Article Can you trust an eMTB Motor in 2021?

[Mr-EPIC-3]

I do a lite spray of water to wash the frame, fork, drivetrain and a electric cleaners on the motor & battery, see the links below.

https://www.crcindustries.com/products/auto-electrical-system.html

https://www.crcindustries.com/products/lectra-cleanr-3000-electric-parts-cleaner-19-wt-oz-retail-1750536.html

https://www.crcindustries.com/products/qd-174-electronic-cleaner-4-5-wt-oz-05101.html

 

[Amoto65]

I do a lite spray of water to wash the frame, fork, drivetrain and a electric cleaners on the motor & battery, see the links below.

Electrical Parts Cleaners and More | CRC Industries

CRC Industries provides a wide selection of electrical system products. Including electrical parts cleaners, dielectric greases, and more.

www.crcindustries.com

Lectra-Clean® 3000 Electric Parts Cleaner, 19 Wt Oz - Retail

An aggressive cleaner specifically for energized electrical equipment. Non-flammable formula dissolves grease, oil, dirt, & wax without having to remove parts.

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QD® Electronic Cleaner, 4.5 Wt Oz

A petroleum distillate / alcohol based precision cleaner designed as an alternative to CFC based cleaners. Ideal for applications where lower flashpoint materials can be tolerated. Cost effective, plastic safe & residue free.

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Wet wipes on mine after every ride and then a quick polish with a bit of GT85 sprayed on a cloth.

 

[nasamorpheus]

Well Brose must be the least reliable , I have spoken with LBS , after 2000 miles prepare for a change. Is it true? Who knows, for one person I know it is. He is on 5th motor. There is no Shimano owner on 5th motor I believe I won't praise Bosch but one of the LBS who is selling many different motors said to me that Bosch is testing motors for 30.000 miles. I was shocked, I really can't believe it.

 

[1oldfart]

Well Brose must be the least reliable , I have spoken with LBS , after 2000 miles prepare for a change. Is it true? Who knows, for one person I know it is. He is on 5th motor. There is no Shimano owner on 5th motor I believe I won't praise Bosch but one of the LBS who is selling many different motors said to me that Bosch is testing motors for 30.000 miles. I was shocked, I really can't believe it.

The longevity depends on the design. Some favor very small, very light.
I prefer VERY DEPENDABLE. My bikes and Ebikes are not wasting time in the shops.
No Brose, no Shimano for me until they prove they can last problem free.

 

[Ymersmoelf]

My mates and i all take turns taking the piss at each other. Who will have a breakdown today?!? The four of us run different motor brands and ALL have failed during the last six months. It's the warranty or lack of that sets the brands apart. My downtime was five days.... so i am still laughing

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

I have the Shimano E7000 motor and have 3400 miles and a couple of eDuro races on it with no issues (Knock-On-Wood).

At some point I figure the bearings in the motor will need to serviced or replaced.

 

[Waynetta]

2800 miles and still smiling with the Levo SL ..... must add I’m only 10 stone (63kg) never shift when under full load and only use turbo for about 3 mins per ride. best thing Ive ever bought and
Love every minute riding it.

 

[Eddy Current]

Yes you can trust. No all are created equal.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

It would be interesting to know % of the time eMTBers are in a mode level on their motors.
Just to see how it effect the life span of a motor, which I am sure it does.

For most of the riding I do in my area this how I use my motor ECO=40% Trail=50% Boost=10%

 

[1oldfart]

It would be interesting to know % of the time eMTBers are in a mode level on their motors.
Just to see how it effect the life span of a motor, which I am sure it does.

For most of the riding I do in my area this how I use my motor ECO=40% Trail=50% Boost=10%

The thing is different manufacturers are not equals, even one company has differences with models, generations, et...
Many modify the out of factory *preset levels*.
Some will drain their battery after work they know 90 minutes is all they have so it is just not practical.
Obviously a rider with a fullface 170 mm suspension probably is rarely in eco mode.
I am about 2% on boost, my Yamaha/Giant has 5 levels, i am most of the time on 3.

 

[Bearing Man]

Yes you can trust. No all are created equal.

Done quite a few of these Rocky Mountain motors now. They usually shatter or crack the clutch bearing, but also had a few with electrical issues and sensor failures... Perhaps some are created more equal than others ?

 

[smtkelly]

Would going wireless help with sealing? Seems connections are one of the weak links. Being able to seal sensors/shifters might mean you could seal those units better and have a few less connections by the motor which then you could use the retail estate to add bulkier connectors with better IP rating.

Could also open the door to the motor talk/combine to other wireless systems like AXS and shimano's offering if indeed its a thing. Would be interesting to see dropper/mode in one unit and derailer/sensor in another.

Also ref those road motors my guess is they are experience wear at a lower rate but at some point they'll catch up with the mtb's issues and manufacturers will have to address it. Maybe the next leaps in motor tech will be competing on Ingress ratings.

Still all said and done would anyone want to go back to not having a motor?

 

[Eddy Current]

Done quite a few of these Rocky Mountain motors now. They usually shatter or crack the clutch bearing, but also had a few with electrical issues and sensor failures... Perhaps some are created more equal than others ?

