Battery Life - 2023 Trance X Advanced E+ Elite

[Drewf]

I have the Elite 3 and this bike's battery life is suprisingly low in my opinion. Elite has a 400Wh battery, but my 2020 Trek Rail 5 with a 500Wh seems to last way longer. I know it depends on the mode and terrain, but to me the Elite 3 400Wh battery life seems super low. I had a 100% full charge yesterday and rode in full power mode for 10 miles yesterday and ended the ride with 48%. I decided not to charge it that night to see how far I could ride it today on another trail...today the battery was at 48% at the start of my second ride. I was in sport mode and made it 5.5 miles before the battery was dead. On my Trek Rail with a 500Wh battery in EMTB mode(which is one step below full turbo mode) I can get 3-4 similar rides in easily. Maybe my expectations are too high? Just curious what other Elite owners think of their battery life.
(note: corrected Wh vs MWh )

 

[Montana St Alum]

I have the Elite 3 and this bike's battery life is suprisingly low in my opinion. Elite has a 400MWh battery, but my 2020 Trek Rail 5 with a 500MWh seems to last way longer. I know it depends on the mode and terrain, but to me the Elite 3 400MWh battery life seems super low. I had a 100% full charge yesterday and rode in full power mode for 10 miles yesterday and ended the ride with 48%. I decided not to charge it that night to see how far I could ride it today on another trail...today the battery was at 48% at the start of my second ride. I was in sport mode and made it 5.5 miles before the battery was dead. On my Trek Rail with a 500MWh battery in EMTB mode(which is one step below full turbo mode) I can get 3-4 similar rides in easily. Maybe my expectations are too high? Just curious was other Elite owners think of their battery life.

I'm a first time owner of an ebike, also on the Elite 3, so my only comparison is my Ego lawn mower. Kidding aside, and based on my expectations I'm impressed. But, I use my bike in a way designed to get in my typical rides, but at a lower heart rate. Between yesterday and today, I rode just under 24 miles and got in just under 2400 feet of climbing. At the end of that I had 55% left. I'm 160 pounds. Having researched other bikes, though, I would expect the Rail to have better range.

 

[Julie_X1]

Did you just get the bike?

I found my Fuel EXe’s battery life seemed to significantly improve after the first few charges.

 

[Drewf]

I'm a first time owner of an ebike, also on the Elite 3, so my only comparison is my Ego lawn mower. Kidding aside, and based on my expectations I'm impressed. But, I use my bike in a way designed to get in my typical rides, but at a lower heart rate. Between yesterday and today, I rode just under 24 miles and got in just under 2400 feet of climbing. At the end of that I had 55% left. I'm 160 pounds. Having researched other bikes, though, I would expect the Rail to have better range.

Your battery usage sound reasonable to me but what mode were you in? Sport mode?

 

[Drewf]

Did you just get the bike?

I found my Fuel EXe’s battery life seemed to significantly improve after the first few charges.

No I have had it for over a month and I have 12 charge cycles and I thought I had about 200 miles on the bike but i just checked the bike setup in the Giant Ride Control app and it says I have "12 miles" on the bike. Something isnt right. haha.

 

[Montana St Alum]

Your battery usage sound reasonable to me but what mode were you in? Sport mode?

I'm probably not a typical case.
I'm a long time mountain biker and got the ebike to reduce HR stress on hard rides in Utah, as I'm 70. I'll still get into a high HR, but use the ebike for lower level exercise and recovery rides. Almost all of our rides start at 7000' and go to 10,000' and I probably need to dial it back - or so says my wife and every doctor.
I think I have the maximum set at 60Nm, 200% and 5 on the Launch. I'm usually in level 2 (can't remember what that is called) and I think I have that set at 30NM, maybe 100% and 2 on Launch. Plenty of power to drop me from HR Zone 5 to Zone 3, which is my goal.
But I'm thinking I'll be able to get 30 mile rides in the Wasatch with 4000' of climbing based on my experience so far on the internal alone pretty easily.
Actually, I just checked. My settings are:
Eco 50%, 20NM, Launch 1
Tour 75%, 30NM, Launch 2
Active 100%, 40NM, Launch 2
Sport 150%, 50NM, Launch 3
Power 200%, 60NM, Launch 5
So far, I'm usually in 1 or 2 and I use 3 for a particularly heinous climb. I used Power the other day for about 3 miles to outrun a thunderstorm that rolled in. I was glad to have the power!

