AWD vs Middrive.

[Got Dirt?]

I am in the market for a new ebike and am trying to figure out the best option between an all wheel drive ebike vs middrive. The bike will mainly be used on ATV and singletrack trails. Riding conditions are hardpack, sand and loose gravel in the summer and mud/snow in the winter. Some of the ATV hills are quite steep (I'm thinking 30+ degree slopes, hard to walk up.) with lots of loose rock and gravel. Here is an example:

I am looking for a fat mountain ebike with great climbing ability. Looking online, some people rave about dual hub motor (AWD) ebikes while others claim you need the gearing of a high-torque middrive (e.g. Bafang Ultra) to tackle steep hills effectively. Any advice or pros/cons from people who have ridden either or both types up steep mountain trails?

Here a couple samples of the types of bikes I am looking at:
- AWD: https://ecells.com/product/e-cells-super-monarch-crown-awd-1500-watt-52v-off-road-e-bike/
- Middrive: Highly recommended! Voyager ULTRA - AM1000 V5

Thanks for the help!!

 

[mike_kelly]

Hub-drives have a built in gearing designed for some ideal speed. It is not easy or sometimes not possible to change those gears. Mid-drives use the same gearing as the pedaling system. So with the mid-drive this means it is easy to match the motor to the terrain just like you need to match your pedaling to the terrain by shifting the gears. Many ebikes are designed for flat commuting at higher speeds. With hub-drives you are stuck with that gearing. If you want to climb you need high torque not high speed so you need lower gears to keep your legs and the motor happy. Also be aware of how heavy the bike is, You may be able to ride a heavy bike, because of the motor, but handling it off the bike can be a real pain. Lifting onto a vehicle bike rack, up stairs at a work place etc. A throttle is nice if you have to walk through boulder fields or across a stream etc.

I bought heavy emtb's for riding on steep mountainous old mining roads in Montana at altitudes up to 10,000ft. They worked but my wife was concerned on rough rock garden jeep trails that if she fell she would not be able to get the bike off of herself. It turned out to be true and we are very experienced single track riders. Flat dirt roads were no problem.
They were a real pain to get restarted if you stopped mid-climb on steep slopes. They were a real pain to get on a bike rack and forget getting them up stairs. Many of the offerings are tall and standover height is a problem for even 5' 7" riders let alone shorter. Many of the offerings have long cockpits. A lot of them seem to have old obsolete parts groups like freewheels instead of cassettes, hubs with quick releases instead of through-axles, suspension forks with limited travel and these things are more important for an ebike.
Ours came with rear shocks using springs that were made for 1500lbs, good for an elephant but not humans. I find no need for the bafang ultra the BBSHD was more than enough power. I would use a controller/dispaly that offers 9 assist levels verses one that only offers 5 levels. Up steep climbs it is nice to have the find adjustment. It is the same assist just finer steeps of control. Like the Bafang 500C which can be set or 5 or 9 assist levels. For climbing I like having the assist buttons near the grips so I don't have to take my hands off the grips on iffy sections and still be able to quickly change the assist to suit the climb.
Another issue is torque sense motors vs cadence sense. In the cadence sensing motor the bike monitors the rotation of the wheels to determine when to add assist. If you just turn the pedals with no real push it will add assist. If you are in a high assist mode by mistake and start off with a light rotation of the cranks the bike can shoot ahead right out from under you. The torque sensing determines how hard you push the cranks so you have to be pedaling with some effort before it starts to add power. It is a more smooth assist.

Bafang motor spares are a little hard to find.

I am just one data point but I would not buy a hub-drive for steep mountain climbing.