BROSE 2.1 Failure w/ Data...‘19 Levo F36/DPX2: 3 Big Rides in 3 Weeks in The Western USA

[Jpzeroday]

For this bike’s intended and potential use, the stock RS suspension was not capable. The Fox upgrade has made this bike a beast. In the past three weeks I have had mine on three iconic black diamond trails in the Western USA:

Downieville Downhill: 28 miles w 3800’ in California

Relive 'Downieville Down After Packer Saddle Up'

The Hurl Cottonwood/Blue Diamond Las Vegas 30 miles w 3000’ in Nevada

Relive 'Techno & Hurl 30mi for 3k’ with 3 bars'

Two Elks and Game Creek Vail 25 miles w 4200’ in Colorado

Relive 'Game Creek, Two Elks Loop Minturn/Vail 25mis for 4'

I’m also getting 180mm of drop now from a OneUp 2.0 post.

The stock Roval wheels were not up to the challenge, either. Upgraded to DT Swiss XM1501 w 54t Ratchet. Maxxis Minion 2.6” DHRii front (16.5psi) AND rear (18.5psi) with Cushcore. Loads of traction and smashing chunky gnar fast & hard-proof. Downieville and the Nevada desert are ragged and janky riding. This combo holds up w no flats in 400+ miles so far.

TyreWiz makes tire pressure management easy for consistency.

 

[Jpzeroday]

EMTB Rides as epic physical efforts (The Hurl Ride):

 

[Jpzeroday]

BTW, I turn 50 in September...

 

[Jeb]

Dude, way to old to be doing those trails, on any bike!!! ?

 

[skypickle]

What app is that? Which device are you using to measure hr?

 

[muzzman1]

I have the same rig, but the comp alloy frame and I could not agree more. I still use the rovals, and have no issue with them until I bend them up. Mind you, I'm no pro, but since feb of this year I have logged over 2000 miles on it.
With the F36 and DPX2 it is a beast, way beyond my capabilities.
Edit, I'm 48 with bum knees c/o too much snowboarding in my youth. the E-mtb allows me to really get out there and have a blast while crushing my cardio goals.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Cardio app looks like Garmin smartphone app.

Isn't cushcore putting on a lot of mass in the whells ? Did it change the nimbleness ?

 

[Jpzeroday]

Use a Garmin Fenix 5. Love it.

I’ve had Cushcore since day 1. Lower tire pressure plus the damping of the insert gives the bike added effective travel and damping. Run it also on my yeti sb130.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

For this bike’s intended and potential use, the stock RS suspension was not capable. The Fox upgrade has made this bike a beast. In the past three weeks I have had mine on three iconic black diamond trails in the Western USA:

Downieville Downhill: 28 miles w 3800’ in California

Relive 'Downieville Down After Packer Saddle Up'

The Hurl Cottonwood/Blue Diamond Las Vegas 30 miles w 3000’ in Nevada

Relive 'Techno & Hurl 30mi for 3k’ with 3 bars'

Two Elks and Game Creek Vail 25 miles w 4200’ in Colorado

Relive 'Game Creek, Two Elks Loop Minturn/Vail 25mis for 4'

View attachment 16754

View attachment 16755

View attachment 16756

I’m also getting 180mm of drop now from a OneUp 2.0 post.

The stock Roval wheels were not up to the challenge, either. Upgraded to DT Swiss XM1501 w 54t Ratchet. Maxxis Minion 2.6” DHRii front (16.5psi) AND rear (18.5psi) with Cushcore. Loads of traction and smashing chunky gnar fast & hard-proof. Downieville and the Nevada desert are ragged and janky riding. This combo holds up w no flats in 400+ miles so far.

TyreWiz makes tire pressure management easy for consistency.

I agree, I changed to the Fox 36 fork in 160, DPX2 and HX1501 wheels. Big price though, but big changes. I feel like this bike could handle anything now.

