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Article Can you trust an eMTB Motor in 2021?
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
yorkshire89
E*POWAH Master
Still early days but I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying you can trust a Shimano (or any other) motor in 2021.
Known a few EP8's getting the E010 error code and needing a new motor...
The pinkbike review of the SC Bullit even had it die on their test ride.
Known a few EP8's getting the E010 error code and needing a new motor...
The pinkbike review of the SC Bullit even had it die on their test ride.
It just gets muddy - no harm from it being muddy - just give the chain and drivetrain a clean, and wipe the dried dirt off the fork stanchions and shock shaft.
I wouldn't mind so much if i could just send my motor off to Madison. Choice with Vitus is to loose the whole bike for months in CRC warranty process or pay £100 per go for diag/removal/refit at Shimano Service Centre. Gets a bit expensive when the replacement motor only lasts 30 miles... LBS purchase essential for ebikes imo.
You don't have to send bike back to CRC, I warrantied my E-Sommett motor direct with Madison via LBS, we 10 day turnaround (though was pre covid).
If you're UK based and ever have a problem again with Shimano get in touch with Madison customer care on 01908 326032. You should be able to deal with them direct providing you can send them proof of purchase.
I wonder what the failure rates actually are? And at what mileages / time of use?
You only ever get people online saying when their motor has failed, not when its just working fine, so can be hard to judge. Or at least have a negatively biased view.
You only ever get people online saying when their motor has failed, not when its just working fine, so can be hard to judge. Or at least have a negatively biased view.
I know I am repeating myself here but this topic comes up in so many different threads!
I have not seen any EMTBs that have the electrical components and wiring adequately protected against the elements and that includes components inaccessible within the motor casing. There really is no excuse for that given experienced gained in other industries such as motor cycles, outboard motors, jetskis etc. External electrical components like controllers and switches should be hermetically sealed and connections into them made totally waterproof. Charging points need a complete re think, they are always a weak link. The motors include a PCB.....there should of course be no opportunity for water ingress into the area with the PCB and similarly the connections into it should be within a sealed area. Even so a PCB bolted to a metal surface subjected to big temperature differences and humidity will produce condensation unless sealed within a vacuum............so how a bike is stored also impacts on reliability ( you would not leave your laptop out in a cold garage in the middle of winter I suspect!!).
A good look over any new bike bought playing the "what if" game is well worthwhile because there are several DIY fixes you can devise to shorten the odds of a water ingress failure...............I know it should not be needed.............but the reality is that it pays dividends.
Similarly, knowing something about the mechanical construction and then riding with a degree of mechanical sympathy should not be necessary............but if you do..it pays dividends.
I have not seen any EMTBs that have the electrical components and wiring adequately protected against the elements and that includes components inaccessible within the motor casing. There really is no excuse for that given experienced gained in other industries such as motor cycles, outboard motors, jetskis etc. External electrical components like controllers and switches should be hermetically sealed and connections into them made totally waterproof. Charging points need a complete re think, they are always a weak link. The motors include a PCB.....there should of course be no opportunity for water ingress into the area with the PCB and similarly the connections into it should be within a sealed area. Even so a PCB bolted to a metal surface subjected to big temperature differences and humidity will produce condensation unless sealed within a vacuum............so how a bike is stored also impacts on reliability ( you would not leave your laptop out in a cold garage in the middle of winter I suspect!!).
A good look over any new bike bought playing the "what if" game is well worthwhile because there are several DIY fixes you can devise to shorten the odds of a water ingress failure...............I know it should not be needed.............but the reality is that it pays dividends.
Similarly, knowing something about the mechanical construction and then riding with a degree of mechanical sympathy should not be necessary............but if you do..it pays dividends.
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Blokie
Member
Bit of a misleading title IMHO. The issue being discussed is relevant to all brands, not just Shimano, and that is even mentioned in the video itself....
yorkshire89
E*POWAH Master
Atleast the title's been updated to remove '(YES!)' ?
I am thinking like you. Over the last 2 years i have read a lot about Ebikes reliability and issues and he is skipping many. The 7000 has a poor reputation and the 8000 also is seen has often as my third motor. We have to remember many isues happen in the first 3 months, even in the first 3 weeks. These motors/systems have design problems. There is no reason in my opinion to trust Shimano saw the light and from now on is putting reliability first. The lighter, smaller mentality is having a poor reliability track record.
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Bellefield
Active member
I think (touching wood) that the yamaha engines seem to be reliable. They obviously have a long track history of making engines and they don't make massive changes to them each year.
Thanks for your feedback. I probably should have made it clearer that I was only covering the problems I have personally experienced during the ownership of the fleet. Whilst I appreciate all ebikes have their problems (something I discussed in the accompanying article) I cannot have an informed opinion on the long term ownership experience of other brands. This is something I would like to cover in the future if I get the opportunity to run them long term.
Thanks for watching
May I ask which motor you found more reliable between the e7000 and e8000?Thanks for your feedback. I probably should have made it clearer that I was only covering the problems I have personally experienced during the ownership of the fleet. Whilst I appreciate all ebikes have their problems (something I discussed in the accompanying article) I cannot have an informed opinion on the long term ownership experience of other brands. This is something I would like to cover in the future if I get the opportunity to run them long term.
Thanks for watching
Thanks for the video BTW!
Personally speaking I've been through my bike (XDuro10) with a magnifying glass and made quite a few mods/improvements to wiring/routing/protection etc. The motor is sublime. So far so good.
I do agree, e-bikes are not without issues but I also think, at this stage of their evolution the more "hands-on" owner will come out on top.
My own feeling is the drive systems need to become user-serviceable, no more complex to service than a BB. The parts that can't be made like this need to be bomb proof.
