• Warning!!

    Riding a tuned or deristricted EMTB is not a trivial offence and can have serious legal consequences. Also, many manufacturers can detect the use of a tuning device or deristricting method and may decline a repair under warranty if it was modified from the intended original specification. Deristricting EMTB's can also add increased loads for motors and batteries. Riding above the local law limit may reclassify the bike as a low-powered bike, requiring insurance, registration and a number plate.

    Be aware of your local country laws. Many laws prohibit use of modified EMTB's. It is your responsibility to check local laws. Ignoring it, has potential implications to trail access, and risk of prosecution in the event of an accident.

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    We advise members great caution. EMTB Forums accepts no liability for any content or advice given here. 


Bosch CX4...Displays, Apps, and Stuff Affecting Tuners

arTNC

Member
Feb 1, 2024
240
281
Texas
I have a simple question but maybe not possibly simply answered. So many threads here with issues of error codes, shutdowns, etc. with some of the Bosch controller and display systems available with derestriction devices. I have a Gen II Trek Rail 7 with the simple Purion display. I use a VOLspeed tuner with no issues whatsoever.

Now, I know VOLspeed says their unit will not work with the "Smart System" and such, but I've been wondering why the Purion setup works fine with the VOLspeed and Speed Box units. I've even had my Rail hooked up later to the Bosch software system to eliminate that battery conservation option if you have a headlight...which I don't and won't. My VOLspeed unit was hooked up when this was done, and apparently the update software didn't notice or react.

So, is it just internal components in the motor, the display model/design, or what that causes the Bosch update to kind of "catch" the presence of a tuner? It seems the simple Purion setup is immune to this. When the bike was new at the beginning of the year, I had all the maximum possible values set at that time and only went back later to do the headlight battery conservation option removal.

And along this line, why is the Flow App, Smart System, etc. so important? For me, once the system values are set to max, I can't see any other reason to reconnect to the Bosch software. That battery/headlight deal I did was actually kind of unimportant to me, but it gave me a chance to see if the tuner would be noticed. I get that owners can play with their personal parameters at will, but is this a big deal? And understand I'm not being judgemental toward those who want to play with such things, but it seems like it opened a can of worms for those who want to add a tuner.

And maybe I'm missing some level of awesomeness with these more sophisticated, newer systems that are available now, so understand I'm not claiming to be some kind of guru in this issue. And maybe my Purion display/system will self destruct tomorrow like the message device in all of those Mission Impossible movies and TV shows. :oops:
 

JP-NZ

E*POWAH Elite
Feb 17, 2022
1,195
910
Christchurch - New Zealand
Its a pretty long answer but I'll try my best in layman's terms. The purion system began in 2017 its not able to be upgraded hence why your chip works regardless. The advent of the smart system in 2022 means Bosch has a fully connected hence "smart" system. Just like upgrading apps and OS on your computer or mobile the Flow app and smart system has upgrades pushed through. The motor, battery, display and controller all receive updates through the flow app, rather than having to visit your LBS.

Obviously as technology increases the ability of the software to detect "derestricting" is heightened. To answer your question about the flow app being important is the same as why Apple or Google say you must upgrade software on your phone. The flow app (through the smart system) introduces updates and features all the time. It also fixes bugs and issues the previous software may have had for some users.

Sure you don't "need" to update but there maybe a feature that you really want and Bosch adds it to an upgrade. This happened for me last year when Bosch enabled Heart Rate to be displayed from my apple watch on the Kiox screen.

hth
 

arTNC

Member
Feb 1, 2024
240
281
Texas
Thanks for that response, @JP-NZ. You mention "bugs". We've mainly sold Purion Rails at the shop, so not a lot of hands on experience with the Smart System. The other stuff we've sold is Specialized and Santa Cruz. What kind of "bugs" are people seeing? The Rails we've gone through have had no issues at all...again, no Smart Systems. Like I said, no dissin' people's experiences with the other systems.
 

JP-NZ

E*POWAH Elite
Feb 17, 2022
1,195
910
Christchurch - New Zealand
Thanks for that response, @JP-NZ. You mention "bugs". We've mainly sold Purion Rails at the shop, so not a lot of hands on experience with the Smart System. The other stuff we've sold is Specialized and Santa Cruz. What kind of "bugs" are people seeing? The Rails we've gone through have had no issues at all...again, no Smart Systems. Like I said, no dissin' people's experiences with the other systems.
Just like Mobile OS sometimes when updates roll out they can cause bugs for some users. Trek had a particularly bad one that took Bosch a month to fix. It doubled distance on all rides so your odometer was wrong and no way to wind back the distance. As seen below


Thankfully the above didnt affect me as I don't update software on release. Once I saw some users have issues I was VERY glad I didn't update. I did update when the correct update was released though. With all things as you add more technology it creates more issues. You won't have a choice in the Bosch realm though as sooner or later all systems will be "smart".
 

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