 

[skypickle]

I’m switching out my front fork- the chunk here in the northeast ( rocks and ruts) bottoms out the revelation too fast. I’m tending towards a mazzer but I’ll have to drop its travel to 160. I’m on the fence about it or a non ebike Fox 36. I am 210 lbs fully geared plus 48 for the bike is pushing towards the maxed w it’s 37mm stanchions .I was also considering a fox x2 or a manitou Mara for a rear shock.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Well bad news...one day after the last big ride I described above, I have a dead motor.

Observations:

1. On the Downieville climb, ambient temps 25-33C (77-91f), ~2500’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 84C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

2. On the Two Elks climb, ambient temps 21-34C (70-93f), over 2000’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 82C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

During both rides, at no time did Mission Control nor the bike give a warning. Mission control noted no system health issues.

Within 4.5 miles of riding after the last ride, the motor failed with free spooling/slippage under power.

Bike is at LBS for motor replacement.

Three significant concerns:

1. Reliability of this bike once out of warranty.
2. Risk of Motor failure in remote location.
3. Potential negative impact of heat on battery reliability over time (that’s a lot of heat rising through the battery compartment).

I have two potential hypothesis:
1. Brose 2.1 and/or battery has heat management problems.
2. 19’ Levo carbon frame has heat management issues.

I have a Merida e160 900e that has over 1000 miles, a significant portion of that mileage has been high ambient heat riding 40C+ in the SW USA Deserts. That bike has a Shimano e8000 on an aluminum frame with an external battery. No reliability issues and it has endured heavier duty cycles than my ‘19 Levo.

I did note that the 2020 Merida eONE Sixty 900e 10k ( carbon frame and internal battery) has additional heat management features (frame venting). Seems they’ve observed an issue with heat in their development process.

I have a Decoy CF Pro Race on order. I am concerned that a carbon frame and internal battery are not a reliable configuration for heavy eMTB riding.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Downieville ride ambient temp and elevation graphs.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Two Elks ride ambient temperature and elevation graphs.

 

[mtbross]

That is a real bummer! I haven't purchased my first emtb quite yet...tossing between Levo and Rocky Mountain Altitude. Posts like this are concern for..well...all emtb's to be honest. At least Spec. have large dealer network. Hard to choose. Good luck with your issue.

 

[miPbiP]

For this bike’s intended and potential use, the stock RS suspension was not capable.

Wow ... that bike is > £7000 list price in the UK. Not capable ..... ???!!!

 

[Jeb]

Well bad news...one day after the last big ride I described above, I have a dead motor.

Observations:

1. On the Downieville climb, ambient temps 25-33C (77-91f), ~2500’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 84C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

2. On the Two Elks climb, ambient temps 21-34C (70-93f), over 2000’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 82C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

During both rides, at no time did Mission Control nor the bike give a warning. Mission control noted no system health issues.

Within 4.5 miles of riding after the last ride, the motor failed with free spooling/slippage under power.

Bike is at LBS for motor replacement.

Three significant concerns:

1. Reliability of this bike once out of warranty.
2. Risk of Motor failure in remote location.
3. Potential negative impact of heat on battery reliability over time (that’s a lot of heat rising through the battery compartment).

I have two potential hypothesis:
1. Brose 2.1 and/or battery has heat management problems.
2. 19’ Levo carbon frame has heat management issues.

I have a Merida e160 900e that has over 1000 miles, a significant portion of that mileage has been high ambient heat riding 40C+ in the SW USA Deserts. That bike has a Shimano e8000 on an aluminum frame with an external battery. No reliability issues and it has endured heavier duty cycles than my ‘19 Levo.

I did note that the 2020 Merida eONE Sixty 900e 10k ( carbon frame and internal battery) has additional heat management features (frame venting). Seems they’ve observed an issue with heat in their development process.

I have a Decoy CF Pro Race on order. I am concerned that a carbon frame and internal battery are not a reliable configuration for heavy eMTB riding.

Wow! When you noticed 180F motor, did you stop and let it cool? Or ride on? I believe there is a high temp cut off on the battery which would result in erratic motor activity. Thanks for posting! Would like to see our Rider Care member response. Regarding your motor heat hypothesis, do you have the motor “sponge” and mud flap that were installed on later 2019 bikes?

 

[Jpzeroday]

I did stop and let it cool.

I am not certain about the retrofits.