 

[Montana St Alum]

Also, I posted this on the 20th so maybe it will be helpful.
"I rode 8.66 miles, 1389 feet of climbing all in "Sport" which was set to 125% Support, 40NM, and 3 on Launch. HR was much lower than on my mountain bike (zone 3 Vs. zone 5), and the ride was completed in about 75% of the time.
I used 35% battery (from 93% to 58%).

It takes an hour to charge back up from 58% to 88%."

 

[Drewf]

Thanks all for the feedback. Perhaps the Trek tune for "eMTB" mode on my Rail does some auto detect power needed to extend battery life and I have been using "sport mode" mainly on the Elite so it probably sucks more battery juice than I need. I might try the "auto" mode that the Elite defaults to when you first power it on and see what the results are on battery consumption.

The most disapppinting thing that I just discovered tonight while looking at my bike settings in the Giant Ride Control app is that my total miles riden is gone and has reset to "12 miles". I was pretty sure I was near or over 200 miles already. Its disappointing because I wanted to know how many miles I rode this season. Guess I need to contact Giant support or the bike shop about it.

 

[jeanmarc]

Also, I posted this on the 20th so maybe it will be helpful.
"I rode 8.66 miles, 1389 feet of climbing all in "Sport" which was set to 125% Support, 40NM, and 3 on Launch. HR was much lower than on my mountain bike (zone 3 Vs. zone 5), and the ride was completed in about 75% of the time.
I used 35% battery (from 93% to 58%).

It takes an hour to charge back up from 58% to 88%."

Glad to see someone else using the e-mtb to control HR. I’m 3 years younger than you but I find redlining the HR in zone5 isn’t such a good idea anymore.

 

[Drewf]

Battery observations riding on "Sport" mode.
I did a 10 mile ride yesterday with 841 ft elevation using Sport mode with 100% battery and ended the ride on 54% battery.
This morning starting with 54% battery I did the same exact loop and only made it 6.5 miles before the battery was at 3% and forced me into the lowest assist mode. I made it maybe another mile and the assist turned off completely.

So it seems that the last 30% of battery life goes faster than the first 30%. Otherwise I should have been able to do the same loop with 8% battery left if you just go by the numbers.

 

[Lee Dove]

With a " 400MWh" battery the weight must be massive so that will not help. A 500kwh battery is about 2kg so yours must be at least 1.6 tons ?

 

[Drewf]

With a " 400MWh" battery the weight must be massive so that will not help. A 500kwh battery is about 2kg so yours must be at least 1.6 tons ?

Ok very funny.
Wh = watt-hour
kWh = kilowatt-hour
MWh = megawatt-hour
So that means the EnergyPak Smart 400 is a 400Wh battery. I edited my orignal post for accuracy. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Montana St Alum]

We meant what you knew!

 

[trailaddict]

t seems that the last 30% of battery life goes faster than the first 30%.

Lithium ion batteries do not discharge linear. The first and the last ten percent have a bad efficienty.
Furthermore your new battery needs at least five full cycles from 100 > 0 percent to reveal its full performance.
My advice: plan your ride with at least 10% spare, better 20% so you can enjoy the sport without worrying running out of juice

 

[Montana St Alum]

Furt

Never Fully Discharge Your Battery​

hermore your new battery needs at least five full cycles from 100 > 0 percent to reveal its full performance.

Though I've seen suggestions to fully CHARGE a new battery before you ride it for the first 5 cycles, I thought you weren't supposed to discharge completely.

"You should also make sure to fully charge your new bike/battery for its first five charge cycles."

"Never Fully Discharge Your Battery"

How To Charge Your E-Bike Battery Properly - ReCharged Commute

When you finally get your hands on your new electric bike, you obviously want to start riding immediately. I mean, who wouldn’t? But, to get …

rechargedcommute.com

 

[trailaddict]

The BMS will prevent feom comoletely discharging the battery. Just ride until its empty.

And the five times is a recommendation from Giant. It has been discuased a while ago. If you use the search feature of this forum or google for it you should find it.

 

[Bigtuna00]

Bosch E-MTB mode is super efficient, given the power it offers. That's not a good one to compare to IMO.

Keep in mind the Elite 3 is heavy. It's probably only a few pounds lighter than your Rail. All that being said, your range sounds reasonable. I would not expect to get more than 15 miles in "turbo" mode with that bike. I realize you said your second ride was in a lower mode. The real question is, how much lower? Did you change the settings? By default Sport mode is still pretty powerful (only 16% less power) so it's still going to eat the battery.

