riding bike also.
I wish i had saved the money to be honest.

Thats a good point, many rims are built for stiffness, or are stiff as a result of durability requirements. Not all are like this, just as not all carbon bikes are stiff and harsh. For strong reliable carbon for an ebike i think youd struggle to get comfort and reliability, but maybe harshness isnt as bad on a ebike due to the weight. There doesnt seem to be many reviews out there that actually discuss it and compare to normal bike experiences that most bikers could relate to.

 

[R120]

The reduction in unsprung mass on a super bike by swapping to Carbon wheels is way more noticeable than on an MTB, to the extent I dont thing they are comparable, as there are so many different factors at play - not only the overall mass, but also the relative speeds. The faster you go on a motorbike, the more you can appreciate the reduction in unsprung mass, so for example if you are entering a fast corner at 80mph and exiting at 100-120mph the reduction in weight will be noticeable, as will the improved performance of the suspension and therefore grip.

With an MTB you also have to throw in the equation the number of spokes and rim profile, as some wheels are designed to be light an stiff, others are aiming for more compliance, not necessarily less weight. Lighter tyres and going tubeless will make more of a noticeable difference.

On an EMTB, the ratio of unsprung mass to overall weight is already considerably higher than on a normal MTB, meaning that any gains are minimal, if at all perceivable between a high end Alloy wheel and a decent carbon one. Choice of tyre and rolling resistance of said tyre, and also size of tyre are going to be far more noticeable. One of the flip sides to the added weight of EMTB's is they have a much better unsprung mass ration that a normal MTB.

Of course if you have a heavy basic wheels set you will notice going to a lighter high end wheelset, but going from a decent alloy set to a carbon one I would argue unless you are a top rider who has made an informed decision on the carbon wheels based on preference of ride characteristics, along with the tyre choice paired with the wheelset, you won't.

The holy grail of MTB wheels is light weight, lateral stiffness, but an extent of vertical compliance

 

[Steve940]

Waste of money...most trick bits are,cleverly marketed fo make joe public believe these new expensive parts will make you even faster just like some pro lol

 

[Ted]

Easy. If you want them get them. Life is short.

 

[R120]

I have a general aversion to spending big money on wheels, which from my experience get fecked up no matter what - I just dont see the point in blowing big money on what is essentially a disposable part with a limited lifespan, especially when there are so many high quality wheels at reasonable prices.

 

[Rich the gasman]

Had my carbon reserves when I had my levo (now on mega tower). Total night and day feeling between alloy wheels. Not harsh at all, every bike I’ve had them there all feel better, quick uptake, quicker in corners, very strong and trust them more than alloy plus life time guarantee . ride them in the lakes, Scotland, many uplift days, weeks biking in Spain and not a single problem. I’m 105kg kitted up as well.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

The reduction in unsprung mass on a super bike by swapping to Carbon wheels is way more noticeable than on an MTB, to the extent I dont thing they are comparable, as there are so many different factors at play - not only the overall mass, but also the relative speeds. The faster you go on a motorbike, the more you can appreciate the reduction in unsprung mass, so for example if you are entering a fast corner at 80mph and exiting at 100-120mph the reduction in weight will be noticeable, as will the improved performance of the suspension and therefore grip.

With an MTB you also have to throw in the equation the number of spokes and rim profile, as some wheels are designed to be light an stiff, others are aiming for more compliance, not necessarily less weight. Lighter tyres and going tubeless will make more of a noticeable difference.

On an EMTB, the ratio of unsprung mass to overall weight is already considerably higher than on a normal MTB, meaning that any gains are minimal, if at all perceivable between a high end Alloy wheel and a decent carbon one. Choice of tyre and rolling resistance of said tyre, and also size of tyre are going to be far more noticeable. One of the flip sides to the added weight of EMTB's is they have a much better unsprung mass ration that a normal MTB.

Of course if you have a heavy basic wheels set you will notice going to a lighter high end wheelset, but going from a decent alloy set to a carbon one I would argue unless you are a top rider who has made an informed decision on the carbon wheels based on preference of ride characteristics, along with the tyre choice paired with the wheelset, you won't.

The holy grail of MTB wheels is light weight, lateral stiffness, but an extent of vertical compliance

exactly this!! Couldn’t have said it better if I tried. In regards to motorbike wheels. Couldn’t comment on mtb ones as haven’t tried.