Im on the FB group and most reported problem is a bit of play on some jockey (guess is that one you say) that you can service yourself. Honestly is a very reliable motor it only spin at 1200 rpm, is cranks/motor separate and I think is more robust and less problematic than the others, despite all the bits it have. No one is 100% free for sure.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

The thing is different manufacturers are not equals, even one company has differences with models, generations, et...
Many modify the out of factory *preset levels*.
Some will drain their battery after work they know 90 minutes is all they have so it is just not practical.
Obviously a rider with a fullface 170 mm suspension probably is rarely in eco mode.
I am about 2% on boost, my Yamaha/Giant has 5 levels, i am most of the time on 3.

Yea, motor manufactures all have different mode levels (Assist/Nm) and eMTBers all use the levels differently. Still be interesting to hear from other riders on the % mode level they ride in, mileage on their motor and when the motor failed.

 

[1oldfart]

Yea, motor manufactures all have different mode levels (Assist/Nm) and eMTBers all use the levels differently. Still be interesting to hear from other riders on the % mode level they ride in, mileage on their motor and when the motor failed.

OK here is my data. Bought a Yamaha/Giant 2020 130/120 suspension new 9 months ago.
Probably 3,000 miles, nada, no issue. I changed the chain 1 time. My kind of bike.
It has 5 levels i am probably 95% of the time in medium(3).
I think the big suspension is more likely to use boost(max assist) or close to it.

 

[Yoak]

My Bosch shoved an Error 500 code a few days ago, and stopped working.
Got the Rail 9.8 last may and had just passed 2000km. Did a diagnosis at a LBS and he said every possibly error came up. Both battery an motor. Sent the info off to Bosch, the day after he told me a replacement motor was on its way. 1-2 weeks delivery.
At least the customer service was great. And I didn’t even by my bike in that shoo

 

[CjP]

Km/miles really means F all. Type of terrain/rider abuse is far more relevant to motor longevity.

Can I trust a motor in 2021?

No you cant, but can you trust a chain? A tire? A hub?, Suspension?, Your own common sense?

Just ride the bike and don’t forget to smile as you wheelie past analogues on the way up.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Km/miles really means F all. Type of terrain/rider abuse is far more relevant to motor longevity.

Can I trust a motor in 2021?

No you cant, but can you trust a chain? A tire? A hub?, Suspension?, Your own common sense?

Just ride the bike and don’t forget to smile as you wheelie past analogues on the way up.

Yes I do agree with rider abuse & type of terrain as a another variable to motor life-span.
eMTB motors are like the 2-stroke motors of the 70s, ride them hard too Lock-Up.

 

[Yoak]

My bike has been ridden hard since May last year, and all through the winter (in the snow -10-15c). Only trails, never on the road? So I’m not complaining, and just happy to get a new motor under warranty

 

[ProDean]

Hi everyone, great reading your comments and the Video at the beginning was very useful. I started riding MTB when they first came out and had a Hybike all mountain with a bosh motor. The chip was mainly the problem with water ingress, but eventually I did have to replace the motor. I sold that and bought a Turbo Levo 2019 I an on the third motor on that. I have bought a new Turbo Levo 2020 and after 2 months needed a new motor! I am annoyed that Brose have not sorted the issues, however if you view a company called speedy bearings they will do a great job upgrading your motor bearings and clutches and sealing the motor. Problem is your motor has lost its warranty. I have both bikes now just in case one motor goes and both are chipped. totally over the top I know. Bye the way I always ride on Turbo full power, I don't think it makes any difference. I do about 70 miles a week so the maintenance on these bikes is quite high, chains and rear sprockets. I never push on changing up or down now to try and save the chain. Cheers

 

[Zimmerframe]

Hi everyone, great reading your comments and the Video at the beginning was very useful. I started riding MTB when they first came out and had a Hybike all mountain with a bosh motor. The chip was mainly the problem with water ingress, but eventually I did have to replace the motor. I sold that and bought a Turbo Levo 2019 I an on the third motor on that. I have bought a new Turbo Levo 2020 and after 2 months needed a new motor! I am annoyed that Brose have not sorted the issues, however if you view a company called speedy bearings they will do a great job upgrading your motor bearings and clutches and sealing the motor. Problem is your motor has lost its warranty. I have both bikes now just in case one motor goes and both are chipped. totally over the top I know. Bye the way I always ride on Turbo full power, I don't think it makes any difference. I do about 70 miles a week so the maintenance on these bikes is quite high, chains and rear sprockets. I never push on changing up or down now to try and save the chain. Cheers

Welcome to the Forum. You might want to change your location (hover over a user name) so it doesn't say your postcode. You don't know who might use it to work out where a bike could be stolen from. Just change it to your town or something.

 

[ProDean]

Thank you I will change those details

 

[cjm_wales]

If you're UK based and ever have a problem again with Shimano get in touch with Madison customer care on 01908 326032. You should be able to deal with them direct providing you can send them proof of purchase.

This is what I've done - and had to re-do today. Their firmware fix did nothing - my E010 errors are back.

I've told them it's a new motor or a refund.