 

[Drewf]

Bosch E-MTB mode is super efficient, given the power it offers. That's not a good one to compare to IMO.

I now realize you are correct 100%. Bosch did an amazing job with their e-mtb mode.

I rode today and was happily surprised that the "active" mode (assist level 3) was more than enough for the trail I was riding and I got much better battery life. I did try "auto" mode on another ride but it sucked as much battery as full "power" mode. I have also realized "sport" mode is more power than I need. Its super fun mode, I ride fast but my heart rate stays too low.

The Elite is a fun bike. I think my Elite 3 was 8lbs-ish lighter than my Rail 5 and after swapping out some components its even lighter. I can feel the difference for sure.

The EnergyPak Smart 400 is new battery technology and allows the power to run the full 85Nm motor with a smaller size battery. I think Giant might just need to fine tune it a bit. Hopefully we get some firmware updates to improve performance.

 

[trailaddict]

You can use the app to fine tune the modes. I've turned down torque to 50/60/70nm and launch to 2/2/2 on the first three modes to save battery and have a even more matural ride. Mode 4 and 5 then release the full power of the motor only when its necessary.

 

[misxif]

I picked up an Elite 2 last week, and today I did a range test. The battery had not yet gone through the first cycles which are said to maximise its performance, but I did the ride with the battery fully charged.

Here are the stats for the ride, according to the Giant App:
Distance: 74.5km (46.3 miles)
Climb: 1,643m (5,390 ft)
Battery remaining at end: 25%

Please note that the Giant app seems to exaggerate a bit the figures. I was running a parallel app (Komoot), which showed a distance of 60.7km (37.7 miles) and a climb of 1,430m (4,700ft). Both the Giant and Komoot app relied on my phone for information, so maybe the sensitivity to small changes in course and height explains the difference. Normally GPS devices underestimate distance (because they cut the corners) and the climb measurements are subject to changes during the ride in barometric pressure.

Let's say a distance of 65km (around 40 miles) and a climb of 1,550m (around 5,100 ft). 75% usage of a 400W battery.

The use of a battery depends on a lot of factors, including riding style. This was a range, not a speed test, so I used the lowest pedal-assist setting for nearly all climbs and aimed to minimise the use of the battery. On flat (or close to flat), and on downhill of course, I used no pedal assist. This ride used a lot of energy and leg power from me. Also, I was riding mainly on fire trails, so I did not have to contend often with difficult surfaces, roots or rocks, which require more power.

The hard facts are:

I weigh around 72kg (say 160 pounds) , but after I had loaded myself up with gear I clocked close to 83kg (a little over 180 lb).

The ambient temperature during the ride was around 30˚c (say 85˚F).

I have re-programmed the SyncDrive motor settings to the following:

Eco: 50% assistance; 20NM torque; level 2 launch
Tour: 100% assistance; 30NM torque; level 3 launch
Active: 150% assistance; 40NM torque; level 4 launch
Sport: 250% assistance; 60NM torque; level 6 launch
Power: 400% assistance; 85NM torque; level 7 launch

(As you can see, I have programmed the lower settings for minimal assistance, aiming for maximum range.)

I have no experience of e-bike riding, so I rode like a normal MTB rider, and my first reaction to a harder climb was to use a lower gear (not e-power). I didn't switch on e-assistance until I was already using a large ring on the cassette. My goal was range, not speed. When I did use e-assistance, it was nearly always Eco mode (just 50% assistance, and 20NM, in my case). I only moved to a higher mode when it was a steep climb on difficult terrain. I never used Power mode on this ride, and I used Sport mode only for a few minutes in total.

In conclusion, the 400W battery has a pretty good range (and this was a 6+ hour ride, including some pauses, and a hike-a-bike section when I had to haul the bike over fallen trees etc), but the battery is not adequate for a longish ride if one wants the motor to do most of the work. I'll be getting a range extender to allow me to do longer rides at higher speed, and I'll only use the 850NM power for short, fun rides, or in particularly gnarly situations.

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[Lee Dove]

That all sounds about average for an EMTB.

People seem to forget the laws of physics when talking about ebikes and battery range. Power (kwh) is used to lift a mass over a certain distance or the equivalent to move to along the flat against air resistance etc. Therefore if you take two bikes the battery range is dependent on a few factors.

1. Size of battery in Kwh
2. mass of the bike and rider.
3. amount of elevation change ( or equivalent)
4. Electrical efficiency of the motor system. This will be very similar between brands as they all use the same technology.