 

[Hitby]

Pretty sure I’ve read the Brose motors are happy up to 90+C so its unfortunate to hear of your woes. They are some pretty epic rides though and fingers crossed Spesh sort it without any problems.

 

[eboy]

Wow - thanks for sharing. Can't wait to hear the outcome on this. We may never know what exactly happened. Whether belt shredding or clutch and bearings going. Certainly heat seems to be the likely suspect. What will be interesting is the length of time it takes you to get bike back. I had an issue with my 2018 Turbo Levo motor and it took 6 weeks to get it back fixed and good to go with new motor. Good side is Spesh covered and bad side is we went through the ringer to prove the motor was bad... And the back and forth with the "Spesh to dealer service tickets online thing" took time... I will appreciate your keeping us informed.

 

[nobbyq]

are those xm1501's strong enough for an ebike , having a aluminium free hub etc too ? only asking as i got some too but didn't want to risk damaging them on my levo ?plus where u put the magnet as they centre lock ?

 

[Jpzeroday]

I run XM1501 on my Levo and on a Yeti SB130.

They are tough wheels, without the added weight of the eBike specific hub. I believe the rims themselves are the same as the eBike model.

I have been absolutely smashing these wheels over fast, steep, and rocky terrain. With cushcore and LOW pressures, not a single rim ding, not dents, and true.

I believe Spesh utilizes the same 54T ratchet on the S-Works model? The additional engagement is a huge addition for technical uphilling is rocky, ledgy terrain.

 

[nobbyq]

how did you get round the magnet fitting problem and centerlock discs ?

 

[Rich-Baillon]

BTW, I turn 50 in September...

still a young lad then

 

[Rich-Baillon]

Wow ... that bike is > £7000 list price in the UK. Not capable ..... ???!!!

There are always better components - I wanted the S-Works version but was sold out so will upgrade my expert to equiv or probably better spec.

 

[Rich-Baillon]

For this bike’s intended and potential use, the stock RS suspension was not capable. The Fox upgrade has made this bike a beast. In the past three weeks I have had mine on three iconic black diamond trails in the Western USA:

Downieville Downhill: 28 miles w 3800’ in California

Relive 'Downieville Down After Packer Saddle Up'

The Hurl Cottonwood/Blue Diamond Las Vegas 30 miles w 3000’ in Nevada

Relive 'Techno & Hurl 30mi for 3k’ with 3 bars'

Two Elks and Game Creek Vail 25 miles w 4200’ in Colorado

Relive 'Game Creek, Two Elks Loop Minturn/Vail 25mis for 4'

View attachment 16754

View attachment 16755

View attachment 16756

I’m also getting 180mm of drop now from a OneUp 2.0 post.

The stock Roval wheels were not up to the challenge, either. Upgraded to DT Swiss XM1501 w 54t Ratchet. Maxxis Minion 2.6” DHRii front (16.5psi) AND rear (18.5psi) with Cushcore. Loads of traction and smashing chunky gnar fast & hard-proof. Downieville and the Nevada desert are ragged and janky riding. This combo holds up w no flats in 400+ miles so far.

TyreWiz makes tire pressure management easy for consistency.

Hi Could I ask if the rake on the 36 is 44 or 51mm?

 

[Jpzeroday]

I went with 51mm offset. Considered 44mm.

If I had it to do over, I would go with 44mm. My yeti is 44 and I ‘lunch rided’ it, too (+10mm fork). Slows down the steering, more stable. 51mm is not so leveraged as to be twitchy, though.

Btw, if you are looking for a dpx2 to upgrade with, keep an eye on pinkbike if you are in NA. Those and the xm1501 wheels are both common take offs from yeti sb130s and they work on the Levo well. I got both of mine that way. A dpx2 for $300 and the dts wheels for $850 (set).

The wheels were six bolt, btw. Straight swap of brake rotors and magnet assembly.

 

[Binhill1]

That is a real bummer! I haven't purchased my first emtb quite yet...tossing between Levo and Rocky Mountain Altitude. Posts like this are concern for..well...all emtb's to be honest. At least Spec. have large dealer network. Hard to choose. Good luck with your issue.

