Battery cover for use without the battery

[Bac]

Does anyone know where to get a battery cover for use without the battery?

For all day shuttles, I'd love to remove the battery (save weight) so I can get a bit more sendy

Cheers in advance

 

[flash]

Check first that the frame is OK to be ridden without a battery for structural support. You don't want to snap it.

On a Fazua bike you can actually buy a storage bin to take the place of the battery/drive pack. But that's by design. If the bike can handle it then some smarty with a 3D printer might be able to make something.

Gordon

 

[Bac]

Check first that the frame is OK to be ridden without a battery for structural support. You don't want to snap it.

On a Fazua bike you can actually buy a storage bin to take the place of the battery/drive pack. But that's by design. If the bike can handle it then some smarty with a 3D printer might be able to make something.

Gordon

Good idea! Yeah I've sent SC a message to see if it can be done , so see what they come back with

 

[akirasan88]

Super interested to know about this also, the SC Bullit is surprisingly easy to pedal uphill, did 1k climb this weekend without any issues and would like to do that more often, but without the battery rather than just having it off.

 

[ElectricBiscuit]

The battery is not structural on the Heckler.

You can buy the carbon plate that fills the gap under the front triangle, but it will be of limited use since it bolts to the battery and not to the front triangle itself.

If you bought this carbon plate you'd need a way to attach it to the frame and not fall off!

You could ride the bike just fine without the battery but I'd worry about dirt getting flicked into the battery connections if running with a gaping hole under the front triangle. Maybe just some black sticky-back plastic would do the job for a few hours until you put the battery back in?

 

[aarfeldt]

3D print a cover.

 

[ElectricBiscuit]

A great idea but you'd need a printer with a fairly big bed to do it in one piece.

 

[Bac]

Here's the response from Santa Cruz

Subject: RE: Battery cover



The frame was designed with the intention of the bike being ridden with the battery installed. We have not done extensive testing on the frame with the battery removed, and dont recommend doing so. Ultimately it is your bike, and you can do what you want with it, but if any issues do arise from making a dummy battery, it would not be covered by warranty. Do so at your own risk.

Feel free to reply to this email with any questions!



Kyle B.



Rider Support Coordinator



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Prefer fewer emails from me? Click here





On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 7:28 PM,

Thanks Kyle, is this due to strength of the frame without a battery installed or due to the hole filling with dirt? Can we develop a carbon dummy battery to go in it’s place, cover the hole and replace the battery?



From: Kyle B. <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2021 2:15 pm
Subject: Battery cover



Hey Brent,



We do not recommend riding the Bullit without the battery installed. Any damage caused from doing so will void your warranty.



Feel free to reply to this email with any questions!



Kyle B.



Rider Support Coordinator



--
Prefer fewer emails from me? Click here

 

[ElectricBiscuit]

Fair! They are obliged to knock this idea back for those reasons.

That said, they also day on the offical website FAQ that you can't upgrade your engine to an EP8, which of course you can.. but again warranty out of the window...

 

[OldBean]

if its Bosch they sell just these covers...I have one for my R&M Delight they make numerous sizes to fit their batteries.

 

[kidsnare]

I was asking myself the exact same question the other day. For a 350mi/550km trip I wanted to remove the battery in order to save some weight on the rear carrier of my car. But unlike my wifes Cube emtb, you can‘t put the cover back in place without the battery on the Heckler (or Shimano in general?). Would be great to have a „dummy holder“ for transportation.

 

[bikedrd]

Just take out the battery and tape on the cover. Nothing will happen - it's separate and not structural. Same for the cover. Ignore the corporate response.

 

[flash]

I was asking myself the exact same question the other day. For a 350mi/550km trip I wanted to remove the battery in order to save some weight on the rear carrier of my car. But unlike my wifes Cube emtb, you can‘t put the cover back in place without the battery on the Heckler (or Shimano in general?). Would be great to have a „dummy holder“ for transportation.

not an issue for transport. A simple cover to protect the terminals from grime would be sufficient..

Gordon

 

[flash]

Just take out the battery and tape on the cover. Nothing will happen - it's separate and not structural. Same for the cover. Ignore the corporate response.

it almost certainly adds some structural rigidity as it mounts to a bracket. It's not just floating around in the frame. On the Fazua you need to use the blanking sleeve for this exact reason.