If you use less assistance then the range will be longer unless you run out of energy yourself
You also need to take into account the roughness of the terrain as this will slow the bike (rougher ground) as it increases.
the rolling resistance.

I would not consider cycle brand or motor make to be very significant in these calculation, hence my initial comment about it sounding average.

 

[burbler]

I picked up an Elite 2 last week, and today I did a range test. The battery had not yet gone through the first cycles which are said to maximise its performance, but I did the ride with the battery fully charged.

Here are the stats for the ride, according to the Giant App:..................................

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Great feedback and thanks for taking the time to report. I am currently sitting on the fence between the Elite and standard E Trance and just wanting to see some real time ranges in different scenario's before I pull the trigger on my first EMTB.

 

[misxif]

That all sounds about average for an EMTB.

People seem to forget the laws of physics when talking about ebikes and battery range. Power (kwh) is used to lift a mass over a certain distance or the equivalent to move to along the flat against air resistance etc. Therefore if you take two bikes the battery range is dependent on a few factors.

1. Size of battery in Kwh
2. mass of the bike and rider.
3. amount of elevation change ( or equivalent)
4. Electrical efficiency of the motor system. This will be very similar between brands as they all use the same technology.

If you use less assistance then the range will be longer unless you run out of energy yourself
You also need to take into account the roughness of the terrain as this will slow the bike (rougher ground) as it increases.
the rolling resistance.

I would not consider cycle brand or motor make to be very significant in these calculation, hence my initial comment about it sounding average.

Hello Lee, I agree with you that range obtained with an e-bike is principally a matter of physics, although the calculations are not that simple, because usually only the battery size and the rated power usage of the motor are precisely known, whereas the other conditions are very variable. Also, I don't think that it is easy to extrapolate range achievements over a variety of weights, due to the interaction with other factors (such as ride surface and elevation profile). Therefore many people like to hear examples, and do a rough-and-ready estimation of what range they are likely to achieve based on these examples.

You do not mention the bike set-up in your list of factors. The bike geometry and suspension of course make a big difference (not to mention the tyres). Regarding the electrical efficiency of the motor system, I don't think that we can assume that are all similar: The Giant Trance E+ Elite bike, covered in this thread, uses a specially-developed Yamaha motor, and this is likely to perform different to other motors, such as those from Bosch, Brose or Shimano. I expect that motor efficiency will also vary depending on the power output select. I think that there could also be other factors in play here, such as the level of resistance provided by the motor when it is at rest (which in the case of my bike does not feel like zero). We also do not know that battery efficiency is equal between different brands, which is a particular question regarding this Giant bike, since it uses a newly-developed cell for which there is hardly any real-world data.

We can roughly say that a Trance E+ Elite with a 200w range extender will have a 50% greater range, but in my case this wouldn't apply, since as the range gets longer my own personal output decreases...

 

[Montana St Alum]

Therefore many people like to hear examples, and do a rough-and-ready estimation of what range they are likely to achieve based on these examples.

Yeah, this data from various people is valuable. I have found the Elite 3 to have no noticeable resistance to pedaling with no motor input. When I ride with my wife, I usually have the motor powered off, so my range is HUGE! When I ride with my son, Not huge! So far, I don't have much range anxiety, but the snow hasn't melted out yet above about 8000', so I'm sure that will change. Electric motor output doesn't change with altitude, but my contribution sure does!

 

[misxif]

Yeah, this data from various people is valuable. I have found the Elite 3 to have no noticeable resistance to pedaling with no motor input. When I ride with my wife, I usually have the motor powered off, so my range is HUGE! When I ride with my son, Not huge! So far, I don't have much range anxiety, but the snow hasn't melted out yet above about 8000', so I'm sure that will change. Electric motor output doesn't change with altitude, but my contribution sure does!

Hi Montana St Alum, I'm still not sure about this question of resistance to pedalling, it may be just an initial impression when I turn off the motor and forget to change gear accordingly. There are certainly times when I don't feel this at all, and in general it is easy to ride the Elite without any power. I need to try and do some objective testing - where I guess that the comparison has to be a non-ebike of a similar weight (not so easy to set up, although my old iron 'city bike' is pretty close!).

Being new to e-biking, I am finding it a bit hard to get used to the "on-off" nature of the power assistance (which seems particularly noticeable in Smart/Auto mode, but which I have also felt at low-level modes when I am just trying to ride at a constant speed and effort). I had read that this Giant bike was considered to be smooth on power delivery, and better than many others in power assistance at low cadence pedalling, but I don't have a means to judge whether this is right. Has anyone here ridden the Elite and also other e-bikes and can comment on this?