I’ve also seen carbon wheels after crashes. Never pretty.

couldn’t imagine spending big money on them for a mtb then smashing them over rocks ? unless you was at the very top level and needed marginal gains.

although I’m sure they are designed for purpose ??‍ Surely they are more prone to failure???

 

[PumpinIron]

No carbon fiber wheels for me.

I'll stick with aluminum ones and use the money elsewhere.

On my motorcycle carbon wheels make an astounding difference, but like @R120 said, I don't think the two can be compared.

I'll use the money on some better brakes

 

[steve_sordy]

I would not trust CF wheel rims on an mtb. Road bikes yes, no problem.

The weight difference of a CF rim vs a good quality alloy rim cannot be that great. I don't know the numbers, but I'm guessing that choice of tyre will swamp that difference.

 

[YokoOno]

I'm a fan of carbon wheels on my analog bikes.

But on the e-MTB, I'd much sooner spend the money on upgrading the suspension

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Bargain set of Carbon wheels here. These are going on my lightweight SL build.

J E James Cycles | We Evolved To Ride

Mountain, Road, Hybrid & Electric Bikes | Cycle Clothing | Cycle Accessories

www.jejamescycles.com

 

[R120]

Bargain set of Carbon wheels here. These are going on my lightweight SL build.

J E James Cycles | We Evolved To Ride

Mountain, Road, Hybrid & Electric Bikes | Cycle Clothing | Cycle Accessories

www.jejamescycles.com

What are you running at the moment? The HX1501?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

What are you running at the moment? The HX1501?

Yes

 

[R120]

So about 400g lighter? Interestingly my DT m1900 are 1.9kg for the pair in 27,5, but it’s a smaller wheel size of course

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

So about 400g lighter? Interestingly my DT m1900 are 1.9kg for the pair in 27,5, but it’s a smaller wheel size of course

Yes, 400g lighter I believe. The HX series of wheels are not the lightest, but built for ebikes / increased loads. The HXC1200 are rated up to 150 KG. It's a press / test set that DT Swiss are providing.

I am hoping to get the Levo SL to around 15.9KG, with a 160mm fork, proper trail / enduro setup.

 

[R120]

Yes, 400g lighter I believe. The HX series of wheels are not the lightest, but built for ebikes / increased loads. The HXC1200 are rated up to 150 KG. It's a press / test set that DT Swiss are providing.

I am hoping to get the Levo SL to around 15.9KG, with a 160mm fork, proper trail / enduro setup.

Yeah I saw you post up the build as is in the other thread, weight its at is pretty amazing given you haven't gone all weight weenie on it as yet

 

[Rich the gasman]

Yes, 400g lighter I believe. The HX series of wheels are not the lightest, but built for ebikes / increased loads. The HXC1200 are rated up to 150 KG. It's a press / test set that DT Swiss are providing.

I am hoping to get the Levo SL to around 15.9KG, with a 160mm fork, proper trail / enduro setup.

your a convert to light bikes now ???

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

your a convert to light bikes now ???

Ha! Need a lightweight, mid weight and heavyweight ?‍?

 

[Zimmerframe]

These are going on my lightweight SL build.

Does this suggest you're also planning on building a special "heavy" SL ? 25kg's ? That will confuse people !!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Does this suggest you're also planning on building a special "heavy" SL ? 25kg's ? That will confuse people !!

Levo SL with Boxxer forks maybe?!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Levo SL with Boxxer forks maybe?!

Even with 180 at both ends it's still not a heavy bike ...

 

[Pabs]

Carbon rims are like carbon bars......and alloy bars....and ally rims, There are good ones and there are bad ones. All are just really balancing the compromising act of comfort vs performance.

I've been riding Derby rims on my MTB since 2016 and I'm very pleased with their characteristics, so much so that they have traveled across 3 frames in that time and been converted from non boost to boost. I'll be keeping them till I manage to snap them and its not through the want of trying. As mentioned on a normal MTB the difference really was pronounced, but It would be more hidden on an EMTB, I would imagine, as I've yet to ride a carbon rimmed eeb.

That said, I'm still toying with the idea of trying a lighter custom built front just to help get the front up a touch easier in the future. I can see me going back the the old faithful rim for the task.

 

[PumpinIron]

What's interesting is that when looking at DT Swiss wheels, some of the aluminum MTB wheels are almost just as light as the carbon MTB wheels.

I suppose that's even more reason to just use a nice, aluminum wheel.