Levo Gen 3 BELT FAILURE

[salko]

Hi as long as everyone is talking about Brose 2.1 motors and causes for failures I have a question.

I have a 2019 Turbo Levo Expert and I am on my 3rd motor. It has been performing well for a while now but lately, it seems to accelerate after I stop pedaling on mostly semi-flat terrain. I don't think I had noticed that in the past and was not sure if that was some firmware update?
Is this possibly the start of another motor failure? My warranty expires in November of this year so I would like to take care of it before that time or before there might be a failure.

Haven't you heard of warranty extension to 4 years for motor on MY19-20 Levos?

 

[MTBGUY65]

Haven't you heard of warranty extension to 4 years for motor on MY19-20 Levos?

I have and I purchased my bike in November of 2018. Does that mean my warranty expires in November of 2021 or 2022?
Also, that still doesn't answer my question on the behavior of my motor. I have already had two motor failures and not looking to get stuck out on the trail again with another motor failure if I can be proactive.
Thank you for your question.

 

[Squamish Sucks]

I have and I purchased my bike in November of 2018. Does that mean my warranty expires in November of 2021 or 2022?
Also, that still doesn't answer my question on the behavior of my motor. I have already had two motor failures and not looking to get stuck out on the trail again with another motor failure if I can be proactive.
Thank you for your question.

4 years after your purchase date… so 2022.

and you will get stuck out on the trail when the motor fails, just hope it’s when you’re on a downhill back to your end point. There is no way to know when it’s going to happen.

 

[MTBGUY65]

4 years after your purchase date… so 2022.

and you will get stuck out on the trail when the motor fails, just hope it’s when you’re on a downhill back to your end point. There is no way to know when it’s going to happen.

I am fully aware that there is no way to know when the motor is going to fail as I have already experienced two motor failures. My question still remains is the behavior that I have described initially an indication of a pending failure? Thanks again for your response.

 

[salko]

If the motor accelerates after you stop pedaling this sounds like a problem with a torque sensor and you will most probably get a new motor to fix the issue ... Would suggest to get this problem checked with your LBS.

 

[MTBGUY65]

If the motor accelerates after you stop pedaling this sounds like a problem with a torque sensor and you will most probably get a new motor to fix the issue ... Would suggest to get this problem checked with your LBS.

Thank you for your informative response.
On another note, I am planning to drive down the Cali coastline in the fall and was wondering if there are some good E-Mountainbike-friendly areas that are near you?

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Hi as long as everyone is talking about Brose 2.1 motors and causes for failures I have a question.

I have a 2019 Turbo Levo Expert and I am on my 3rd motor. It has been performing well for a while now but lately, it seems to accelerate after I stop pedaling on mostly semi-flat terrain. I don't think I had noticed that in the past and was not sure if that was some firmware update?
Is this possibly the start of another motor failure? My warranty expires in November of this year so I would like to take care of it before that time or before there might be a failure.

High Rock Ruti

My 2022 Pro (very low mileage) started over running too. This is a familiar symptom with Specialized, I'm sure someone can source it. Just guessing but, seems more likely software than mechanical, but this bike has both problems, of course over running is still running and dead motor is not!

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[zorro77]

Apparently Blevo has just created the new app for 2022,s as of July 1. Their app changes cut parameters and requires a hard wired pig tail on TCU

Hi, I didn't understand, can you explain me better?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Apparently Blevo has just created the new app for 2022,s as of July 1. Their app changes cut parameters and requires a hard wired pig tail on TCU

Considering Paolo started his thread saying it wouldn't work on the 2nd July, this seems somewhat unlikely !

Are you thinking of egenesis ? They used to sell an alternate TCU for motor tuning.

 

[Bearing Man]

I am fully aware that there is no way to know when the motor is going to fail as I have already experienced two motor failures. My question still remains is the behavior that I have described initially an indication of a pending failure? Thanks again for your response.