Gordon

 

[luna87824]

I am in the process of making an adapter, that bolts in place of the Shimano motor with BB shell, that would let you use any standard mountain bike crank set. That would let people still ride there bikes if the motor is remove for long term repairs.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Check first that the frame is OK to be ridden without a battery for structural support. You don't want to snap it.

I dont see how a removable battery would have or add any structural strength to the down tube(or is that the up tube ??) For it to reinforce the tube it would need to be secured permanently at each end.

it almost certainly adds some structural rigidity as it mounts to a bracket. It's not just floating around in the frame. On the Fazua you need to use the blanking sleeve for this exact reason.

It may not be floating in there but it isnt entirely fixed, so in effect you are suggesting the up tube(or is that the down tube) flexes in use. If the tube were to flex, that would promote cracking to form.

 

[Dr.GonzO]

Check this out: Fahrer e-bike battery cover

I made a foto for you on my scott ransom eride without the battery:

 

[R120]

Check this out: Fahrer e-bike battery cover

I made a foto for you on my scott ransom eride without the battery:

View attachment 75079

Exactly what I was going to suggest, these are a great option for when transporting a bike with internal battery.

 

[R120]

Personally I wouldn’t take the risk of riding it aggressively without the battery.

IIRC the internal batteries from Shimano weigh more than the external ones because the casings are designed to take more load/stress due to how they are integrated into the frame.

potentially getting hold of a dud battery and stripping out the guys to use as a dummy light work, but I wouldn’t ride with nothing in there

 

[kidsnare]

Check this out: Fahrer e-bike battery cover

I made a foto for you on my scott ransom eride without the battery:

View attachment 75079

Thanks, I think I‘m going to order this.

 

[blueglide]

I'm not a structural engineer but folks that say the battery is not a structural part of the bike I think are wrong. The battery is fixed at both ends by brackets mounted at upper and lower portions of the downtube. It certainly does add rigidity to the downtube and may minimize any side flex as well. Telling people to ignore the corporate response is dumb since they designed and built the bike with the battery as part of its design parameters. Not every corporate answer is a CYA (cover your ass) response to minimize liability but may be a warning not to do something the product was not intended for and subsequently it might be damaged. Like Kyle said in his email from Santa Cruz, "it's your bike and you can do what you want" but then nobody should go crying to Santa Cruz if the bike breaks.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

I'm not a structural engineer but folks that say the battery is not a structural part of the bike I think are wrong. The battery is fixed at both ends by brackets mounted at upper and lower portions of the downtube. It certainly does add rigidity to the downtube and may minimize any side flex as well. Telling people to ignore the corporate response is dumb since they designed and built the bike with the battery as part of its design parameters. Not every corporate answer is a CYA (cover your ass) response to minimize liability but may be a warning not to do something the product was not intended for and subsequently it might be damaged. Like Kyle said in his email from Santa Cruz, "it's your bike and you can do what you want" but then nobody should go crying to Santa Cruz if the bike breaks.

I think you are working on a premise that says the frame integrity is not strong when under compression. The battery has little compression strength, its just plastic*, and while I can see your angle in that you think its preventing it from folding, that would suggest the frame tube is not strong enough in the first place, even with a battery in there.
* Also it isnt fixed. I would say for it in order to be fixed, the forces acting upon it would have to be going from the top at the headtube to the bottom at the BB, and the plug in sections and those that hold the battery in place dont reach that far up or down.

 

[blueglide]

I think you are working on a premise that says the frame integrity is not strong when under compression. The battery has little compression strength, its just plastic*, and while I can see your angle in that you think its preventing it from folding, that would suggest the frame tube is not strong enough in the first place, even with a battery in there.
* Also it isnt fixed. I would say for it in order to be fixed, the forces acting upon it would have to be going from the top at the headtube to the bottom at the BB, and the plug in sections and those that hold the battery in place dont reach that far up or down.

None of that made sense. I defy anyone to compress the 504wh battery because it's plastic. It's a very rigid, heavy component. It is firmly fixed at both ends to brackets which are also firmly attached to the carbon downtube above and below the gaping hole in the downtube covered by the battery cover. I don't know if the frame is structurally strong enough to ride aggressively without the battery or not. But the battery mounted in the downtube has to offer some strength and or rigidity it would appear.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

None of that made sense. I defy anyone to compress the 504wh battery because it's plastic. It's a very rigid, heavy component. It is firmly fixed at both ends to brackets which are also firmly attached to the carbon downtube above and below the gaping hole in the downtube covered by the battery cover. I don't know if the frame is structurally strong enough to ride aggressively without the battery or not. But the battery mounted in the downtube has to offer some strength and or rigidity it would appear.