I did a very different ride today, short and relatively fast. The conditions were the same as yesterday, although I was overall 10kg (22lb) lighter, since I didn't take any gear, and I rode using as much power as I felt I needed to keep up the speed, including Power mode. The Giant app analysis was:

Distance: 14.3km (8.9 miles)
Climb: 343m (1,125 ft)
Battery remaining at end: 67%
Average speed: 23kph (14.3mph)

As before, the Giant app reported a longer distance than my GPS-based Komoot app (although perhaps more accurate, since I think that the Elite has an built-in wheel rotation sensor, which may be being used). However, Komoot reported a height gain of 420m (1,380 ft). From my knowledge of this trail, I think that Komoot was wrong on the elevation gain, but this just shows that all home-produced statistics have to be taken with a pinch of salt, since the measurement devices are not very reliable.

 

[jeanmarc]

The Elite shares the same Yamaha (Syncdrive Pro) motor as recent Trance & Reign models. I find the Smart Assist (auto) mode to be impractical when riding trails.

 

[misxif]

The Elite shares the same Yamaha (Syncdrive Pro) motor as recent Trance & Reign models. I find the Smart Assist (auto) mode to be impractical when riding trails.

Yes, I turned it off after trying it for a bit.

 

[Montana St Alum]

The Elite shares the same Yamaha (Syncdrive Pro) motor as recent Trance & Reign models. I find the Smart Assist (auto) mode to be impractical when riding trails.

Ditto!

 

[Montana St Alum]

Hi Montana St Alum, I'm still not sure about this question of resistance to pedalling, it may be just an initial impression when I turn off the motor and forget to change gear accordingly. There are certainly times when I don't feel this at all, and in general it is easy to ride the Elite without any power. I need to try and do some objective testing - where I guess that the comparison has to be a non-ebike of a similar weight (not so easy to set up, although my old iron 'city bike' is pretty close!).

Being new to e-biking, I am finding it a bit hard to get used to the "on-off" nature of the power assistance (which seems particularly noticeable in Smart/Auto mode, but which I have also felt at low-level modes when I am just trying to ride at a constant speed and effort). I had read that this Giant bike was considered to be smooth on power delivery, and better than many others in power assistance at low cadence pedalling, but I don't have a means to judge whether this is right. Has anyone here ridden the Elite and also other e-bikes and can comment on this?

I did a very different ride today, short and relatively fast. The conditions were the same as yesterday, although I was overall 10kg (22lb) lighter, since I didn't take any gear, and I rode using as much power as I felt I needed to keep up the speed, including Power mode. The Giant app analysis was:

Distance: 14.3km (8.9 miles)
Climb: 343m (1,125 ft)
Battery remaining at end: 67%
Average speed: 23kph (14.3mph)

As before, the Giant app reported a longer distance than my GPS-based Komoot app (although perhaps more accurate, since I think that the Elite has an built-in wheel rotation sensor, which may be being used). However, Komoot reported a height gain of 420m (1,380 ft). From my knowledge of this trail, I think that Komoot was wrong on the elevation gain, but this just shows that all home-produced statistics have to be taken with a pinch of salt, since the measurement devices are not very reliable.

Yeah, I really don't know for sure that there's no pedaling resistance, but riding with my wife with the motor off sure feels easy.
Power delivery seems to be pretty smooth when I'm on the trail with all of it's terrain variations, but it seems less smooth when I'm on a smooth road. I'm not sure why that would be the case. Maybe that's also just a perception, but I like it. I tend toward a slow cadence in the 50-70 range as that seems to work well on my mountain bike.
That's an interesting idea, regarding the Giant app tapping into the wheel rotation sensor.
I rode with my son today - I was "overdressed and didn't want to get all sweaty and he was hitting it hard, so I used more assist than usual. I had power on my #3 setting, which is 100%, 40NM and 3 on Launch, as I recall. The ride was 12.18 miles, 1943 feet of climb and an hour 45. That used 47% battery, which surprised me. I thought it would have used less, but my HR was really nice and low, so I wasn't contributing much.

Thanks to everyone chiming in.

 

[jeanmarc]

I tend toward a slow cadence in the 50-70 range as that seems to work well on my mountain bike.

Yep, same here. Motor works well in that range and I think is quieter.