Sadly, this is usually a good sign that the end is nigh! It can be caused by a seizing crankshaft needle roller bearing or a failing sprag bearing causing drag between the torque sensor and crankshaft. In this video I am balancing the power of the motor against the back brake. If I let go of the back brake the motor will accelerate hard and cut out when it reaches the speed limiter. (great fun if you're coming up to a mountain drop-off or a road junction!)

 

[Budi]

Hi Guys ! New member here.
I was wondering if the failure was not partly due to the bad cooling of the motor also.
I have a 2021 Levo, not the 2022 model but I have the updated firmware. My belt broke 2 days ago.
Just a few days before braking I noticed the motor was super hot at the end of my ride at 85 degrees Celcius.
If the belt has to undergo this kind of temperature often, is it not likely to weaken the belt?

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi Guys ! New member here.
I was wondering if the failure was not partly due to the bad cooling of the motor also.
I have a 2021 Levo, not the 2022 model but I have the updated firmware. My belt broke 2 days ago.
Just a few days before braking I noticed the motor was super hot at the end of my ride at 85 degrees Celcius.
If the belt has to undergo this kind of temperature often, is it not likely to weaken the belt?

We do see some belts with signs of heat damage, but these are usually ones that have not been lubricated properly after being changed. @Zimmerframe had some interesting shots from a thermal imaging camera showing motor temperatures.
85 °C is not really that hot for a drive belt, automotive belts will usually be running way in excess of 100 °C. Good thinking though

 

[Rosemount]

Sadly, this is usually a good sign that the end is nigh! It can be caused by a seizing crankshaft needle roller bearing or a failing sprag bearing causing drag between the torque sensor and crankshaft. In this video I am balancing the power of the motor against the back brake. If I let go of the back brake the motor will accelerate hard and cut out when it reaches the speed limiter. (great fun if you're coming up to a mountain drop-off or a road junction!)

Motor on my Kenevo was doing similar .
Stop pedaling , it wanted to keep driving . Lasted a cpl of months then the blender noise when something let go .

New motor = $190 for an hours work to replace [ 2nd hand bike ] . Normal labour cost 1 hour $80 - $100 .

 

[Budi]

We do see some belts with signs of heat damage, but these are usually ones that have not been lubricated properly after being changed. @Zimmerframe had some interesting shots from a thermal imaging camera showing motor temperatures.
85 °C is not really that hot for a drive belt, automotive belts will usually be running way in excess of 100 °C. Good thinking though

Thanks Bearing man!
What do you think is the main reason for these premature failures? Too much strain? Do you think it's better to not ride the bike at full power to avoid trouble (like 90% max in turbo)?
Thanks.

 

[Bearing Man]

Just a quick question, are you sure it's the belt that has snapped or the sprag bearing that's failed? Both have the same symptom but different causes.

 

[Budi]

Just a quick question, are you sure it's the belt that has snapped or the sprag bearing that's failed? Both have the same symptom but different causes.

No, I'm not sure actually. Heard a noise while climbing and then the motor was spinning without assistance and it was blocked when rolling the bike back. The motor had less than 400 miles.

 

[nasamorpheus]

It is interesting that people still buying that bikes, I believe they cant be so good to compensate motor failures in my opinion.

 

[Bearing Man]

No, I'm not sure actually. Heard a noise while climbing and then the motor was spinning without assistance and it was blocked when rolling the bike back. The motor had less than 400 miles.

Does sound like a belt. Did all your motors do exactly the same thing?

 

[Budi]

Does sound like a belt. Did all your motors do exactly the same thing?

Thanks, the bike is pretty new so 1st motor failure for me.

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks, the bike is pretty new so 1st motor failure for me.

In that case may I wish you better luck for the next one!

 

[MTBGUY65]

4 years after your purchase date… so 2022.

and you will get stuck out on the trail when the motor fails, just hope it’s when you’re on a downhill back to your end point. There is no way to know when it’s going to happen.

I spoke with my LBS and they tried to tell me that the Specialized warranty was extended to 2 years after your last motor replacement. My reading of the warranty is that the extended warranty is 4 years from the date you purchased the bike no matter how many motors you have to have replaced. Does anyone interpret that any differently?
I could be going on my 3rd replacement.