This isnt an answer attacking you personally or anything like that. And not making sense ?, you stated yourself "Im not a structural engineer but" but not taking tube integrity into account.
'Ride aggressively' : So what you are stating is the tube isnt strong enough anyway.
" has to offer some strength and or rigidity it would appear."
No it doesnt. The strength is designed into the tube shape and for the battery, or even a piece of wood to act to reinforce the tube, It WOULD NEED to be attached to the BB tube at one end and the HT at the other. Not sitting 4" down braced against an internally glued in or otherwise fixed in plastic mount
. You are effectively thinking the mounts top and bottom hold the entire strength of the bike throughout its usage and all that is preventing the tube form collapse is the strength of that bond. Thats completely wrong.


" I defy anyone to compress the 504wh battery because it's plastic"
It doesnt need to compress, it only needs to flex, either the battery itself or the mounts its attached to and if it did then the frame would flex too. Alloy doesnt like to flex,if it did it would start to crack and split. The integrity of the frame is already there, it is a 3 sided box, if it allowed the frame to flex, there wouldnt be a battery compartment in the first place.
If the frame wasnt strong enough, the frame would collapse and then the crumple would be stopped from folding completely by the battery, which in that intense situation would have limited capabilities to do so.

 

[blueglide]

This debate isn't going to be solved by us. I defer to the manufacturer who states they have not done extensive testing riding without the battery and do not recommend doing so. Again, I have no dog in this fight but if the people who designed and manufacture the bike say its not recommended I have to assume they know a whole lot more about their products design parameters than any of us on the internet not directly involved in the bikes design and production. Everyone is free to do as they like but when we dismiss advice from the company as just the corporate line we have no one to blame but ourselves if things go badly.

 

[Planemo]

I am pretty convinced that the Bosch battery on my Haibike isn't a stressed member. The bottom of the battery contains not only fairly weak electrical connectors but the surrounding housings on both the bike and battery are plastic. If Haibike needs a small amount of plastic to provide structural integrity on a main frame spar then I have bigger things to worry about on the bike. In any event, the downtube would experience just as many extension forces as compression ones, and the battery provides nothing whatsoever to prevent extension, nor torsional strength for that matter.

But as blueglide says, he is quite right that if the manufacturers won't provide a definitive answer and a rider decides to ride without a battery, it's on them.

Personally I would be happy to ride without, and because of that I would like to have a fake plastic battery or at least a cover that locates in the existing areas for when I'm using lifts.

 

[bikedrd]

I'm not a structural engineer but folks that say the battery is not a structural part of the bike I think are wrong...

I am a structural engineer. I've looked at the attachments within the frame; they can't transfer significant load.

I've worked for a number bike companies, including SC. I think their response was not CYA, just the easy answer. Really busy guys with a lot of emails to reply to. The engineers aren't doing the emails. I don't buy it.

Also I can't imagine Shimano wants their pack full of hazardous materials taking structural load.

 

[Bac]

I am a structural engineer. I've looked at the attachments within the frame; they can't transfer significant load.

I've worked for a number bike companies, including SC. I think their response was not CYA, just the easy answer. Really busy guys with a lot of emails to reply to. The engineers aren't doing the emails. I don't buy it.

Also I can't imagine Shimano wants their pack full of hazardous materials taking structural load.

Yeah I agree

It is not structural, as the frame would need to flex to take up the slack/clearance in the mounts (required for fitting the battery) before it could be load bearing, and it would only be load bearing in compression, where in fact the downtube is mostly under tension.
My bro has the Intense Tazer, very similar frame structure around the battery and it can be used with just the cover and no battery (yes it is a different battery).

It's a shame a premium brand like SC just passes on the easy answer, without giving any relevant context as to why, etc and obviously little thought given

 

[kikoborrico]

Battery isn't structural element

I have ridden without battery in bikepark ... and everything perfect

 

[Bac]

Battery isn't structural element

I have ridden without battery in bikepark ... and everything perfect

What did you use for a cover?