I do agree, e-bikes are not without issues but I also think, at this stage of their evolution the more "hands-on" owner will come out on top.
My own feeling is the drive systems need to become user-serviceable, no more complex to service than a BB. The parts that can't be made like this need to be bomb proof.
Just haven't had any bearing issues yet. When I do I'll be quick to update this thread.
In my personal experience the E7000 is the more reliable motor and has shown very few error codes.
Many thanks!
How much use do the bikes tend to get before you sell them on? Do you tend to sell them on once at a certain mileage or just on time?
Sorry for the questions, just interested!
The original plan was to sell the fleet in the Autumn regardless of mileage or condition, however due to the state of the bike industry we have only been able to purchase 7 new bikes from Vitus this year so the plan is to run a handful of last years bikes until we can get hold of further stock. Generally our bikes are sold on in an excellent condition as most of our customers are pretty easy going on the bikes. We try not to attract the hardcore rider
towzer
Member
Does it mention anything about motor rebuildability/spares availability. I’m an ex shimano motor fan (as they don’t seem to be very rebuildable, as I understand it still no commercially available rebuilders for them, happy to be proven wrong as I think it would benefit all owners) whereas Brose and Bosch seem to be fairly rebuildable. I live in the very vague hope that the EU right to repair legislation will put an end to this.
EebStrider
Well-known member
I’ve done over 4000 miles on my Bosch powered Cube, and not had a single motor issue. Ridden in all weathers, spent a lot of the time either wet or full of silt, and it’s been 100% reliable.
No issues so far with my Shimano 8000.
Although l don't actually go out if it's raining, l have been out when the ground is wet, and it has rained while l have been out.
Last week it snowed while we were out on a ride, riding home the ground was covered in slush and the bike got water sprayed for about ten miles straight.
Maybe l should take the covers off and check the motor. But it's running fine with no issues or error codes.
Although l don't actually go out if it's raining, l have been out when the ground is wet, and it has rained while l have been out.
Last week it snowed while we were out on a ride, riding home the ground was covered in slush and the bike got water sprayed for about ten miles straight.
Maybe l should take the covers off and check the motor. But it's running fine with no issues or error codes.
Norcalsl
Active member
I've got over 1,000 trouble free miles on my Levo SL Mahle 1.1 motor. Haven't read about any motor failures for this motor on here. I'm hoping I lucked out. But the 2 year warranty is reassuring just the same.
Amoto65
New Member
I am the same just over 1,000 miles and no problems so far, As for failures I know of a few but then again my mate is a Specialized Dealer, However my experience with my Creo is fantastic (awesome motor)
Before we go around this circle again! We should know by now that motors fail for many different reasons and it's not always about how you clean your bike, or what terrain you ride. It's a whole raft of issues: The way you change gear, the way you transport your bike, how often you clean your bike, the way you store it etc. etc. Many of these little things currently make big differences to whether you've done 1,000 without any issues, or you've done 1,000 miles and your on your 4th motor.
The bottom line is that these motors are still in their infancy and they are still yet to be designed for an off road bike. And trust me, this is not as easy as you may think. Try to design a seal that does not increase friction for example. Or try to make a motor a few grams lighter than your competitor but still resist the crank clouting a rock at 20mph without breaking.
The hurdles are massive and complex. As always, I am not standing up for the manufacturers but I have been there and I know that to produce a new product or make a design change takes millions of pounds, about 5 years in time, and thousands of miles of testing and abuse.
And this is all for a market that is 10% of your overall sales (European road/commuter bike market consume around 90% of ebike motors). I know we all feel like the guinea pigs at the moment, but better products will come...
In the mean time, you've just got to bare in mind that you bought a mountain bike and not a tractor! It really surprises people when I tell them we often see road bike motors (not Brose) that have done in excess of 50,000 miles (80,000km) with no real issues! Bearings fine, plastic gears fine! For the market these motors were designed for, they are definitely fit for purpose.
Maybe if we didn't demand that a battery lasted for ever and a motor weighed as much as a field mouse, we would get exactly what we wanted... A watertight tractor gearbox
The bottom line is that these motors are still in their infancy and they are still yet to be designed for an off road bike. And trust me, this is not as easy as you may think. Try to design a seal that does not increase friction for example. Or try to make a motor a few grams lighter than your competitor but still resist the crank clouting a rock at 20mph without breaking.
The hurdles are massive and complex. As always, I am not standing up for the manufacturers but I have been there and I know that to produce a new product or make a design change takes millions of pounds, about 5 years in time, and thousands of miles of testing and abuse.
And this is all for a market that is 10% of your overall sales (European road/commuter bike market consume around 90% of ebike motors). I know we all feel like the guinea pigs at the moment, but better products will come...
In the mean time, you've just got to bare in mind that you bought a mountain bike and not a tractor! It really surprises people when I tell them we often see road bike motors (not Brose) that have done in excess of 50,000 miles (80,000km) with no real issues! Bearings fine, plastic gears fine! For the market these motors were designed for, they are definitely fit for purpose.
Maybe if we didn't demand that a battery lasted for ever and a motor weighed as much as a field mouse, we would get exactly what we wanted... A watertight tractor gearbox
DtEW
Active member
Re: clouting a rock at 20mph
Quite honestly, I'm surprised eMTB motors are not designed with torque limiters. I wasn't even thinking about nailing a rock with a crank (this is a relic of Aughts MTB relatively-high-BB mindset), but just bad shifts.
Quite honestly, I'm surprised eMTB motors are not designed with torque limiters. I wasn't even thinking about nailing a rock with a crank (this is a relic of Aughts MTB relatively-high-BB mindset), but just bad shifts.
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