 

[Bearing Man]

I spoke with my LBS and they tried to tell me that the Specialized warranty was extended to 2 years after your last motor replacement. My reading of the warranty is that the extended warranty is 4 years from the date you purchased the bike no matter how many motors you have to have replaced. Does anyone interpret that any differently?
I could be going on my 3rd replacement.

Not sure if this is still relevant?

 

[MTBGUY65]

Not sure if this is still relevant? View attachment 68073

Yes I have that same document and that is how I interpret the warranty. Just wanting to confirm before I speak with my LBS again.

 

[salko]

New motor cannot shorten extended warranty.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Rather than start another thread I'll jump in here. @Bearing Man, Any way to determine if it's a Sprague clutch vs. a belt without taking it apart? MY 22 Pro has been over running for a while now. It's motor #2 and my warranty expired in May. It threw a code for motor failure-Belt on Turbo Studio, but it's still running as it was.

I was going to order a belt kit from your US affiliate, but I'm concerned it might be the clutch. This is my second Levo and for what ever reason, I never get more than a year/1000 miles out of a motor. I can get a discounted motor from Specialized but I figure I'll be in the same place again soon enough.

 

[Bearing Man]

Rather than start another thread I'll jump in here. @Bearing Man, Any way to determine if it's a Sprague clutch vs. a belt without taking it apart? MY 22 Pro has been over running for a while now. It's motor #2 and my warranty expired in May. It threw a code for motor failure-Belt on Turbo Studio, but it's still running as it was.

I was going to order a belt kit from your US affiliate, but I'm concerned it might be the clutch. This is my second Levo and for what ever reason, I never get more than a year/1000 miles out of a motor. I can get a discounted motor from Specialized but I figure I'll be in the same place again soon enough.

It's not always possible to tell between a belt failure and clutch bearing failure, but you do often get some clues. If you pedal and there is a whirring sound, the drive belt is still intact but has stripped its teeth off. During this scenario, the bike may even feel like it's still assisting slightly and it's very tempting to try and ride it home still switched on... This turns the belt to carbon dust that gets throughout your motor, damaged and eventually destroys the planetary gears and drive belt sprag bearing etc.
If the motor loses drive and the bike cannot be pushed backwards, this is a snapped belt that has tried to double over and wrap around the large belt pully and jammed. This is quite common.
If the belt snaps and does not get jammed, you will loose drive totally, there maybe a crack sound when the belt goes, but after that there will be no sound, but you should still be able to pedal.
If a sprag bearing fails gradually, you may hear some cracking and popping coming from the motor first. Then if the drive pully sprag bearing fails totally you will lose all assistance but still be able to pedal (exactly like the snapped but un-jammed belt scenario).
If the crankshaft sprag bearing fails, your pedals will just spin back and forth without moving the bike. However, if you have walk assist, this will still work.

 

[irie]

Wow, that's a pretty comprehensive reply

 

[rzr]

So i had torque sensor issues on my Levo22, sometimes Levo was getting crazy and was pushing me hard for 5-10 secs (once per week) even when I wasn't pedalling ! but more often (almost on every ride there was a moment like this), on climbs, I felt like I'm receiving HALF the power I should.
Finally (after around 3000km) I stripped belt's teeth I believe, there was a moaning/whirling sound from the motor, but almost no assistance. then I stopped my holidays - motor changed in 2 weeks.

 

[kawamaha]

So i had torque sensor issues on my Levo22, sometimes Levo was getting crazy and was pushing me hard for 5-10 secs even when I wasn't pedalling ...

me too!
I changed the torque sensor and noticed an almost gone sprag bearing (Levo18).
So I put in new sprag bearings and a new belt...

 

[Bearing Man]

Motor run-on can be caused by a failing sprag clutch bearing that is jamming and/or a crankshaft that feels tight to turn backwards, caused by the right hand needle roller bearing failing.