 

[RickBullotta]

Can you trust an air shock in 2021? A tubeless tire? A wireless derailleur? We take a calculated risk any time we're 10 miles out on the MTB/eMTB that this stuff won't let us down. I find the drive system on an eMTB to be the least risky of the above, since you'll still likely get home without walking much.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I agree with everything said in this article except the hope that "individuals will likely be walking into the same consumer experience expected from a modern day smartphone or flat screen TV. Switch it on, and it just works, every…single…day."

Uhhh... No. No for SEVERAL very big reasons!

1) Smartphones & TVs are largely solid-state devices. Bad designs aside, the only reasons they have for hardware failure are heat buildup, & user error (smashed against hard surface). In contrast, ebike drivetrains rely on many moving parts, most of which take impact loads from a variety of directions under the course of *normal* wear (not just when "dropped"). Motors with circuits & moving parts can never be as reliable as similar circuits without moving parts. *Never.* Literally impossible.

A TV might have some fans which could fail, but even then a fan is trivial to service compared to high power drive components.

Comparing ebike drivetrain reliability to solid-state devices is totally unrealistic.

2) *WHAT* device exactly "just works every single day"?!? I have never seen one. Perhaps you have no experience of TV service... In the last three years, the most expensive TVs & cheapest I've seen, had THE SAME (idiotic) design issues; fancy features & crap quality, across the board, in every brand I've found. We're talking every conceivable problem from loose factory connections, connections lacking proper strain relief, inadequate cooling by design (so quiet & efficient!), backlighting that rapidly becomes anything but uniform, power switches that have the infrared receiver built in so that both fail together; problems *no* device reaching high-volume production should have. (And these are just the hardware problems with TVs.)

Nearly all TVs are ready-made garbage, designed to be sent to the landfill in far less time than all but the crappiest cathode-ray-tubes TVs of old.

Cellphones are even worse. Most cellphones are designed to break easily (yes, including those with "hardened" screens; LOL). You know what material lets wireless through but doesn't shatter like a glass backing? *Plastic*, but that "felt cheap" supposedly; so glass cases it is! Again, idiotic design intended to fail.

If your phone's casing needs a case around it, that's a bad case! Phones can be made durable but aren't, because the market has come to expect something with a new "must have" feature every few years.

For a more realistic reliability comparison, look at motorcycles: Many motorcycle riders hardly get a few thousand miles before bad design or cheap materials cause something to fail; some others go tens of thousands of hours without major issue, on routine service alone... but in general, many motorcycle brands tend to spend a lot of time in the shop. Compare the difference in hours ridden per hour of shop time, between a Triumph Rocket Triple, & a Honda Valkyrie. Some riders have better or worse luck, but in general, the Honda gets more time on the road. Why? Because Triumph can sell bikes on factors like looks & sentiment (sentiments like "US brand" or "love their old bikes"), whereas a new motorcycle from Honda has to be built *better* than an otherwise comparable Triumph, to sell equally well.

Many auto aficionados will tell you "never buy the first year of a model" but consumers do that *constantly*, often in the misguided hope that a new model will magically shed the (often intentional) problems plaguing an earlier model. Worse, we often buy based on styling or non-critical features, rather than seeking the most reliable.

Which brings us yet again to the real problem: Features are prioritized over quality, in modern manufacturing.

The solution may sound crazy, because it reduces manufacturer profits that could go to R&D:

Buy used!

Buying *only* used goods, helps build a healthier market in multiple ways:

1) Funds the repair & maintenance infrastructure we *need* to keep our vehicles on the road.

2) Reduces new sales; again, this may sound counterintuitive, but manufacturers selling new equipment year after year have little financial motivation to offer good quality *or* support. Reducing sales of new models, ensures that parts sales to service centers remain a significant & important source of revenue. Car dealerships make a lot of money off service; often much more than off new sales! "Right to repair" gets lobbied against heavily for exactly this reason.

3) Aftermarket service & mods are essential ways of improving reliability. Buying used leaves (a lot!) more in your budget for upgrades & maintenance. The more money we pump into our local shops' labor & parts budgets, *instead* of new-unit sales to manufacturers, the harder it becomes for a manufacturer to stay in business selling crap that can scarcely be kept running. Those who produce parts & long-term upgrades aplenty, are allowed to flourish; whereas in a "buy new" market, they'd be wasting money.

Bottom line:
TVs & smartphones *aren't* reliable, nor built to last, & the reason is consumers buying new units instead of having old ones repaired.

 

[ggrin]

Currently suffering dreaded shimano e8000 e010 error intermittently, usually after 14 to 20 miles. 3800 miles on this motor which is out of warranty. LBS says I should sell it.
Big issue is that no one is offering repair or replacement service, but I really like my bike and would be happy to put a new motor on it if I got a 2 year warranty.
Certainly won't be getting another shimano motor, bosch might break but at least they are fixable/replaceable.

 

[1oldfart]

Yup, Bosch and Yamaha(Giant) appear more reliable.

 

[Redbikejohn]

I was in a giant shop two days ago. 3yrs warranty on motor and is fully rebuildable. Seems OK to me. Might even buy one. My mate did.