Same myself went from Nicolai to Merida 160, in the end got Levo expert immpresed but early days yet 10 runs on it .My biggest phobia is the mess it gets in or the difficulty in the cleaning of it not easy getting mud off with a cloth used to just using a hose The more you read the harder the choice gets.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Well bad news...one day after the last big ride I described above, I have a dead motor.

Observations:

1. On the Downieville climb, ambient temps 25-33C (77-91f), ~2500’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 84C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

2. On the Two Elks climb, ambient temps 21-34C (70-93f), over 2000’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 82C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

During both rides, at no time did Mission Control nor the bike give a warning. Mission control noted no system health issues.

Within 4.5 miles of riding after the last ride, the motor failed with free spooling/slippage under power.

Bike is at LBS for motor replacement.

Three significant concerns:

1. Reliability of this bike once out of warranty.
2. Risk of Motor failure in remote location.
3. Potential negative impact of heat on battery reliability over time (that’s a lot of heat rising through the battery compartment).

I have two potential hypothesis:
1. Brose 2.1 and/or battery has heat management problems.
2. 19’ Levo carbon frame has heat management issues.

I have a Merida e160 900e that has over 1000 miles, a significant portion of that mileage has been high ambient heat riding 40C+ in the SW USA Deserts. That bike has a Shimano e8000 on an aluminum frame with an external battery. No reliability issues and it has endured heavier duty cycles than my ‘19 Levo.

I did note that the 2020 Merida eONE Sixty 900e 10k ( carbon frame and internal battery) has additional heat management features (frame venting). Seems they’ve observed an issue with heat in their development process.

I have a Decoy CF Pro Race on order. I am concerned that a carbon frame and internal battery are not a reliable configuration for heavy eMTB riding.

Well bad news...one day after the last big ride I described above, I have a dead motor.

Observations:

1. On the Downieville climb, ambient temps 25-33C (77-91f), ~2500’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 84C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

2. On the Two Elks climb, ambient temps 21-34C (70-93f), over 2000’ of climbing in first 5 miles, motor temp reached 82C per Mission Control. Power delivery became erratic.

During both rides, at no time did Mission Control nor the bike give a warning. Mission control noted no system health issues.

Within 4.5 miles of riding after the last ride, the motor failed with free spooling/slippage under power.

Bike is at LBS for motor replacement.

Three significant concerns:

1. Reliability of this bike once out of warranty.
2. Risk of Motor failure in remote location.
3. Potential negative impact of heat on battery reliability over time (that’s a lot of heat rising through the battery compartment).

I have two potential hypothesis:
1. Brose 2.1 and/or battery has heat management problems.
2. 19’ Levo carbon frame has heat management issues.

I have a Merida e160 900e that has over 1000 miles, a significant portion of that mileage has been high ambient heat riding 40C+ in the SW USA Deserts. That bike has a Shimano e8000 on an aluminum frame with an external battery. No reliability issues and it has endured heavier duty cycles than my ‘19 Levo.

I did note that the 2020 Merida eONE Sixty 900e 10k ( carbon frame and internal battery) has additional heat management features (frame venting). Seems they’ve observed an issue with heat in their development process.

I have a Decoy CF Pro Race on order. I am concerned that a carbon frame and internal battery are not a reliable configuration for heavy eMTB riding.

More Bad News
2019 Turbo Levo S Works Brose Mag S

Two motor failures in less than 500 total miles belt failure both times. It gets worse. Motors are on back order! Can you say paranoia?

 

[Utah Rider]

The motor heat is not related to the failure. The bike derates first by limiting the voltage to the motor and then also limiting top speed. It is seamless. I have old and new motors. They work the same as far as derate goes. My experience has been to not use turbo when it is really hot out. It will send you to derate much faster and then you will basically stay there until you take the load off by going downhill. When you are in derate it will basically double your normal riding distance which is nice. My first motor stripped out at 3200 miles. I routinely do 10 mile continuous climbs before coming back down so I can easily tell when the bike kicks in the derate.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Motor was on back order. Specialized sent a whole bike instead. I took the opportunity to upgrade to an S-Works.